Niko Sigur

[Metro]

1 hour ago, costarg said:

Just another example and more proof that the coaching and developement at all levels, including the academies is lacking and just not on par with what we see in EU.

Well, the U Sports ability to develop a player is looking good right about now.  Why can't they be included?

[InglewoodJack]

2 hours ago, costarg said:

Just another example and more proof that the coaching and developement at all levels, including the academies is lacking and just not on par with what we see in EU.

The more I look into him, the more it seems like less of a case of a Canadian oversight and more a case of how strange his dev path has been. Whitecaps academy, high school ball, York U, Vaughan's C team, Slovenia, then Croatia, where he got a shot with the seniors because of two injuries. Based on all of this, including the fact he left Canada for Slovenia which isn't exactly known for producing elite talent, I'm more inclined to believe that when he was in Canada, he just wasn't that good, and what we're seeing now is heavily improvement + a very lucky chance he got to play for Split's senior team, which he capitalized on. 

Unless we had a fully fleshed out system like England's where even weak youth players will get a spot at some fourth division academy they can move up from, i'm not sure what we could've done to keep him here. He would've probably been spotted while with Vaughan, and his stint with the Whitecaps came before the CPL. Plus, if he did play in the CPL and developed similarly, Split could've taken him from there, instead of Slovenia. The only way we could've kept him in Canada is if the Whitecaps gave him a pro contract in 2021, which would've been a weird thing for them to do for a York U freshman. His pathway seems very similar to Kone's, if Kone had moved forward with the supposed Club Brugge offer before IMFC swept in. 

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

3 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

The more I look into him, the more it seems like less of a case of a Canadian oversight and more a case of how strange his dev path has been. Whitecaps academy, high school ball, York U, Vaughan's C team, Slovenia, then Croatia, where he got a shot with the seniors because of two injuries. Based on all of this, including the fact he left Canada for Slovenia which isn't exactly known for producing elite talent...

That was my thought when I saw his history.  It's not like there aren't knowledgeable (and opportunistic) football people around York U or the Vaughan Azzurri.  

Full credit to the kid for sticking to it and taking his chances.  Now we just need to lock in that potential. 

[CanadaFan123]

By the way, I’ve never seen a Canadian RB hit one like that. 

[Mikmacdo]

10 minutes ago, CanadaFan123 said:

By the way, I’ve never seen a Canadian RB hit one like that. 

Because hes not an actual rb lol

[Ruffian]

49 minutes ago, CanadaFan123 said:

By the way, I’ve never seen a Canadian RB hit one like that. 

You don't remember how hard Marcel de Jong could hit it?

[CanadaFan123]

21 minutes ago, Ruffian said:

You don't remember how hard Marcel de Jong could hit it?

I certainly do! Marcel De Jong was a left back though.

[Norrin Radd]

4 hours ago, CanadaFan123 said:

By the way, I’ve never seen a Canadian RB hit one like that. 

Stalteri’s first for spurs.

 

[FC_Hali]

8 hours ago, CanadaFan123 said:

By the way, I’ve never seen a Canadian RB hit one like that. 

Alistair Vs Mexico at Iceteca?

[costarg]

12 hours ago, CanadaFan123 said:

How is it proof of that if a player developed here can step into a first team in Europe? This means he beat out players developed/trained in Europe. 
 

What you mean to say is that talent identification missed this one. It happens in every country. 

The way I read this story is.... No one has heard of this guy.  No one knew he had this potential here.  He goes to EU and within 2 years is starting games in Croatia. 

My point is: I'm pretty sure he isn't the same player today than he was playing with Vaughn.  Someone saw something in him and worked with him to develop his game and confidence, that is what is missing for a lot of players here.  It's not that we just didn't spot his talent, it's that even when we sometimes do spot it, we don't help them along as well as we could, and as we've seen, they're often better off going overseas to develop and ply their trade.

We have a lot of talent here, but not enough skill to develop this talent.  Players training in europe learn automatisms that players here just aren't.  I've heard this from players that have come from Europe, players that have gone to play in Europe and people involved in the academy's and systems here.  We can toot our horns all we want and pump CPL & MLS tires all day, but it won't change the fact.  It takes more than just minutes for a player to develop.

[costarg]

11 hours ago, InglewoodJack said:

I'm more inclined to believe that when he was in Canada, he just wasn't that good, and what we're seeing now is heavily improvement + a very lucky chance he got to play for Split's senior team, which he capitalized on. 

Unless we had a fully fleshed out system like England's where even weak youth players will get a spot at some fourth division academy they can move up from, i'm not sure what we could've done to keep him here. He would've probably been spotted while with Vaughan, and his stint with the Whitecaps came before the CPL. Plus, if he did play in the CPL and developed similarly, Split could've taken him from there, instead of Slovenia. The only way we could've kept him in Canada is if the Whitecaps gave him a pro contract in 2021, which would've been a weird thing for them to do for a York U freshman. His pathway seems very similar to Kone's, if Kone had moved forward with the supposed Club Brugge offer before IMFC swept in. 

*heavily improvement* = the kid doesn't just wake up one day "heavily improved".  We're naively simplifying.  Something happened between his stint here and starting in Croatia. 

It takes good coaching, confidence instilled from a coach, minutes vs the right level of competition, timing and a quite a few dashes of good luck.

It's not about keeping the players here or spotting the talent.  It's lacking the talent and ressources to develop that talent.

[Footyeh]

7 minutes ago, costarg said:

The way I read this story is.... No one has heard of this guy.  No one knew he had this potential here.  He goes to EU and within 2 years is starting games in Croatia. 

My point is: I'm pretty sure he isn't the same player today than he was playing with Vaughn.  Someone saw something in him and worked with him to develop his game and confidence, that is what is missing for a lot of players here.  It's not that we just didn't spot his talent, it's that even when we sometimes do spot it, we don't help them along as well as we could, and as we've seen, they're often better off going overseas to develop and ply their trade.

We have a lot of talent here, but not enough skill to develop this talent.  Players training in europe learn automatisms that players here just aren't.  I've heard this from players that have come from Europe, players that have gone to play in Europe and people involved in the academy's and systems here.  We can toot our horns all we want and pump CPL & MLS tires all day, but it won't change the fact.  It takes more than just minutes for a player to develop.

I'll add to this... 

Having watched Niko's 1st team apps for Split and also some of his youth games, its funny to say but he has played better or looked more impressive in the 1st team matches than he has with the youth.  A big factor in this is the 10 other players around him.  They clearly are of a different level and help bring out the best in his abilities and/or force him to be his best.  It's crazy to think if the player in his position didn't get injured, would have even have a future at Split past this season?  Would he have come to CPL/Next Pro?  Would he have looked good there?

I think we have a number of Canadian players who I think would look very good in the MLS/some level in Europe, more so than they do in the academy, MLS Next Pro, CPL etc.  I'll use Vancouver as an example, the 1st team has players like Ryan Gauld, Julian Gressel, Cubas, Caicedo, Vite etc... all very technical players that can play some intricate/pretty football.  The 2nd team doesn't have these kinds of players outside of Habibullah/Coupland (who are both performing very well).  What happens if you give these boys minutes alongside all of those 1st team guys?  You probably get more Niko Sigur stories, more high profile young talents, more transfers to top leagues, more talent for the National Team etc.

[CanadaFan123]

Another example is Stefan Mitrovic. He was passed over by CPL but walked into a Serbian team. We have the talent here - it just needs nurtured. A team like Hajduk Split doesn’t just sign anyone - they saw that talent and nurtured it and now he’s ahead of kids who came up through their academy. 

[Kadenge]

9 hours ago, Footyeh said:

I'll add to this... 

Having watched Niko's 1st team apps for Split and also some of his youth games, its funny to say but he has played better or looked more impressive in the 1st team matches than he has with the youth.  A big factor in this is the 10 other players around him.  They clearly are of a different level and help bring out the best in his abilities and/or force him to be his best.  It's crazy to think if the player in his position didn't get injured, would have even have a future at Split past this season?  Would he have come to CPL/Next Pro?  Would he have looked good there?

I think we have a number of Canadian players who I think would look very good in the MLS/some level in Europe, more so than they do in the academy, MLS Next Pro, CPL etc.  I'll use Vancouver as an example, the 1st team has players like Ryan Gauld, Julian Gressel, Cubas, Caicedo, Vite etc... all very technical players that can play some intricate/pretty football.  The 2nd team doesn't have these kinds of players outside of Habibullah/Coupland (who are both performing very well).  What happens if you give these boys minutes alongside all of those 1st team guys?  You probably get more Niko Sigur stories, more high profile young talents, more transfers to top leagues, more talent for the National Team etc.

From all accounts, Davies didn't stand out when he played for Bayern's 2nd team, so that's  another example.

[Footyeh]

5 hours ago, Kadenge said:

From all accounts, Davies didn't stand out when he played for Bayern's 2nd team, so that's  another example.

Exactly...  

It just sucks that our MLS teams hate young Canadians so we don't see more of these stories!😁🤣

 

[costarg]

2 minutes ago, Footyeh said:

Exactly...  

It just sucks that our MLS teams hate young Canadians so we don't see more of these stories!😁🤣

 

i take it you don't follow CFM much huh?

[InglewoodJack]

16 hours ago, costarg said:

*heavily improvement* = the kid doesn't just wake up one day "heavily improved".  We're naively simplifying.  Something happened between his stint here and starting in Croatia. 

It takes good coaching, confidence instilled from a coach, minutes vs the right level of competition, timing and a quite a few dashes of good luck.

It's not about keeping the players here or spotting the talent.  It's lacking the talent and ressources to develop that talent.

Heavy improvement = he got better with age, a lot more than most players who followed his path. I agree with your point in general, but for Sigur specifically, at which point in the last 3 years was he meant to be swayed back to Canada? Whitecaps knew about him. Vaughan knew about him. We don’t have the most opportunities for young players in the world here, but Sigur seems to have been in all the right spots to get noticed, he just wasn’t. His first international move was Slovenia. They’re not the country you move to if you’re this highly rated prospect, especially since he isn’t even Slovenian. 
 

Like Footyeah explained, he apparently looks a lot better on the senior team than he did with the youth, so I’m assuming that he was given this very lucky shot and surprised everyone by how good he was. For an opportunity like that to materialize in Canada, it means that our domestic league needs teams as notable as Hadjuk split, which, yes, agreed, but that won’t happen overnight.

[Footyeh]

3 hours ago, costarg said:

i take it you don't follow CFM much huh?

I should have acknowledged them, your right lol.  Credit to them now... although they were forced into a situation of having to play Homegrowns and other low budget players when the owner basically decided to stop spending money in the team.  

Honestly, TFC isn't so bad as well.  They given many young players their debuts and continue to use them, just not as consistently as needed or desired.

Vancouver on the other hand.. 

[to70]

Here is a link to an extensive article about his path from Vancouver to Split The google translation to English is actually pretty accurate.

 

https://slobodnadalmacija.hr/sport/hajduk/cudesna-prica-o-uspjehu-igrao-je-amaterski-nogomet-sam-platio-kartu-i-smjestaj-a-hajduk-s-njim-jos-nije-primio-gol-1288510

Edited May 12, 2023 by to70

[nolando]

1 hour ago, to70 said:

Here is a link to an extensive article about his path from Vancouver to Split The google translation to English is actually pretty accurate.

 

https://slobodnadalmacija.hr/sport/hajduk/cudesna-prica-o-uspjehu-igrao-je-amaterski-nogomet-sam-platio-kartu-i-smjestaj-a-hajduk-s-njim-jos-nije-primio-gol-1288510

It blows my mind that Whitecaps get paid a fee for having him at U14 and U15 and then cutting him.

Also, from the article is the predictable, "...if Sigur continues with these kinds of games, it is not excluded that he will receive a call from the coach of the young Croatian national team. He already has a passport."

[costarg]

2 hours ago, nolando said:

It blows my mind that Whitecaps get paid a fee for having him at U14 and U15 and then cutting him.

Also, from the article is the predictable, "...if Sigur continues with these kinds of games, it is not excluded that he will receive a call from the coach of the young Croatian national team. He already has a passport."

I'm curious to know when he got that passport.  Recent or years ago?  Might be telling.

[grigorio]

On 5/9/2023 at 7:52 AM, CanadaFan123 said:

Another example is Stefan Mitrovic. He was passed over by CPL but walked into a Serbian team. We have the talent here - it just needs nurtured. A team like Hajduk Split doesn’t just sign anyone - they saw that talent and nurtured it and now he’s ahead of kids who came up through their academy. 

So from now on any Balkan 16 year olds need cap tying before they get snapped up by European regional giants. 

[spitfire]

11 hours ago, costarg said:

I'm curious to know when he got that passport.  Recent or years ago?  Might be telling.

For him to have signed with a eurpoean team he would have needed a European passport... obs I know but got the passport for opportunites to sign not necessarly to play for Croatias national team...imho...

Edited May 13, 2023 by spitfire

[InglewoodJack]

Isn’t he Croatian? I think you’re eligible for a passport if one or your parents came from there

[jordan]

Starting again