CPL 2023 Season Attendance

[Kingston]

1 hour ago, jonovision said:

I'm not sure of the statistical rigor of these, but seems to fit.

You should probably do a Q test on any potential outliers and state your R^2 value so that we'll all know how much weight to give that data.

(More seriously, thanks for the cool chart.)

[jonovision]

I'm not going to do all that, but I grabbed all the data from Leonard_FC who posts an update on twitter (maybe he's on here too) every week and anyone could do the same (or more painstakingly do it from last year's schedule on CanPL.ca).

Here's a 5-week rolling average which smooths things out a bit. Still a few effects of some York/Edmonton-heavy stretches on the schedule, but a general upward trend with a not insignificant dip in mid-summer.

[BearcatSA]

12 minutes ago, jonovision said:

I'm not going to do all that, but I grabbed all the data from Leonard_FC who posts an update on twitter (maybe he's on here too) every week and anyone could do the same (or more painstakingly do it from last year's schedule on CanPL.ca).

Here's a 5-week rolling average which smooths things out a bit. Still a few effects of some York/Edmonton-heavy stretches on the schedule, but a general upward trend with a not insignificant dip in mid-summer.

That mid-summer/dog day swoon is a factor in MLS as well as other NA summer pro sports leagues.  How to keep attendance up during this time is the focal point of marketing and how you brand or package your product

Thanks for this data. 🙂

 

[longlugan]

On 4/26/2023 at 3:58 AM, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

On internet discussions forums you don't get to dictate what other people post. You don't need to read the posts if you don't like them.

Answer the fucking question. 

[BigBadBorto]

Sellout of 6412 at Wanderers home opener yesterday!  Hope we can keep it up and get above 6k avg for season for the first time.   Also hoping that others like Ottawa and Forge will challenge for attendance title.   They can draw bigger crowds while we are constrained by stadium size

[Lurker]

32 minutes ago, BigBadBorto said:

Sellout of 6412 at Wanderers home opener yesterday!  Hope we can keep it up and get above 6k avg for season for the first time.   Also hoping that others like Ottawa and Forge will challenge for attendance title.   They can draw bigger crowds while we are constrained by stadium size

I think we did average just over 6k in 2019.  The upper limit of 6500 is good, because it makes the place feel packed but at the same time it prevents us from raising the average in any substantial way.  I'd guess we would have drawn anywhere from 8-10k for TFC last year (although I don't if that counts for league attendance).  At the same time on many days it would make the place feel / look empty.

Some more cheap seating would probably help the walk up crowd.  It's the most expensive seats in 104 that are the last ones remaining and those don't help the last few walkup fans who might consider them a bit pricey. 

I think if we keep playing like we are and hang around (at least) the middle of the table it should be a good year.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

Keeping crowds close to capacity can help with building a season ticket culture. When people know they can always get a good ticket regardless (the Hamilton sort of scenario) it's easier for them to pick and choose their games.

[jonovision]

2 hours ago, Lurker said:

I think we did average just over 6k in 2019.  The upper limit of 6500 is good, because it makes the place feel packed but at the same time it prevents us from raising the average in any substantial way.  I'd guess we would have drawn anywhere from 8-10k for TFC last year (although I don't if that counts for league attendance).  At the same time on many days it would make the place feel / look empty.

Some more cheap seating would probably help the walk up crowd.  It's the most expensive seats in 104 that are the last ones remaining and those don't help the last few walkup fans who might consider them a bit pricey. 

I think if we keep playing like we are and hang around (at least) the middle of the table it should be a good year.

Yup, 6055 in 2019.

Kind of wild that Edmonton actually had fairly healthy numbers that season. 

[BigBadBorto]

4 hours ago, Lurker said:

I think we did average just over 6k in 2019.  The upper limit of 6500 is good, because it makes the place feel packed but at the same time it prevents us from raising the average in any substantial way.  I'd guess we would have drawn anywhere from 8-10k for TFC last year (although I don't if that counts for league attendance).  At the same time on many days it would make the place feel / look empty.

Some more cheap seating would probably help the walk up crowd.  It's the most expensive seats in 104 that are the last ones remaining and those don't help the last few walkup fans who might consider them a bit pricey. 

I think if we keep playing like we are and hang around (at least) the middle of the table it should be a good year.

Yes I noticed that about expensive seats being available until game time.   Do they not offer last second seats at discount once game starts?  

Also, it would be nice (whether for current stadium or eventual permanent one) that they can keep capacity limited to 6,500 or so but have additional seats that could be brought in for big games to bring capacity up to 7k or 8k.  

[Kent]

6 hours ago, BigBadBorto said:

Yes I noticed that about expensive seats being available until game time.   Do they not offer last second seats at discount once game starts?  

Also, it would be nice (whether for current stadium or eventual permanent one) that they can keep capacity limited to 6,500 or so but have additional seats that could be brought in for big games to bring capacity up to 7k or 8k.  

I've never been to Halifax, but my assumption is that with the temporary nature of the stadium it is likely pretty bare bones. Is that accurate? If a permanent stadium is made and they don't cheap out on it too much, the stadium itself might draw more fans than are currently going to games. Typically new stadiums draw more fans, but I guess I don't know if the market is already saturated (I hope not, would be great for the team's support to continue growing).

[jonovision]

4566 the announced crowd in Calgary.

[BigBadBorto]

43 minutes ago, Kent said:

I've never been to Halifax, but my assumption is that with the temporary nature of the stadium it is likely pretty bare bones. Is that accurate? If a permanent stadium is made and they don't cheap out on it too much, the stadium itself might draw more fans than are currently going to games. Typically new stadiums draw more fans, but I guess I don't know if the market is already saturated (I hope not, would be great for the team's support to continue growing).

Yes the stadium is pretty basic although they did a great job making the most of it, adding converted sea containers, patio area, and standing room areas to create a very vibrant game day atmosphere.  The location is the biggest selling point, right downtown next to citadel hill as a backdrop and public gardens and nearby to many bars and restaurants.  If it were located out in the suburbs for example it would not generate nearly the same buzz in town and I doubt our attendance would be the same. 
A new stadium is in early stages and the talk was that it might be in the 8k range with potential to expand for bigger games and also expand permanently in the future , which I think is a good approach.  I can see a proper stadium with proper toilets and food service bumping up the numbers by at least a couple  thousand (currently there are port a potty and food trucks).  Unfortunately the mayor is being wooed by a potential CFL team and has spoken about having a stadium serving both teams.. this will slow things down and I believe that in the end the CFL team will fail in this city if it ever gets off the ground 

[Cheeta]

^ Multi-purpose.  *Spits*

Damn the engllish language and it's deceptive turns of phrase.

Multi-purpose = Half assed at everything.  Learned that a long time ago. 

There's two way of doing something.  The right way or the "multi-purpose" way. 

[gigi riva]

As long as I see a increase of attedance from last year  I am happy 

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

19 hours ago, jonovision said:

Yup, 6055 in 2019.

Kind of wild that Edmonton actually had fairly healthy numbers that season. 

York 9 announced an average of 2723 that season as well only for Angus McNab to later describe an 1800ish crowd against the Forge in the 2022 season as the highest ever paid attendance AFAIR. There is a difference between having fairly healthy announced numbers and fairly healthy actual paid attendance.

Always refereshing to see a block of seating that needs to be close to full for the announced number to be credible actually be so in a CanPL context as was the case with Halifax's home opener.

Any theories as to what is going on in Langford this season? Even allowing for fans being allowed back on the hydro pole side again now that said pole has been removed, there seem to be a lot more empty seats in the main stands this season. Is it possible that the former mayor and city council were buying and distributing tickets in some way? 

[MtlMario]

10 hours ago, BigBadBorto said:

Yes the stadium is pretty basic although they did a great job making the most of it, adding converted sea containers, patio area, and standing room areas to create a very vibrant game day atmosphere.  The location is the biggest selling point, right downtown next to citadel hill as a backdrop and public gardens and nearby to many bars and restaurants.  If it were located out in the suburbs for example it would not generate nearly the same buzz in town and I doubt our attendance would be the same. 
A new stadium is in early stages and the talk was that it might be in the 8k range with potential to expand for bigger games and also expand permanently in the future , which I think is a good approach.  I can see a proper stadium with proper toilets and food service bumping up the numbers by at least a couple  thousand (currently there are port a potty and food trucks).  Unfortunately the mayor is being wooed by a potential CFL team and has spoken about having a stadium serving both teams.. this will slow things down and I believe that in the end the CFL team will fail in this city if it ever gets off the ground 

Football and soccer fields are not that much different. It's not like having baseball and soccer together. I think joining the CFL in building a stadium is a good idea. Personally I think a CFL team in Halifax will do good (anyways I hope so). P.S.I know there will be people talking about grass and turf.

[Tigers]

30 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

. Is it possible that the former mayor and city council were buying and distributing tickets in some way? 

Lol, is this a brand new conspiracy, or something else you've been right about since the dawn of time?

[Tigers]

27 minutes ago, MtlMario said:

Football and soccer fields are not that much different. It's not like having baseball and soccer together. I think joining the CFL in building a stadium is a good idea. Personally I think a CFL team in Halifax will do good (anyways I hope so). P.S.I know there will be people talking about grass and turf.

Yeah, I'd hardly call a field used by two different rectangular field sports "multi purpose" .

Seems fairly easy + obvious to do retractable goal line seats that go over the end zones. Could be done pretty slick if incorporated from the beginning and no shoehorned in after.

[jonovision]

Week 3:

• Halifax: 6412
• Calgary: 4566
• Langford: 3378

Haven't seen a number from Ottawa yet. Honestly that Pacific number is pretty good considering it's their 4th home game in 16 days.

[Aird25]

22 minutes ago, jonovision said:

Week 3:

• Halifax: 6412
• Calgary: 4566
• Langford: 3378

Haven't seen a number from Ottawa yet. Honestly that Pacific number is pretty good considering it's their 4th home game in 16 days.

The schedule is never friendly to us on the island. We’ve always had loads of games early and few when they count more. Sunday evenings never seem to draw that well either 

[SoCalTransport]

I believe York9 needs to move to a place like Sudbury.

Toronto FC is just a little too close for comfort for them to draw a good crowd.

Edited May 1, 2023 by SoCalTransport

[BearcatSA]

5 hours ago, Aird25 said:

The schedule is never friendly to us on the island. We’ve always had loads of games early and few when they count more. Sunday evenings never seem to draw that well either 

There are lots of weekend recreation options for individuals, couples, or families starting about now into September, but especially in school holiday months.  If you've been out and about all day or all weekend long boating, biking, camping, or hiking, your motivation to go out to a mid season match on Sunday night would be pretty low.

The summer recreation dollar is a very competitive market.

[Lurker]

On 4/30/2023 at 3:45 PM, BigBadBorto said:

Yes I noticed that about expensive seats being available until game time.   Do they not offer last second seats at discount once game starts?  

I'm not sure.  Does any team in the CPL do that? (or any sport for that matter)  It seems like a good idea, not sure if it's been tried...  a second half ticket ⚽. 

20 hours ago, Kent said:

I've never been to Halifax, but my assumption is that with the temporary nature of the stadium it is likely pretty bare bones. Is that accurate? If a permanent stadium is made and they don't cheap out on it too much, the stadium itself might draw more fans than are currently going to games. Typically new stadiums draw more fans, but I guess I don't know if the market is already saturated (I hope not, would be great for the team's support to continue growing).

Definitely temporary in nature.  Outside of the table seating it's metal benches.  It's a tight fit when it's full, but again that adds to the experience in a way.  I think we could draw more fans today but there's not much room for bleachers anywhere unless they add them in the corners.  The West Side of the field is the one spot that could be reconfigured for more seating but outside of the main grandstand and the kitchen it seems like ownership has gone all in the table oriented seating over increasing total capacity.

 

20 hours ago, BigBadBorto said:

Unfortunately the mayor is being wooed by a potential CFL team and has spoken about having a stadium serving both teams.. this will slow things down and I believe that in the end the CFL team will fail in this city if it ever gets off the ground 

I'd prefer not to share a field with a CFL team.  I'm personally not into the CFL but if someone can pull off a stadium and fill it up then that would be great for the region.  I can't for the life of me figure out how you'd put that on the postage stamp of space you have at the Wanderers Grounds.  Even a permanent 8-10k Soccer/Rugby specific stadium is a bit tricky to conceptualize.  I think a horseshoe configuration would do it though.  The Sackville Street side (South) can hold the media, locker rooms and premium boxes like it does today.  You can pad the top of the stands around the horseshoe with more premium box seating as well... (done day dreaming).

[Aird25]

5 hours ago, BearcatSA said:

There are lots of weekend recreation options for individuals, couples, or families starting about now into September, but especially in school holiday months.  If you've been out and about all day or all weekend long boating, biking, camping, or hiking, your motivation to go out to a mid season match on Sunday night would be pretty low.

The summer recreation dollar is a very competitive market.

It’s true. I came back from up island and we almost missed kickoff because the highway was so packed. Everyone seemed to have bikes, boats or surfboards. Bad weather scares people away, but really nice weather always draws people towards other activities as well 

[Haligonian#1]

1 hour ago, Lurker said:

I'm not sure.  Does any team in the CPL do that? (or any sport for that matter)  It seems like a good idea, not sure if it's been tried...  a second half ticket ⚽. 

Definitely temporary in nature.  Outside of the table seating it's metal benches.  It's a tight fit when it's full, but again that adds to the experience in a way.  I think we could draw more fans today but there's not much room for bleachers anywhere unless they add them in the corners.  The West Side of the field is the one spot that could be reconfigured for more seating but outside of the main grandstand and the kitchen it seems like ownership has gone all in the table oriented seating over increasing total capacity.

 

I'd prefer not to share a field with a CFL team.  I'm personally not into the CFL but if someone can pull off a stadium and fill it up then that would be great for the region.  I can't for the life of me figure out how you'd put that on the postage stamp of space you have at the Wanderers Grounds.  Even a permanent 8-10k Soccer/Rugby specific stadium is a bit tricky to conceptualize.  I think a horseshoe configuration would do it though.  The Sackville Street side (South) can hold the media, locker rooms and premium boxes like it does today.  You can pad the top of the stands around the horseshoe with more premium box seating as well... (done day dreaming).

As I understand it, the current rental agreement with the Halifax Regional Municipality limits the capacity of the Wanderers Ground to 7,500, including spectators, players, staff, etc. This was revised up from the first couple of years. 

I have seen some modelling that proves that you could easily fit a much bigger stadium on the site. There is certainly a limit to what could be fit on the Wanderers site, but it is north of 10,000 seats.

It is clear to me that the Wanderers' ownership group have done their market research. The location of the stadium is also fundamental to their success. They have had attendances that have closely matched the capacity of the stadium from day one. They are being smart about it and will likely keep growing the seating capacity slowly so that they don't overshoot the demand. That demand will keep growing together with the growth of the Halifax population (the second fastest growing CMA in Canada in the last two years).