CPL 2023 Season Attendance

[SpursFlu]

35 minutes ago, kacbru said:

The problem with the CSL in the 1920s was they set it up as a bus league when it would have been more viable to run it as a horse and cart league.

What was that device on train tracks with the guy on either end pumping that seesaw up and down? It should have been a that league

[SpursFlu]

Looks like they'll get to 15k. Will they beat the all time CPL attendance record? I'm saying yes

[nolando]

3 hours ago, kacbru said:

The problem with the CSL in the 1920s was they set it up as a bus league when it would have been more viable to run it as a horse and cart league.

Post of the Year!

[Kent]

2 hours ago, SpursFlu said:

Looks like they'll get to 15k. Will they beat the all time CPL attendance record? I'm saying yes

Will they? It's been virtually sold out for like 24 hours I think, and they haven't opened up any of the upper level yet. Do they have enough seats in the opened sections to get to 15k? It seems like they would rather not open the upper level for one reason or a another, even if it means they don't sell as many tickets as Ottawa did last year.

[JamboAl]

29 minutes ago, Kent said:

Will they? It's been virtually sold out for like 24 hours I think, and they haven't opened up any of the upper level yet. Do they have enough seats in the opened sections to get to 15k? It seems like they would rather not open the upper level for one reason or an another, even if it means they don't sell as many tickets as Ottawa did last year.

I’m almost sure Ottawa capped the attendance last year because of additional costs and the requirement to pay for special bus routes to be run (over a certain attendance level).  Think the crowd could have been 1-2,000 more but it wasn’t worth it to the club to pay the additional costs.

[Kent]

7 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

I’m almost sure Ottawa capped the attendance last year because of additional costs and the requirement to pay for special bus routes to be run (over a certain attendance level).  Think the crowd could have been 1-2,000 more but it wasn’t worth it to the club to pay the additional costs.

Interesting. You are saying they would have to pay the city or something to pay for more public transit capacity? I didn't even know that was a thing, but it makes some sense I suppose.

Edit: Actually does it make sense? The game is giving the transit system more business, why do they have to pay for that? Well, it's not my job to figure out.

Edited October 26, 2023 by Kent

[JamboAl]

3 minutes ago, Kent said:

Interesting. You are saying they would have to pay the city or something to pay for more public transit capacity? I didn't even know that was a thing, but it makes some sense I suppose.

I don’t know if someone else can confirm that but yes, my understanding is that above a certain level, additional buses need to be run.  There is very limited parking at the stadium and only season ticket holders have the right to park in the garage underneath the stadium (has to be prepaid as part of the ticket package).

[m-g-williams]

1 hour ago, JamboAl said:

I don’t know if someone else can confirm that but yes, my understanding is that above a certain level, additional buses need to be run.  There is very limited parking at the stadium and only season ticket holders have the right to park in the garage underneath the stadium (has to be prepaid as part of the ticket package).

This is correct. ATO and other teams that play at Lansdowne Park (67s, Redblacks, etc.) have an arrangement with OC Transpo that their game-day ticket doubles as their bus ticket - if you already have your ticket to the match, you can take the bus for free, there and back. I imagine this is why they would have had to pay the city to put on extra buses if they had gone >15K. 

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

20 hours ago, jonovision said:

Was there some grand conspiracy or cultural force "suppressing" soccer in Canada, or was it simply not that popular?

To name but one example, hundreds of thousands of Italian-Canadians were out on the streets in the GTA celebrating Italy's World Cup win in 1982 but did that stop the sports media in southern Ontario through outlets like the FAN 590, the Toronto Star and the Toronto Sun droning on for at least another three decades about how soccer is simply not that popular in Canada?

Would the 2007 U-20 World Cup stadium that made TFC's emergence and all that followed possible have happened if Italian-Canadian politicians like Joe Volpe (infrastructure minister responsible at federal level) and Joe Pantalone (leader of the NDP group on the city council) had not been there to influence things after the CFL in the shape of the Argos tried to scuttle the whole thing by pulling out of the York University stadium project when Kevan Pipe thought there was no plan B? My money is on not a hope in hell. The likes of Rob "this isn't a soccer stadium, it's a sucker stadium" Ford were actively trying to block the Exhibition Place deal that MLSE wanted up to the very last minute.

It's no bad thing that people like Bob Young now see soccer as an opportunity rather than a sport that is simply not that popular and despite the drivel that will likely be posted on here I'll be as happy as anyone else if there genuinely are 15,000 or so at THF at the final but let's not forget where we are coming from on this, and don't be surprised if people who have been following Canadian soccer for many decades still harbour suspicions of what the true motives might be any time CFL types get involved with soccer. Their loyalty is to the CFL first and foremost and not to soccer and if soccer is perceived as being in the way of what's good for the CFL...

Edited October 27, 2023 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[Kent]

On 10/27/2023 at 4:30 AM, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

don't be surprised if people who have been following Canadian soccer for many decades still harbour suspicions of what the true motives might be any time CFL types get involved with soccer. Their loyalty is to the CFL first and foremost and not to soccer and if soccer is perceived as being in the way of what's good for the CFL...

I don't know the CFL owners, and don't follow the CFL closely at all, but I would guess that their loyalty first and foremost is to money, rather than CFL or CPL.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

Don't think money was what kept David Braley propping up the Argos although I do feel obligated to mention that he also briefly did the same for the Vancouver 86ers in a soccer context.

[red card]

19 hours ago, Kent said:

I don't know the CFL owners, and don't follow the CFL closely at all, but I would guess that their loyalty first and foremost is to money, rather than CFL or CPL.

With 3 being community owned, it is loyalty to CFL/community first as long as they're not losing big money over 3-5 year cycles. Two of the newer owners bought teams to support football in their province and support the team in their city while benefitting from some business synergies. One owns a team because he has enough money to fulfill a promise to his late brother but has morphed into a multi-ownership group.

3 other owners are focused more on money but only if losing a lot of it as all of them are sports entertainment groups who own hockey teams. MLSE is also owning the Argos to protect Bell's CFL media deal's value.

When a sports prof surveyed CHL owners on why they owned teams, the 2 most cited answers was love of hockey and support their community. Half of CHL teams don't make money in any given year.

Sports business orgs have said money is only one of many motivations behind owning a football club today. It can include asset appreciation, real estate play, vanity play, content play, access to global markets, improving your global reputation, passion for football, support/connect with community & establish your legacy.

With Canada not being a soccer nation yet, we don't have enough of these well-off and motivated people/groups who are willing to spend their money on the sport. Y9 owners were a perfect example but their passion was short-lived.

With Canadian players starting to make good money, we have just started to see a handful of them invest in the CPL and many at the semi-pro level. Next step would be see a lot of current/ex players take a minority stake in a CPL club as we have started to see in all of the minority stakes sold in the NWSL. In the time being, CPL will need continue to rely on existing owners of other Canadian sports teams and foreign-based owners.

 

 

Edited October 29, 2023 by red card

[CDNFootballer]

Just about 14k for the CPL's 2023 Final, very impressive!

Edited October 29, 2023 by CDNFootballer

[SpursFlu]

27 minutes ago, CDNFootballer said:

Just about 14k for the CPL's 2023 Final, very impressive!

I lost my bet with Ozzie_the_parrot. I said 200,000 and he said 200

Edited October 30, 2023 by SpursFlu

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

7 hours ago, CDNFootballer said:

Just about 14k for the CPL's 2023 Final, very impressive!

Particularly given we were told on Friday that capacity was capped at 12,500 and there was no indication they had opened the upper bowl or taken any tarps off in the lower bowl subsequent to that. Guess it's a tickets distributed number though and it's all about the PR spin they were aiming for at the end of the day.

[kacbru]

There is some weirdass shit on the internet.  👆 

[Sonny Heung-min]

5 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Particularly given we were told on Friday that capacity was capped at 12,500 and there was no indication they had opened the upper bowl or taken any tarps off in the lower bowl subsequent to that. Guess it's a tickets distributed number though and it's all about the PR spin they were aiming for at the end of the day.

I think the attendance and atmosphere looked great on broadcast. Were you happy with what you saw? Or where you expecting more?

We've completed 5 years now, If the final is like that every years we will be lucky.

[Cicero]

The atmosphere was great, but the number was fantasy. There were about 10,500ish seats open and I'd guess maybe 10-15% were not filled on the west side. I'd guess there were actually about 9-9.5k in the stadium. At that number, the stadium atmosphere feels like a big game. Even with 12k for the Covid CMNT game vs USA, the place was very loud. With just the east side, the fan noise just doesn't fill the place.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

2 hours ago, Sonny Heung-min said:

I think the attendance and atmosphere looked great on broadcast. Were you happy with what you saw? Or where you expecting more?

We've completed 5 years now, If the final is like that every years we will be lucky.

Looked reasonable enough in terms of attendance regardless of any question mark related to how they could announce 1400 higher than what Scott Mitchell was reported on here as having told a podcast was the limit the capacity had been capped at.

Just checked the highlights from 2019 and it was definitely a significantly larger turn out this time than the comparable fixture for these two teams that year although I guess that was only a first leg and they probably didn't have so long to market it. Think they should be happy with this sort of turnout. No idea whether they will be or not internally.

Haven't actually had a chance to watch the full game yet because I had other things I couldn't avoid during the game. Find it difficult to sit through a game when I already know the result so may give it a miss even though I still have two weeks left on my now cancelled Onesoccer subscription to watch it on the replay function.

Onesoccer really needs to acquire the rights to more worthwhile content than stuff like Arsenal TV if they want to keep getting money out of me for the next five months. Overall the standard is what it is and haven't seen much of an upswing in that regard. Any changes that way will be gradual ones but I'll almost certainly be resubscribing next season regardless and hope to be at a Forge or York United game live because I'll be close to the Golden Horseshoe for around 10 days.

I grew up usually watching a comparable playing standard or worse in Scotland (lower dvision clubs) to what this league has to offer so I usually have no problem with the entertainment value whenever I can find the time (found a couple of Valour home games a struggle to keep watching this season but think that's partly bad turf for soccer related). I can also understand though why people who are used to stuff like the English Premiership or Serie A are sometimes not so keen and suspect any growth in actual attendance will also be a gradual process.

2 minutes ago, Cicero said:

The atmosphere was great, but the number was fantasy. There were about 10,500ish seats open and I'd guess maybe 10-15% were not filled on the west side. I'd guess there were actually about 9-9.5k in the stadium...

^^^was taking a life's too short approach to the question of what the actual attendance was but this analysis matches my understanding of how THF is configured and more or less squares with a few clips I have seen on twitter from the reverse angle over towards the west side so sounds about right to me

Edited October 30, 2023 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[Cicero]

5 minutes ago, Cicero said:

The atmosphere was great, but the number was fantasy. There were about 10,500ish seats open and I'd guess maybe 10-15% were not filled on the west side. I'd guess there were actually about 9-9.5k in the stadium. At that number, the stadium atmosphere feels like a big game. Even with 12k for the Covid CMNT game vs USA, the place was very loud. With just the east side, the fan noise just doesn't fill the place.

To hit 13.9k, both lower sections would have to have been completely filled, even the end sections, plus club, boxes and a few more. Compare with Ottawa last year which I think was listed as 15k. Both lower sections were packed and part of one side's upper deck had several rows filled. That seemed a more realistic estimate.

[Ftduck]

40 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Find it difficult to sit through a game when I already know the result so may give it a miss even though I still have two weeks left on my now cancelled Onesoccer subscription to watch it on the replay function.

Just watch the last 30 minutes if time is an issue. It was great watching Forge come alive once they were scored on.

[Kingston]

15 hours ago, CDNFootballer said:

Just about 14k for the CPL's 2023 Final, very impressive!

Obviously the season average attendance is the most important number as it drives overall revenue.

To me, however, seeing a big crowd for an important game like this (or a season opener or a CCL match) is an indicator of the league being healthy.  The fact that people recognize big games and come out for them shows there is awareness and interest.  It also shows that the full fan base includes far more people than just the hard core fan base.

I look forward to the day when this is a typical crowd for Forge.

[Ansem]

10 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Particularly given we were told on Friday that capacity was capped at 12,500 and there was no indication they had opened the upper bowl or taken any tarps off in the lower bowl subsequent to that. Guess it's a tickets distributed number though and it's all about the PR spin they were aiming for at the end of the day.

If you want I can find the phone number for "UA" for you
USL Anonymous

[Kent]

The canpl.ca website finally put the attendance for the October 1st York United home game up (does someone want to tweet that Leonardo guy so he can update his numbers too? Last post of his that I saw on here it was missing one York United game as well, but not sure if he has updated and it just didn't make it's way here). So now I have data for every game. Here is the week to week comparison between 2022 and 2023.

The 4 pre-final playoff games and the final itself drew fewer fans this year than last year (largely due to Ottawa missing out this season, since they drew very well in the playoffs last year, including the final). Out of the other 28 4-game-chunks-that-I-just-refer-to-as-weeks, 5 weeks from 2022 outdrew the corresponding week in 2023, and the other 23 weeks 2023 outdrew 2022's corresponding week.

The numbers I have actually sum up to 429,612 in total attendance. The league in that article that came out a couple weeks ago said 429,915, I'm not sure where the difference comes from, but they must have corrected a game or two after I grabbed the number (or of course they cynically pumped up the number because the extra 303 people across 112 games will make a big difference to potential investors). With my numbers it gives an average attendance of 3835 across the league, up 20.64% from last year.

[jonovision]

FWIW, about a third of this season's increase in league average attendance is due to replacing Edmonton's 1071 average from 2022 with Vancouver's 2790 in 2023.

Omitting those two teams the remaining 7 had an average of 3505 in 2022 and 3968 in 2023, an increase of 13%.

Edited November 9, 2023 by jonovision