CPL 2023 Season Attendance

[Kingston]

21 minutes ago, jonovision said:

Pacific is a mystery to me. They have many of the major advantages Halifax has (a large-enough Canadian city with a history in football and few competing sports properties), although clearly the stadium location is an issue. Their attendance has basically matched Valour in every season except 2019 (where they were way behind) but the latter squad's attendance issues are viewed by some as being terminal. Unlike Valour, they can't point to poor on-field product or lack of local players or even unsuitable venue as reasons for their relatively poor attendance. 

From my outside perspective, the main difference between Pacific and Halifax is the outlying stadium versus the down town venue.  As I've said before, Pacific actually draw quite well for the size of their market.  On a per capita for market size basis, they're well ahead of everyone else in the league except Halifax.  Maybe they're just close to what the fan population is for regular soccer games in that city.

[jonovision]

22 minutes ago, Kingston said:

As I've said before, Pacific actually draw quite well for the size of their market.  On a per capita for market size basis, they're well ahead of everyone else in the league except Halifax.

I don't think there's much evidence for correlation between size of market and attendance for the CPL. In many ways a smaller city is an advantage (more local media attention, less competition for the sports fan dollar).

[Kent]

Looks like there are still a lot of tickets available for this weekend's game in Calgary. It's a shame we aren't seeing brisk sales like we are for the final. It might be harder to get up for the game after a playoff loss, but it's still a massive game!

[shermanator]

Pacific's stadium being far away from the Victoria CBD is a bit of a red herring as well. Compare them to Cavalry, who also have a half purpose-built stadium outside the city limits. Cavalry is growing their attendance significantly. Pacific is stagnant. This despite Cavalry's ticket prices being significantly higher.

Cavalry's season ticket base is relatively flat, at least, according to the club official I talked to at the jersey launch in March. Where they have succeeded in growing their attendance is through their Club Program. In addition to the actual grassroots initiatives, they outsource selling of game day tickets to the youth clubs; if a youth club sells a ticket they can get a portion of that back as fundraising. As a result there are hundreds of kids at every game.

This is why when you see tickets for a game like Saturday's (which were included in the season ticket package) go on sale, there aren't a lot of seats taken. That is the season ticket base. Then over the course of the week, not only do casual ticket buyers purchase tickets, but youth clubs sell tickets and then get sections of tickets once they know who all is attending.

One has worked a lot harder to grow their attendance than the other has. That's the difference.

[shermanator]

18 minutes ago, Kent said:

Looks like there are still a lot of tickets available for this weekend's game in Calgary. It's a shame we aren't seeing brisk sales like we are for the final. It might be harder to get up for the game after a playoff loss, but it's still a massive game!

To be fair to Calgary, in the last 2 weeks, Cavalry have.

1. Lifted a trophy that the league is trying to pitch as just as important as the North Star Cup.
2. Lost yet another "massive" playoff game.

Not a surprise that tickets aren't selling as well given Cavalry's history of losing playoff games they should win. 

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

33 minutes ago, Kent said:

Looks like there are still a lot of tickets available for this weekend's game in Calgary. It's a shame we aren't seeing brisk sales like we are for the final...

AFAIR this has happened in previous seasons as well for certain playoff games there which is why I posted that it was worth keeping an eye on this a few days back. My guess would be that a lot of people still baulk at the ticket prices in the main stand if there are no special deals involved. Maybe there will be a late rush of sales tomorrow though.

Also think people are making a big assumption if they are assuming the Forge are showing all or even most of the potentially available seats on the ticketmaster seat map. Some CanPL teams like the Cavalry will do that but the Forge and York United in particular are examples of clubs that often seem to create an appearance of scarcity when in reality there are still plenty of unused seats by the time the game happens.

Edited October 20, 2023 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[Kingston]

59 minutes ago, jonovision said:

I don't think there's much evidence for correlation between size of market and attendance for the CPL. In many ways a smaller city is an advantage (more local media attention, less competition for the sports fan dollar).

Somewhere I recently posted a graph which showed that there is an inverse attendance.  So, theoretically, the maximum attendance would be in a city with zero population.

More seriously, there does seem to be a benefit to being in a smaller centre, as you mention.

[K Edgar]

27 minutes ago, Kingston said:

Somewhere I recently posted a graph which showed that there is an inverse attendance.  So, theoretically, ...

Move Pacific FC to Tofino.  Problem fixed.  (and the name would be more accurate too)

[Watchmen]

1 hour ago, shermanator said:

Pacific's stadium being far away from the Victoria CBD is a bit of a red herring as well. Compare them to Cavalry, who also have a half purpose-built stadium outside the city limits. Cavalry is growing their attendance significantly. Pacific is stagnant. This despite Cavalry's ticket prices being significantly higher.

I think this is where market size kicks in though. Which isn't to say Calgary hasn't done a good job of working with the community, simply that the community being bigger to start with helps overcome the stadium location a little bit.

[CDNFootballer]

9 hours ago, InglewoodJack said:

How has Vancouver’s attendance trended all season? They’re averaging just shy of 2,800 but last game was 3,600. Did they grow attendance throughout the year or was that an outlier?
 

They didn't grow thru the year, other than 3 or 4 games their announced attendance was in the 2100-2300 range like @Watchmen mentioned.

The team has done basically no serious marketing and has a lot of work to do to increase awareness in the market. A poor on the field first half of the season didn't help either, luckily that was rectified with the mid season roster revamp that also saved the coaches job.

[CDNFootballer]

9 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

The problem is most actual crowds for Vancouver appeared to be in the 800-1500 sort of range

Do you have anything to back this statement up in the form of hard data link perhaps or are you just grasping onto anything a random internet/forum poster may say to continue your glass quarter full negative narrative on CPL attendance these last 5 years?

[gigi riva]

The CPL is about 5 years old  in reality they really have played only 3 seasons  due to the Covid 19 .  I have been told  the paid attendence has increased   not by a lot  as I wished and hope for , there is still a ton of work to do , and  lets hope they can continue to grow this league properly. I guess the real achilles heal of this League is York , and Vancouver FC , York should get away from the GTA and relocate to a Kitchener / Waterloo, or London . Vancouver FC is still new lets give them some time .

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

13 hours ago, Watchmen said:

I think this is where market size kicks in though. Which isn't to say Calgary hasn't done a good job of working with the community, simply that the community being bigger to start with helps overcome the stadium location a little bit.

Think this issue is a complicated one with many contributing factors and no simple easy answer. FC Edmonton were playing next to a light rail transit line not too far from the traditional downtown core and couldn't draw flies. In contrast, that sort of more traditional core location worked much better in Halifax albeit with bus rather than LRT related transit options.

Spruce Meadows is next to Calgary's main outer highway that runs right around the city so works well as a location for a lot of people who drive and likely a lot better that way than the Langford scenario for Pacific where urban sprawl growth has outpaced highway and transit infrastructure provision.

York 9 should have been in a very good location for highway access for people in the 905 dialing code area who are quite distant from BMO Field and also for a lot of subway and bus transit users as well but haven't been able to draw flies. Location and even a reasonably large marketing budget by all accounts isn't always enough if the product is perceived locally rightly or wrongly as being too minor league.

[Colonel Green]

19 hours ago, SpursFlu said:

It's really no kwinky dink that the 2 worst attended teams were the worst teams 

It is, though? Halifax consistently leads the league in attendance despite having been bad for most of its existence.

[Colonel Green]

EDIT.

Edited October 21, 2023 by Colonel Green

[shermanator]

4066 in attendance for Cavalry vs Pacific. 

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

On 10/20/2023 at 9:27 PM, Kent said:

Looks like there are still a lot of tickets available for this weekend's game in Calgary. It's a shame we aren't seeing brisk sales like we are for the final. It might be harder to get up for the game after a playoff loss, but it's still a massive game!

5200 seats overall with around 4500 of that in the main stand. People can draw their own conclusions from the highlights (or game replay on the Onestream app) how that eventually turned out for them. The official attendance stat is not the only information source we have available in a Calgary context when the Onesoccer camera vantage point regularly pans across almost the entire available capacity. Different story in an Ottawa context obviously.

[kacbru]

If a parrot shits in the woods, but no one can smell it on the highlights, does it still stink? 

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

Welcome to my ignore list.

[jonovision]

6 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

5200 seats overall with around 4500 of that in the main stand. People can draw their own conclusions from the highlights (or game replay on the Onestream app) how that eventually turned out for them. The official attendance stat is not the only information source we have available in a Calgary context when the Onesoccer camera vantage point regularly pans across almost the entire available capacity. Different story in an Ottawa context obviously.

I watched the Blue Bombers game yesterday. Fourth straight sell-out. Yet empty seats in every crowd shot. Anyone who has been to the games can tell you that at any given time, the combined number of people in the bathrooms, concourses, or watching from unticketed areas like the Rum Hut.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

How many empty seats do you see in crowd shots from Halifax when they announce 6000 or so?

[Aird25]

I'm hearing 10k+ already sold for the final

[Aird25]

58 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

How many empty seats do you see in crowd shots from Halifax when they announce 6000 or so?

Where are the unticketed sections to hang out in Halifax. The porta-potties? Or do they have beer gardens, sidelines standing area and concessions/kids areas like Pacific and other teams?

[SpursFlu]

I cant wait for the new drama streaming on Hulu. "Empty Seats"

Everyone was loving the announced attendance of 3724 but he knew something wasn't right. Down at the service they told him to leave it alone, it's a victimless crime and to focus on real criminals but he swore an oath and he wasn't moving on. Watch this edge of your seat crime drama as agent Ozzie_the_parrot played by Jada Pincket Smith tirelessly pursues the CPL and their international web of attendance lies. Supporters groups, ticketmaster blue dots, modular stadiums, paid tickets & community soccer associations promo deals. Empty Seats will have you occupying only 5% of your seat because you'll be on the edge of the seat that you probably didnt buy (Ozzie_the_parrot slowly walking away from explosion)

Edited October 22, 2023 by SpursFlu

[johnyb]

1 hour ago, jonovision said:

I watched the Blue Bombers game yesterday. Fourth straight sell-out. Yet empty seats in every crowd shot. Anyone who has been to the games can tell you that at any given time, the combined number of people in the bathrooms, concourses, or watching from unticketed areas like the Rum Hut.

Was at the game. Correct, it was an announced sellout, and the Rum Hut area was packed as usual, but there were much more empty seats compared to the last few sellouts. Had to be a case of announcing tickets sold instead of actual fans in attendance.