CPL 2023 Season Attendance

[Kent]

Still missing numbers for 3 regular season games, 1 each from the 3 lowest attended teams. A note about the playoffs about to start. It will be hard for this year to outdo last year's average attendance across the playoffs. Last year it was an average of 7509 in playoff games. If I remember correctly, I think that is largely due to Ottawa having a big crowd one game, and a really big crowd another game. I think Forge had a big crowd one game too.

[BearcatSA]

On 10/11/2023 at 7:06 PM, Kent said:

Still missing numbers for 3 regular season games, 1 each from the 3 lowest attended teams.

Did you ever get those numbers?  I was curious about the count for VFC's final regular season match at home on Thanksgiving Friday and the club coming in on a three game winning streak.

[Kent]

7 hours ago, BearcatSA said:

Did you ever get those numbers?  I was curious about the count for VFC's final regular season match at home on Thanksgiving Friday and the club coming in on a three game winning streak.

Nothing yet. I just take the numbers from the canpl.ca website, and the numbers for those 3 games (and the HFX playoff game as well now) still aren't available.

[Ed_S]

Calgary Sun reports attendance of 4,385 for Saturdays Cavalry - Forge match.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

Lots of blue dots in the main stand for Saturday's game on Ticketmaster right now. The cheaper seats at either end are largely taken though. Guess this one isn't covered by the season ticket package and flexi packs, and season ticket holders will probably already have had a window to claim their regular seat(s) and add extras. Will be interesting to see how many of the more expensive tickets they will be able to shift between now and Saturday when it isn't the final that's involved.

Edited October 17, 2023 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[Aird25]

Forge is opening up additional sections for the final

https://twitter.com/BTFR17/status/1714282915356684715

Edited October 17, 2023 by Aird25

[Watchmen]

I'll post it here, though it could also go in a few spots on this forum. There's about a half hour discussion on attendance for the Whitecaps and then about an hour discussion on attendance for Vancouver FC. Crowd sourced from people on why they don't attend, etc.  

Time stamps in the podcast.

https://aftn.ca/episode-583-the-aftn-soccer-show/

[chalms04]

6 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Guess this one isn't covered by the season ticket package and flexi packs

Because of an early exit in V’s Cup, it actually is included for STH. 
 

TMI, but the stands will be down a man as I booked a vasectomy around us going directly to the final. Serves me for being cocky. 

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

20 hours ago, Watchmen said:

I'll post it here, though it could also go in a few spots on this forum. There's about a half hour discussion on attendance for the Whitecaps and then about an hour discussion on attendance for Vancouver FC. Crowd sourced from people on why they don't attend, etc.  

Time stamps in the podcast.

https://aftn.ca/episode-583-the-aftn-soccer-show/

Takes them an eterntity to very repetitively work their way through what could be summarized as:

(a) Vancouver FC are perceived as being too far away for most people on the other side of the river to travel to including those from the area that could most sensibly be termed Vancouver,

(b) have branded themselves in a way that antagonizes some people on their side of the river who don't view themselves as being from Vancouver,

(c) alienated some Whitecaps fans unnecessarily who would have been happy to support both teams with stuff like the support a winning team jibe from Shaan Hundal early in their existence,

(d) are perceived by some as having a toxic fan culture due to some baggage where the Curva Collective are concerned from their Whitecaps days and the whole I am a better fan than you are because I support the team in the Canadian league vibe leading to what was described as a "too many wankers" perception,

(e) the stadium leaves a lot to be desired due to the absence of a roof and metal surfaces, is way too difficult to get to by the public transport with little to do around the stadium pre-game once you get there,

(f) some season ticket holders only went to a few games and others have been irked by some of the ticket promotions that have been happening undercutting the season ticket price taking away any possibility of resale, because overall there is little incentive to buy higher priced seats when you can easily buy cheaper tickets or access them through youth clubs and sit wherever you want.

Think they avoided the elephant in the room which is that a lot of people who are used to watching the English Premiership or Serie A in their basements view the playing standard of MLS as too low to take seriously before you even start to discuss a league like CanPL but the guy doing the show says he's an East Fife fan so he isn't going to have that sort of issue. 

Edited October 18, 2023 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[BearcatSA]

3 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Think they avoided the elephant in the room which is that a lot of people who are used to watching the English Premiership or Serie A in their basements view the playing standard of MLS as too low to take seriously before you even start to discuss a league like CanPL but the guy doing the show says he's an East Fife fan so he isn't going to have that sort of issue. 

Good break down of a very lengthy discussion

They also made a mention of something I have spoken about on here pertaining to the competition for the spring/summer/fall recreation dollar and time in this tighter economic environment:  lots of more active, non-sports viewing recreational options available for the whole families of casual fans, apart from pro sports viewing.

Edited October 18, 2023 by BearcatSA

[jonovision]

Everyone but York up YoY, impressive gains by Cavalry, Forge and Ottawa.

[Shway]

Well done. Let's continue to see thee rise. 

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

Announced numbers were always going to be up for marketing reasons regardless of whether they actually were in tickets scanned terms. They probably were up on that metric as well in most cases, but I'm most skeptical with Pacific. Think the change of mayor in Langford hasn't done them any favours. I'm far from the only person who has commented on Vancouver numbers looking very generous at times. Having them around rather than Edmonton helped the overall league average, but probably more than reflects the real fan interest level in them at this point.

I don't think either the big decrease for the Forge from 2019 to 2022 on announced attendance or the big increase from 2022 to 2023 reflects anything more than the mechanics of how tickets were being distributed for the most part. See recent comments of Forge fans on that. Actual crowds were likely up a bit, but a 50% increase stretches credulity to breaking point and looks like an outlier in statistical terms when compared to what is happening elsewhere in the league.

Edited October 20, 2023 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[Stryker911]

50 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Announced numbers were always going to be up for marketing reasons regardless of whether they actually were in tickets scanned terms. They probably were up on that metric as well in most cases, but I'm most skeptical with Pacific. Think the change of mayor in Langford hasn't done them any favours. I'm far from the only person who has commented on Vancouver numbers looking very generous at times. Having them around rather than Edmonton helped the overall league average, but probably more than reflects the real fan interest level in them at this point.

I don't think either the big decrease for the Forge from 2019 to 2022 on announced attendance or the big increase from 2022 to 2023 reflects anything more than the mechanics of how tickets were being distributed for the most part. See recent comments of Forge fans on that. Actual crowds were likely up a bit, but a 50% increase stretches credulity to breaking point and looks like an outlier in statistical terms when compared to what is happening elsewhere in the league.

You are incorrect. I was actually at Forge games and made recent comments regarding attendance. Forge games attendance is way up.

[InglewoodJack]

How has Vancouver’s attendance trended all season? They’re averaging just shy of 2,800 but last game was 3,600. Did they grow attendance throughout the year or was that an outlier?
 

Seeing a lot of tweets this past week about how the CPL is destined for failure, only 3 successful teams and the rest are at risk of folding, etc. It would seem that VFC had an encouraging first season especially considering some of the branding and stadium issues that people are bringing up that should be improbable over the next few seasons. 

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

The problem is most actual crowds for Vancouver appeared to be in the 800-1500 sort of range rather than what was being announced. People who are more gloomy about the league's prospects are going off what they see happening rather than what is being announced. Think there are 4 rather than 3 teams that are doing reasonably OK to well, but there's no question that the league has an issue with attendance in the other 4 markets. Especially Toronto (York) where actual crowds tend to be well under 1000.

[Ansem]

1 hour ago, Stryker911 said:

You are incorrect. I was actually at Forge games and made recent comments regarding attendance. Forge games attendance is way up.

He wouldn't since he has yet to buy a f'n ticket

[SpursFlu]

Wow 7/8 teams up in attendance. Some way up and one with no where to go. Amazing 

Wait until the media gets on board. Sky's the limit 

Great work everyone 👏 

[Stryker911]

Looking at Ticketmaster for the finals in Hamilton. It would appear there are less than 150 of the normally available seats remaining. They opened up about 900 seats on the west end and close to 2/3rds of them are gone. Probably have sold about 7000 tickets so far. 

That is without knowing the opponent, which I doubt will change much. It's unfortunate Ottawa isn't the opponent as that would add some away fans. 

Triston Henry was on the local news this morning and the game was brought up repeatedly. 

[Watchmen]

3 hours ago, InglewoodJack said:

How has Vancouver’s attendance trended all season? They’re averaging just shy of 2,800 but last game was 3,600. Did they grow attendance throughout the year or was that an outlier?
 

Seeing a lot of tweets this past week about how the CPL is destined for failure, only 3 successful teams and the rest are at risk of folding, etc. It would seem that VFC had an encouraging first season especially considering some of the branding and stadium issues that people are bringing up that should be improbable over the next few seasons. 

It was the outlier. Trend on attendance was down. Final game was "up" because of ticket give aways (they declared the east stand "sold out" but was at best 1/3rd full) and heavily discounted tickets ($10 if I recall). Prior to that, announced attendance was in the 2100-2300 range for roughly half the season.

[SpursFlu]

41 minutes ago, Stryker911 said:

Looking at Ticketmaster for the finals in Hamilton. It would appear there are less than 150 of the normally available seats remaining. They opened up about 900 seats on the west end and close to 2/3rds of them are gone. Probably have sold about 7000 tickets so far. 

That is without knowing the opponent, which I doubt will change much. It's unfortunate Ottawa isn't the opponent as that would add some away fans. 

Triston Henry was on the local news this morning and the game was brought up repeatedly. 

I dont know? Wait until they find out they're playing those bastards from Calgary. Oh those guys act like Americans. Errrrr let's teach them a lesson 

[Kingston]

17 hours ago, jonovision said:

Halifax, Hamilton, and Ottawa are good enough for the long term.  Hopefully they continue to improve but they have met the long term minimum.

Calgary is still a bit lower than it needs to be but is showing promising improvement.  I'm optimistic about their future.

Pacific and Valour are a concern.  Not in the immediate sense, by any means, but they both need to figure out how to break out of the 3000 range.  This may be harder in Victoria where the team is already winning on the field and is already actually drawing pretty well for the size of the market.

Vancouver is only one year in so we'll have to see what they do.  I'm disappointed, however, that they didn't start a lot higher.

York is simply a failure.

Overall the league still has a lot to do to achieve eight teams drawing sustainable numbers.  We are closer to that goal than we were at this time last year, though, which I'm very happy to see.

 

[SpursFlu]

I think people just need to understand that all teams, markets, results, seasons are not the same. Look at any league in the world. There is no up without down or good without bad. Like anything in life, results may vary. Victoria isn't Ottawa. Winnipeg isn't Halifax. 1st place isn't last place. It's really no kwinky dink that the 2 worst attended teams were the worst teams 

Edited October 20, 2023 by SpursFlu

[jonovision]

44 minutes ago, Kingston said:

Halifax, Hamilton, and Ottawa are good enough for the long term.  Hopefully they continue to improve but they have met the long term minimum.

Calgary is still a bit lower than it needs to be but is showing promising improvement.  I'm optimistic about their future.

Pacific and Valour are a concern.  Not in the immediate sense, by any means, but they both need to figure out how to break out of the 3000 range.  This may be harder in Victoria where the team is already winning on the field and is already actually drawing pretty well for the size of the market.

Vancouver is only one year in so we'll have to see what they do.  I'm disappointed, however, that they didn't start a lot higher.

York is simply a failure.

Overall the league still has a lot to do to achieve eight teams drawing sustainable numbers.  We are closer to that goal than we were at this time last year, though, which I'm very happy to see.

 

Pacific is a mystery to me. They have many of the major advantages Halifax has (a large-enough Canadian city with a history in football and few competing sports properties), although clearly the stadium location is an issue. Their attendance has basically matched Valour in every season except 2019 (where they were way behind) but the latter squad's attendance issues are viewed by some as being terminal. Unlike Valour, they can't point to poor on-field product or lack of local players or even unsuitable venue as reasons for their relatively poor attendance. 

Edited October 20, 2023 by jonovision

[Kingston]

57 minutes ago, SpursFlu said:

I think people just need to understand that all teams, markets, results, seasons are not the same. Look at any league in the world. There is no up without down or good without bad. Like anything in life, results may vary. Victoria isn't Ottawa. Winnipeg isn't Halifax. 1st place isn't last place. It's really no kwinky dink that the 2 worst attended teams were the worst teams 

Except they weren't.  York finished fifth and made the playoffs (ahead of well attended Ottawa, among others) and Vancouver beat Valour.

You are right, though, that things fluctuate.  I'm interested in the trends and in teams having sufficient long term fanbases that will come out in good years on the field and in bad.