CPL 2023 Season Attendance

[Ansem]

Just now, Watchmen said:

I know. I was kidding. But that's what the Marlies are, a farm team for the biggest team in hockey. And that matters more for that market than all the other aspects you mention (though I guess technically that falls under ownership). It's not "quintuple check", it's one check that really, really matters.

The checks actually matters - they aren't drawing those numbers or attention playing in a local minor arena on Steeles Avenue West calling themselves York 5 and having mediocre seasons. Can we be a little more serious about this?

[Watchmen]

2 minutes ago, Ansem said:

The checks actually matters - they aren't drawing those numbers or attention playing in a local minor arena on Steeles Avenue West calling themselves York 5 and having mediocre seasons. Can we be a little more serious about this?

They are if they're the Maple Leafs AHL affiliate. You're really under estimating the power of that affiliation.

[Ansem]

11 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

They are if they're the Maple Leafs AHL affiliate. You're really under estimating the power of that affiliation.

Then explain all the previous AHL failures for the Habs? They finally got it right with the Rockets

Marketing/Branding? Check (Rocket was a nice touch)

Location? Check (Central, close to highways, trains and subway)

Ownership? Check

competitive/winning team? Check

venue? Check

If it was in a city arena at the border of Laval and Mascouche with little marketing just caling themselves the Laval Canadiens - it wouldn't work as well, definately not drawing between 6 and 7k in attendance.

I mean the state of TFC II defeats whatever point you're trying to make - they definately aren't hitting all those check marks and they never cared too, another reason why it was a good move for CPL to keep them out

Edited August 11, 2023 by Ansem

[Watchmen]

18 minutes ago, Ansem said:

Then explain all the previous AHL failures for the Habs? They finally got it right with the Rockets

Marketing/Branding? Check (Rocket was a nice touch)

Location? Check (Central, close to highways, trains and subway)

Ownership? Check

competitive/winning team? Check

venue? Check

If it was in a city arena at the border of Laval and Mascouche with little marketing just caling themselves the Laval Canadiens - it wouldn't work as well, definately not drawing between 6 and 7k in attendance.

I mean the state of TFC II defeats whatever point you're trying to make - they definately aren't hitting all those check marks and they never cared too, another reason why it was a good move for CPL to keep them out

I'm not sure what you mean by "all the previous AHL failures for the Habs". Do you mean in other cities? 

You sort of proved my point again here. The Rockets being affiliated with the Canadiens is what matters. An AHL team in Toronto or Montreal or Vancouver that wasn't affiliated with the Leafs/Habs/Canucks wouldn't draw as well as a team that was affiliated with them. The Abbotsford Heat drew less than the Abbotsford Canucks do now, despite playing in the same venue. It's that affiliation that matters.

And I agree, the CPL should not allow MLS to have reserve teams in the CPL. But when looking at attendance for minor league teams (or smaller pro-level league teams) in the big 3 markets, the affiliation with the big club matters a lot. It's my way of saying the Marlies are a poor comparable for a CPL club, because it's not "marketing or location" that draws the attendance.

[SoccMan]

5 hours ago, SpursFlu said:

I applaud people from Toronto for their enthusiasm. I always get along and appreciate people from Ontario because they're less wishy washy then what you get in Vancouver. But they do tend to come across as style bitters at time. Whatever seems to be the "thing" they just get all fired up over it with little self awareness and a ton of confidence. That's probably where the American thing comes from. It's kind of a Shooter McGaven vibe that comes out of Toronto. Maybe that's why they like Trudeau so much. He's kinda like a woke Shooter McGaven 

I would also add that's why everyone in BC hates Trudeau. All sides. Because people here are genuine weirdos. They live that life. It's been passed down thru generations. They're not just pretending to gain social clout. They genuinely believe all that craziness 

Woke yes especially when driving you better be . 

[Ansem]

2 hours ago, Watchmen said:

I'm not sure what you mean by "all the previous AHL failures for the Habs". Do you mean in other cities? 

You sort of proved my point again here. The Rockets being affiliated with the Canadiens is what matters. An AHL team in Toronto or Montreal or Vancouver that wasn't affiliated with the Leafs/Habs/Canucks wouldn't draw as well as a team that was affiliated with them. The Abbotsford Heat drew less than the Abbotsford Canucks do now, despite playing in the same venue. It's that affiliation that matters.

And I agree, the CPL should not allow MLS to have reserve teams in the CPL. But when looking at attendance for minor league teams (or smaller pro-level league teams) in the big 3 markets, the affiliation with the big club matters a lot. It's my way of saying the Marlies are a poor comparable for a CPL club, because it's not "marketing or location" that draws the attendance.

Affiliation with a parent club doesn't guarantee success - TFC II keeps proving my point, no one cares about them in MLSNextPro and they draw less than York United. 

[SthMelbRed]

4 hours ago, Watchmen said:

So, a TFC farm team? Like the Marlies?

Stop it! You're giving the weirdo in London a boner.

[Watchmen]

2 hours ago, Ansem said:

Affiliation with a parent club doesn't guarantee success - TFC II keeps proving my point, no one cares about them in MLSNextPro and they draw less than York United. 

The "TFC affiliation" for CPL was a joke, as previously stated.

The "the Marlies draw well because of their affiliation with the Leafs" was not. It's the part you keep missing.

[Ansem]

17 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

The "TFC affiliation" for CPL was a joke, as previously stated.

The "the Marlies draw well because of their affiliation with the Leafs" was not. It's the part you keep missing.

I'm not missing anything, Marlies affiliation with the Leafs is "one" of many factors needed to succeed while you're implying that they'd succeed anywhere anyhow.

They are at Exhibition playing in a good venue + a competitive & affordable team -  not sure it would be the same in lower end arena in the middle of nowhere while they chronically lose matches.

[Watchmen]

3 minutes ago, Ansem said:

I'm not missing anything, Marlies affiliation with the Leafs is "one" of many factors needed to succeed while you're implying that they'd succeed anywhere anyhow.

They are at Exhibition playing in a good venue + a competitive & affordable team -  not sure it would be the same in lower end arena in the middle of nowhere while they chronically lose matches.

I am saying that it is the primary factor.  That an AHL team unaffiliated with the Leafs in the same venue would do worse.  And yes, I think a Leafs affiliated AHL team in a worse venue with a worse record would still draw well.

[Haligonian#1]

32 minutes ago, Ansem said:

I'm not missing anything, Marlies affiliation with the Leafs is "one" of many factors needed to succeed while you're implying that they'd succeed anywhere anyhow.

They are at Exhibition playing in a good venue + a competitive & affordable team -  not sure it would be the same in lower end arena in the middle of nowhere while they chronically lose matches.

The words "Leafs" and "succeed" should never be spoken together in the same sentence. It defies logic.

[Cheeta]

2 hours ago, Watchmen said:

..

And yes, I think a Leafs affiliated AHL team in a worse venue with a worse record would still draw well.

....

OK.  If you say so, pal.

[RS]

14 hours ago, Watchmen said:

That an AHL team unaffiliated with the Leafs in the same venue would do worse.

To your point, that already happened. The AHL's Toronto Roadrunners only lasted one season at the then-Ricoh Coliseum.

12 hours ago, Cheeta said:

OK.  If you say so, pal.

He's right, though.

[Ansem]

Oh those Roadrunners?

[RS]

54 minutes ago, Ansem said:

Oh those Roadrunners?

Yes, those Roadrunners.

Thank you for proving @Watchmen's point.

[Ansem]

1 hour ago, RS said:

Yes, those Roadrunners.

Thank you for proving @Watchmen's point.

What point? I'm still waiting on the TFC II rational about "his point"

Edited August 12, 2023 by Ansem

[Watchmen]

31 minutes ago, Ansem said:

What point? I'm still waiting on the TFC II rational about "his point"

My point was minor league teams (or "small pro leagues" because I don't feel like arguing about the status of the CPL) don't draw well in Toronto unless they're affiliated with the behemoth of sports teams in that market.  The TFC 2 comment was a joke you've taken super seriously.

[narduch]

The irony of this Marlies talk is that MLSE probably doesn't move their AHL affiliate to Toronto without getting a sweetheart stadium deal.

The stadium was renovated for the Roadrunners originally. No way MLSE does something Iike that on their own.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

Not sure if it's still the case because I don't pay much attention to hockey but at one point MLSE were finding ways to force people buying certain types of ticket deals for their other teams to take Marlies tickets as part of the package.

[Colonel Green]

On 8/11/2023 at 2:40 PM, Aird25 said:

It's just mind boggling to me that Toronto can't sustain a team that competes in Canada's top domestic league. A team full of players from Toronto and surrounding communities. One that's trying to improve local and national opportunities and they can't even draw a few thousand people from a city of millions. There just doesn't seem to be a lot of appreciation for being the best in Canada. Every other city in Canada may very well be similar, but I hope not. If the majority of folks around the world had the same general mentality, the Super League would've taken over ages ago and we wouldn't see leagues in every country anymore.

I mean, this ultimately goes to the fact that cross-border leagues are the norm north of Mexico. I think if you asked Torontonians what Canada's top domestic league was, most would say it was MLS.

Soccer's FIFA-enforced preference for leagues strictly demarcated by national borders is not in sync with how Canadians typically think of sporting competition, at least at the pro level.

Edited August 12, 2023 by Colonel Green

[Colonel Green]

EDIT: Double-post. Stupid interface.

Edited August 12, 2023 by Colonel Green

[Haligonian#1]

The HFX Wanderers seemed to be a sold out affair today.

[SpursFlu]

Maybe because they've been so successful but nobody talking about Forge attendance rising and rising. Looks good again today

[jonovision]

5 minutes ago, SpursFlu said:

Maybe because they've been so successful but nobody talking about Forge attendance rising and rising. Looks good again today

I mention in it this thread almost every week. 5 years of never losing seems finally to have struck a chord with Hamilton sports fans.

[narduch]

2 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Not sure if it's still the case because I don't pay much attention to hockey but at one point MLSE were finding ways to force people buying certain types of ticket deals for their other teams to take Marlies tickets as part of the package.

Affectionately called ransom packs.

Cooked up by that asshole Paul Beirne no less.