CPL 2023 Season Attendance

[SpursFlu]

What's a sell out for Pacific? Look like the big game vs Whitecaps I'd already very close to being a sell out. I'm curious to see how many Caps fans will be in the stadium 

[narduch]

I'm eagerly awaiting Ozzie's analysis of TFC's announced attendance of 22,560 for last night.

[Cblake]

7 hours ago, narduch said:

I'm eagerly awaiting Ozzie's analysis of TFC's announced attendance of 22,560 for last night.

Considering TFC's season ticket base of over 20K that was number is pretty legit. 

[Tigers]

On 5/17/2023 at 3:55 AM, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

You clearly don't understand how internet forums work. Just as you don't get to dictate what other posters post, you also don't get to demand that other posters respond to your questions as if they are a performing seal at your command. I find your tone to be rude and impertinent and I therefore choose not to engage any further with you. 

I'm not dictating. Asking "why" is not saying "you must" . Pointing out that you never answer, is also not demanding that you do so. Just stating that it's the case. 

I've never dictated. Only asked. But it's okay. I, and everyone else, can see when you have something to say, and when you suddenly don't. 

[CDNFootballer]

Attendance for Forge vs Vancouver FC - 4378, a decent figure for a Friday night imo.

[jonovision]

Good to see Forge to finally get closer to the crowds you'd expect for a team that has known nothing but success for going on 5 years now. They must have a good STH base this year.

Edited May 20, 2023 by jonovision

[Haligonian#1]

Another match day for HFX Wanderers to prove that they are the undisputable attendance champions.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

^^^that's pretty much a given and with an announced crowd number that is actually credible in terms of what you see on the Onesoccer stream. It's too bad the league hasn't done more to try to emulate that elsewhere in midsized markets with strong local media rather than doubling down on trying to disrupt MLS markets from the outer 'burbs.

[Bison44]

^^^ Same old shit.  I should just copy and paste his response and post it before he gets a chance to.  

[Ansem]

3 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

^^^that's pretty much a given and with an announced crowd number that is actually credible in terms of what you see on the Onesoccer stream. It's too bad the league hasn't done more to try to emulate that elsewhere in midsized markets with strong local media rather than doubling down on trying to disrupt MLS markets from the outer 'burbs.

[longlugan]

3 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

^^^that's pretty much a given and with an announced crowd number that is actually credible in terms of what you see on the Onesoccer stream. It's too bad the league hasn't done more to try to emulate that elsewhere in midsized markets with strong local media rather than doubling down on trying to disrupt MLS markets from the outer 'burbs.

Still a douchebag 

[jonovision]

4 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

^^^that's pretty much a given and with an announced crowd number that is actually credible in terms of what you see on the Onesoccer stream. It's too bad the league hasn't done more to try to emulate that elsewhere in midsized markets with strong local media rather than doubling down on trying to disrupt MLS markets from the outer 'burbs.

Which mid-sized Canadian markets have  strong local media? Possibly the two Saskatchewan cities. "Local media", such as it is, in most other mid-sized cities in this country, does not really exist.

[BigBadBorto]

They didn't announce attendance today at Wanderers, but I would estimate slightly less than the home opener - so maybe 6,100 or so..    This will drop if the team doesn't start to perform.  They were awful today..

[Haligonian#1]

2 hours ago, BigBadBorto said:

They didn't announce attendance today at Wanderers, but I would estimate slightly less than the home opener - so maybe 6,100 or so..    This will drop if the team doesn't start to perform.  They were awful today..

I was there. The attendance was strong and I didn't really see any empty spots from the top row in my section. I would say that it was likely a sell-out. 

Obviously you haven't been paying attention to HFX Wanderers. We have been sucking since pretty much the start of the league and it has not impacted the fan base one bit. Imagine our attendance if we were a top two performing team. We would have to increase the seating capacity to 8,000. 

[Colonel Green]

10 minutes ago, Haligonian#1 said:

Obviously you haven't been paying attention to HFX Wanderers. We have been sucking since pretty much the start of the league and it has not impacted the fan base one bit. Imagine our attendance if we were a top two performing team. We would have to increase the seating capacity to 8,000. 

Yeah, this is something that I've thought the league as a whole might start to get concerned about.

Obviously the Wanderers' biggest advantages (the great location and the lack of competition from other sports in Halifax, since the Mooseheads largely don't overlap) aren't going to go away any time soon, but it would surely be nice if the league's most successful team from a commercial standpoint wasn't...so consistently bad. Best case, this is just limiting their growth; worst case, at a certain point interest is going to dwindle.

[Bison44]

I think it just goes to show if the games are fun and the atmosphere is good, that solves a lot of problems. 

[jonovision]

2775 for Valour yesterday. Better than home game  #3 in 2022 (which was a weekday night, a better draw in Winnipeg in summer as the Blue Bombers have figured out), and about the same as the Halifax game, but not good.

I was in a different section than usual, but fans did seem do me more into things than often is the case. Lots of love for Niyongabire's gymnastic celebration.

Edited May 21, 2023 by jonovision

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

13 hours ago, Colonel Green said:

...Best case, this is just limiting their growth; worst case, at a certain point interest is going to dwindle.

Given it's more difficult to attract players to Halifax and accomodation costs wind up getting folded into the cap by all accounts (meanwhile most Forge players can simply live at their regular home or apartment) they could be given some extra cap space to compensate for that. The league often seems to be configured to benefit Bob Young's team though.

For example, the U-21 players playing down rule that was suddenly announced helps the Forge use Sigma more effectively but isn't much use for Halifax and the Valour when there is no League 1 club locally willing to play along with the concept, which brings us full circle to it being more difficult to attract players to Halifax.

Edited May 21, 2023 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[BigBadBorto]

2 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Given it's more difficult to attract players to Halifax and accomodation costs wind up getting folded into the cap by all accounts (meanwhile most Forge players can simply live at their regular home or apartment) they could be given some extra cap space to compensate for that. The league often seems to be configured to benefit Bob Young's team though.

For example, the U-21 players playing down rule that was suddenly announced helps the Forge use Sigma more effectively but isn't much use for Halifax and the Valour when there is no League 1 club locally willing to play along with the concept, which brings us full circle to it being more difficult to attract players to Halifax.

The extra cap space would make sense.   Maybe it could be based on number of players requiring accommodations (ie not living with mom and dad  or having to move from home) figure out a formula loosely based on cost of accommodation (ex 10 months x $1,000= $10k extra per player requiring accommodation).  Profitable clubs like Halifax would likely be willing to spend a bit more to ensure a better team.

 

I do think that the big crowds and atmosphere are a draw for some overseas players to come to Halifax over other CPL cities, several  have mentioned this as a factor in deciding to come here

Edited May 21, 2023 by BigBadBorto

[Unnamed Trialist]

Re the HFX comments above: 

First, we've seen new U-Sports teams like at Cape Breton who have fed them some players, including internationals. The level is more competitive than before. 

Then, with the League One showcase in the Maritimes, the players have to know that is a way to get seen. If the League One emerges next summer, and they can be in the Voyageurs Cup by 2025, then you are going to start to have a base for drawing players from closer to home.

The third piece that would benefit HFX would be a team in CPL closer to them, like Québec City, just to reduce travel, and maybe find some more local synergies.

As for cost for players to move there: cost of living is cheaper in HFX than most other CPL markets, though I understand there is pressure on housing prices in Halifax, and in Nova Scotia, in recent years, with a bit of a rush of people moving out (a cousin sold his place in Vancouver and moved the family to Lunenburg area last summer).

[BigBadBorto]

2 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Re the HFX comments above: 

First, we've seen new U-Sports teams like at Cape Breton who have fed them some players, including internationals. The level is more competitive than before. 

Then, with the League One showcase in the Maritimes, the players have to know that is a way to get seen. If the League One emerges next summer, and they can be in the Voyageurs Cup by 2025, then you are going to start to have a base for drawing players from closer to home.

The third piece that would benefit HFX would be a team in CPL closer to them, like Québec City, just to reduce travel, and maybe find some more local synergies.

As for cost for players to move there: cost of living is cheaper in HFX than most other CPL markets, though I understand there is pressure on housing prices in Halifax, and in Nova Scotia, in recent years, with a bit of a rush of people moving out (a cousin sold his place in Vancouver and moved the family to Lunenburg area last summer).

Good points on u sports and also hopefully league 1 Maritime becomes a reality next year after a successful showcase this summer  

a team in Quebec would be great (and Moncton for that matter) but I haven’t seen indications that it’s getting closer to reality.  Prospective owners may be more nervous now with Edmonton and York situations 

 

[jonovision]

Some actual data I cobbled together quickly. Attendance comparison vs 2022 numbers, to current home date (ie: for most teams, comparing first three matches of 2022 with first three of 2023).

% change vs first few weeks of 2022:

1. Forge: +42%
2. Cavalry: +14%
3. Pacific: +12% (comparison for first 3 home dates only, home date #4 for 2023 not available)
4. Valour: +5%
5. York: -10%

I didn't include Ottawa or Halifax because each team only had one data point available (Ottawa had 1 out of 4 attendances provided, Halifax 1 out of 2).

As a sort of control to see to what extent gradual loosening of COVID restrictions and fears might play into it, I also included the 3 MLS sides, whose numbers are affected by other factors (the arrival of Italians, being total crap, having a successful 2022, etc.)

1. Montreal: +30% (mostly on the strength of their home opener)
2. Toronto: +4%
3. Vancouver: +2%

York obviously is in trouble, but a few consecutive YoY gains in the 12-14% range that Pacific and Cavalry are enjoying and the league will be in a good place. Valour with work to do, and Forge fans have finally figured out en masse that it's fun to watch a team that always wins.

Ottawa will be up a similar amount or more, if only they provided their numbers, while Halifax seems likely to continue to fill (or almost) their stadium each match.

Edited May 22, 2023 by jonovision

[BigBadBorto]

1 hour ago, jonovision said:

Some actual data I cobbled together quickly. Attendance comparison vs 2022 numbers, to current home date (ie: for most teams, comparing first three matches of 2022 with first three of 2023).

% change vs first few weeks of 2022:

1. Forge: +42%
2. Cavalry: +14%
3. Pacific: +12% (comparison for first 3 home dates only, home date #4 for 2023 not available)
4. Valour: +5%
5. York: -10%

I didn't include Ottawa or Halifax because each team only had one data point available (Ottawa had 1 out of 4 attendances provided, Halifax 1 out of 2).

As a sort of control to see to what extent gradual loosening of COVID restrictions and fears might play into it, I also included the 3 MLS sides, whose numbers are affected by other factors (the arrival of Italians, being total crap, having a successful 2022, etc.)

1. Montreal: +30% (mostly on the strength of their home opener)
2. Toronto: +4%
3. Vancouver: +2%

York obviously is in trouble, but a few consecutive YoY gains in the 12-14% range that Pacific and Cavalry are enjoying and the league will be in a good place. Valour with work to do, and Forge fans have finally figured out en masse that it's fun to watch a team that always wins.

Ottawa will be up a similar amount or more, if only they provided their numbers, while Halifax seems likely to continue to fill (or almost) their stadium each match.

Halifax is up from last year, when their first 2 games were 6213 and 5244 so an average of 5728.   Our first game this year was 6400 and 2nd game I’m certain was over 6,000

hopefully Ottawa numbers are also improved 

 

 

[shermanator]

Yesterday we had dozens of people on the supporters bus and in the supporters section for their first time just out to have a good time on a long weekend. Their energy was infectious and they jumped right into chanting and singing. Everyone talked about how much fun it was. Maybe they'll get seasons next year, maybe yesterday will be their only time at Spruce Meadows. But when they talk about Cavalry to others they'll talk about the fun they had.

This isn't complicated stuff. Make sure people have a good time and they'll be back.

Edited May 22, 2023 by shermanator

[jonovision]

^ Agreed. CPL soccer may not be for everyone, but with a lot of the teams there's something for almost everyone at the game. I was there with my brother and his family of four (the Valour family deal is one of the best value entertainment options in the city), all first-timers, and everyone had fun. Photos with the mascot, getting to kick a fuzzy ball at an inflatable dartboard to win a prize, etc., were hits with the kids. The 7-year old noticed how they passed a lot more than his Timbits soccer team (I didn't spoil the observation by noting that Valour could stand to be a little more direct). Everyone loved Wazzi's back flip celebration.

Little of this is stuff I'd care about if I was going to the game with friends or on my own. But it's there, and for some fans it's what will have them coming back. As ever, getting them out to the game for the first time is the major hurdle. That shouldn't be the job of the current fans but often it seems that's the reality.