September and October 2023 friendly matches (plans, speculation, rumours etc.)

[SpursFlu]

Just now, Colonel Green said:

If it was just five people, the players' group would not be making official statements like this one.

People in the know have already come out and said it's just a couple guys. How could it not if you actually think about it

[Colonel Green]

2 minutes ago, SpursFlu said:

People in the know have already come out and said it's just a couple guys. How could it not if you actually think about it

If you think about it, if an overwhelming supermajority of the team wanted a deal right now, we would have a deal and the players' official account wouldn't be making statements like this.

[SpursFlu]

4 minutes ago, Colonel Green said:

If you think about it, if an overwhelming supermajority of the team wanted a deal right now, we would have a deal and the players' official account wouldn't be making statements like this.

I think a lot players kinda just don't care and a couple shlubs have found a hill to die on. Have fun. If a shlub falls in the forest? And I'm a minority of person who cares about the cmnt in this country 

Edited August 18, 2023 by SpursFlu

[InglewoodJack]

12 minutes ago, SpursFlu said:

No idea.. who do you think?

I didn't say that this comes down to 5 cry babies, that was you brother. Who do you think those players are? We should get some guesses down on the thread. Players read this board, put their feet to the fire.

[Ottawafan]

The players haven’t been paid for their services in over 9 months according to the statement. No reason to believe that isn’t true otherwise Wheeler and Platt would have got their CSA approved marching orders to dispute it. 

Nobody here would continue to show up for work if the organization they represented wasn’t paying them. Nobody.

And yet we have posters continually ragging in the players. 

[InglewoodJack]

Basically, to argue that the players need to sack up and take the deal implies that our Men's National Team are extraordinarily greedy in a way that pretty much no other national team in the world is. It means that players playing in mid tier european leagues are greedier than the likes of Mbappe, Kane, Haaland, Pulisic, Ronaldo, Messi, so on so forth. And then it's a choice of whether you think it's guys like Davies, David, Larin, all making millions who are ruining the sport of soccer in their country over what basically amounts to less than a week's paycheck, or that it's lesser paid guys- the Liam Millars, the Ismael Kones, the Dayne St. Clairs, or maybe it's veterans like Osorio, Borjan, Vitoria who have just suddenly decided that after years of faithful NT service, they've decided to be greedy for reasons.

[InglewoodJack]

Just now, Ottawafan said:

The players haven’t been paid for their services in over 9 months according to the statement. No reason to believe that isn’t true otherwise Wheeler and Platt would have got their CSA approved marching orders to dispute it. 

Nobody here would continue to show up for work if the organization they represented wasn’t paying them. Nobody.

And yet we have posters continually ragging in the players. 

We simultaneously beg players to commit to Canada for no other reason than it would be cool for us to have new players, but turn around and tell the players to shut up and accept whatever they're given and say thank you. We whined when Stefan Mitrovic's offer from Serbia was "sweetened" for him to commit to them, but that same player would've committed to Canada and we would've told him to shut the fuck up and accept a free air canada rouge ticket (bag not included) if he wanted to wear the Canada jersey. These players deserve nothing, have earned squat and shouldn't say anything about it, but also, they should be dying to play for our country. If not, we'll field a team of CPLers who would drop our world ranking back down to the triple digits and also, fuck the fans for not supporting that.

[Ottawafan]

10 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

We simultaneously beg players to commit to Canada for no other reason than it would be cool for us to have new players, but turn around and tell the players to shut up and accept whatever they're given and say thank you. We whined when Stefan Mitrovic's offer from Serbia was "sweetened" for him to commit to them, but that same player would've committed to Canada and we would've told him to shut the fuck up and accept a free air canada rouge ticket (bag not included) if he wanted to wear the Canada jersey. These players deserve nothing, have earned squat and shouldn't say anything about it, but also, they should be dying to play for our country. If not, we'll field a team of CPLers who would drop our world ranking back down to the triple digits and also, fuck the fans for not supporting that.

Well said. 

[InglewoodJack]

6 minutes ago, Ottawafan said:

Well said. 

There are basically 3 types of players on our team: elite stars that don't need the NT at all, mid level players who have used the national team to elevate their career and club opportunities, and players who are low paid and are just happy for the opportunity. I struggle to imagine a reason why players in any of those groups would derail the entire national program in a way that either doesn't affect them because they don't need the NT, or players for whom it would negatively affect their team.

If it's the elite stars who have an issue with this, they'd have no issue throwing the women under the bus if it truly was the gender equality part that was the issue here. If it was the players we don't really need, the rest of the team would tell them to fuck off. I'm sure there's a variety of opinions on what to do here on the national team, but singing out this supposed handful of troublemakers makes absolute zero sense unless there is inside information I'm not privy to.

[Corazon]

Sounds like Piette is one of the 5 or infinite of Canadian players to be upset with the situation.  This was taken from a Instagram post from CanMNTBible:

Samuel Piette on Canada Soccer scheduling one game in October:

🗣️ “It doesn’t make sense we qualified for a World Cup and we don’t have the finances for that”

Piette also blamed the CSB deal for Canada Soccer’s financial struggles.

(Elias Laradi/Nothern Tribune)

Edited August 18, 2023 by Corazon

[MrR]

I support the players 100%. The time has come to dismantle the CSA!

[El Hombre]

40 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

Basically, to argue that the players need to sack up and take the deal implies that our Men's National Team are extraordinarily greedy in a way that pretty much no other national team in the world is. It means that players playing in mid tier european leagues are greedier than the likes of Mbappe, Kane, Haaland, Pulisic, Ronaldo, Messi, so on so forth. And then it's a choice of whether you think it's guys like Davies, David, Larin, all making millions who are ruining the sport of soccer in their country over what basically amounts to less than a week's paycheck, or that it's lesser paid guys- the Liam Millars, the Ismael Kones, the Dayne St. Clairs, or maybe it's veterans like Osorio, Borjan, Vitoria who have just suddenly decided that after years of faithful NT service, they've decided to be greedy for reasons.

Sure, but on the other side of things, the guy saying that there is no money to go around or that the players' requests are impossible, personally sacrificed more for soccer in this country than any of these kids could hope to have.  I'm just supposed to believe that this guy who has bled more to get Canada to an elite level in world soccer has just recently become unreasonable?  And that he's willing to sacrifice moving Canada forward in order to placate a few fatcats in suits?

There's always two sides.

[MrR]

Hopefully, one is allowed to voice his support for the players.

[MrR]

Edit

Edited August 18, 2023 by MrR

[MrR]

In the end, the Court of Public Opinion will preside and deliver a verdict.

Long live Queen Christine and the drag-Kings of CONCACAF.

[InglewoodJack]

12 minutes ago, El Hombre said:

Sure, but on the other side of things, the guy saying that there is no money to go around or that the players' requests are impossible, personally sacrificed more for soccer in this country than any of these kids could hope to have.  I'm just supposed to believe that this guy who has bled more to get Canada to an elite level in world soccer has just recently become unreasonable?  And that he's willing to sacrifice moving Canada forward in order to placate a few fatcats in suits?

There's always two sides.

Is the guy you're talking about DeVos? If so, I agree that he's not just being a stooge so that a few moderately rich fatcats can get moderately more rich, I also don't think that no one person can dictate what an organization does. I think the reality is a lot more mundane than we think it is. Canada needed a domestic league to host the world cup, Canada needed a revenue stream to fund the league, and Canada Soccer needed revenue before we went on our streak. CSB had the leverage, used it to get themselves an excellent deal, the program exceeded any realistic expectation for how quickly our NT would rise, and now we're at a point where there's a terrible 20-year contract on the books, and that agreement didn't contemplate the fact that our players hold enough power and public opinion to strike and demand equal pay with our women, and now Canada Soccer's two main stakeholders- the players and CSB are at odds with non negotiable demands- the former wants equality and fair pay, the other wants the agreement they signed to be respected.

Government has to step in and invest an exponentially larger amount into the team, or the CSB has to renegotiate their deal. I don't really see any other solution that allows us to continue to compete at a high level, and I can't imagine either of those things actually happening. But if neither happen, within 5 years, the CSB's deal will turn negative for them, because no one will care about our national team.

[Watchmen]

4 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

and now Canada Soccer's two main stakeholders- the players and CSB are at odds with non negotiable demands- the former wants equality and fair pay, the other wants the agreement they signed to be respected.

Government has to step in and invest an exponentially larger amount into the team, or the CSB has to renegotiate their deal. I don't really see any other solution that allows us to continue to compete at a high level, and I can't imagine either of those things actually happening. But if neither happen, within 5 years, the CSB's deal will turn negative for them, because no one will care about our national team.

CSB said repeatedly they were willing to renegotiate, and I'm sort of curious as to where that's gone.

[InglewoodJack]

1 minute ago, Watchmen said:

CSB said repeatedly they were willing to renegotiate, and I'm sort of curious as to where that's gone.

Yeah, I recall that- I wonder what they're willing to negotiate. They're a business, they can't just give Canada unilaterally more favourable term because CS has zero leverage. My fear would be that they leverage a higher payout for a longer term deal. Extend that contract to 30 years in exchange for $6M/yr or whatever. Something that'll screw us over next cycle. Just speculating, but a lot of time, that's how contract renegos go.

[El Hombre]

7 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

Is the guy you're talking about DeVos? If so, I agree that he's not just being a stooge so that a few moderately rich fatcats can get moderately more rich, I also don't think that no one person can dictate what an organization does. I think the reality is a lot more mundane than we think it is. Canada needed a domestic league to host the world cup, Canada needed a revenue stream to fund the league, and Canada Soccer needed revenue before we went on our streak. CSB had the leverage, used it to get themselves an excellent deal, the program exceeded any realistic expectation for how quickly our NT would rise, and now we're at a point where there's a terrible 20-year contract on the books, and that agreement didn't contemplate the fact that our players hold enough power and public opinion to strike and demand equal pay with our women, and now Canada Soccer's two main stakeholders- the players and CSB are at odds with non negotiable demands- the former wants equality and fair pay, the other wants the agreement they signed to be respected.

Government has to step in and invest an exponentially larger amount into the team, or the CSB has to renegotiate their deal. I don't really see any other solution that allows us to continue to compete at a high level, and I can't imagine either of those things actually happening. But if neither happen, within 5 years, the CSB's deal will turn negative for them, because no one will care about our national team.

For the most part I agree with this, especially the part about the CSB and players being at odds.  The issue is that one of those parties is naively negotiating through press releases and the media.  No way will this come to an amicable solution so long as that keeps happening.  Especially with bush league press releases like that one. 

If the players want a bigger piece of the pie, they need to be ready to negotiate which means being willing to sacrifice.  Complaining that they aren't getting friendlies in September (especially when we're a month out from when half of them took the Gold Cup off) isn't going to cut it.  If Canada Soccer is threatening to not field a team for Nations League, well be ready to call their bluff.

[Watchmen]

2 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

Yeah, I recall that- I wonder what they're willing to negotiate. They're a business, they can't just give Canada unilaterally more favourable term because CS has zero leverage. My fear would be that they leverage a higher payout for a longer term deal. Extend that contract to 30 years in exchange for $6M/yr or whatever. Something that'll screw us over next cycle. Just speculating, but a lot of time, that's how contract renegos go.

Maybe, though I think any renegotiation can't result in a fixed payment. I do tend to think that the CSB knows if the NT does implode it's bad for their business as well. So there technically is a leverage point by the CSA.

[SpursFlu]

1 hour ago, Colonel Green said:

If you think about it, if an overwhelming supermajority of the team wanted a deal right now, we would have a deal and the players' official account wouldn't be making statements like this.

There is no team. If you get a new coach tomorrow. You could have 24 fresh new players in theory 

We actually almost saw that literally happen for various  reasons within the period of a month recently 

I really dont understand this concept that there are players on this team and not on this team?

Half the the time on this forum we can barely figure out who is eligible to play for Canada now we have a group who's apparently have an undisputable spot on Canada for as long as they want?

Edited August 18, 2023 by SpursFlu

[Kadenge]

1 minute ago, El Hombre said:

For the most part I agree with this, especially the part about the CSB and players being at odds.  The issue is that one of those parties is naively negotiating through press releases and the media.  No way will this come to an amicable solution so long as that keeps happening.  Especially with bush league press releases like that one. 

If the players want a bigger piece of the pie, they need to be ready to negotiate which means being willing to sacrifice.  Complaining that they aren't getting friendlies in September (especially when we're a month out from when half of them took the Gold Cup off) isn't going to cut it.  If Canada Soccer is threatening to not field a team for Nations League, well be ready to call their bluff.

The leverage is that the performance of the National teams drives Corp sponsorship. Lack of funds to support games/camps, committments from dual nationals will have an impact on the "product" that CSB/CSA is selling to Corp Canada.  We are in a crtical 3 yr period leading to 2026 with Copa America in 2024. The CSB know there is a lot more money to be made over that period...but only if the team gets results.  As @Watchmen posted above, any amendment would have to include a % of revenue subject to certain revenue thresholds.

[InglewoodJack]

22 minutes ago, El Hombre said:

For the most part I agree with this, especially the part about the CSB and players being at odds.  The issue is that one of those parties is naively negotiating through press releases and the media.  No way will this come to an amicable solution so long as that keeps happening.  Especially with bush league press releases like that one. 

If the players want a bigger piece of the pie, they need to be ready to negotiate which means being willing to sacrifice.  Complaining that they aren't getting friendlies in September (especially when we're a month out from when half of them took the Gold Cup off) isn't going to cut it.  If Canada Soccer is threatening to not field a team for Nations League, well be ready to call their bluff.

What other leverage do the players have other than making it a public issue? fans like the players, not the exec. I get it looks a certain way, but a big reason why we the fans know about CSB and all of this is because the player’s side has shared this transparency. 

[Cadeau]

3 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

What other leverage do the players have other than making it a public issue? fans like the players, not the exec. I get it looks a certain way, but a big reason why we the fans know about CSB and all of this is because the player’s side has shared this transparency. 

That’s right! You use leverage when you have it, not when you don’t have any! 

[dyslexic nam]

1 hour ago, Ottawafan said:

The players haven’t been paid for their services in over 9 months according to the statement. No reason to believe that isn’t true otherwise Wheeler and Platt would have got their CSA approved marching orders to dispute it. 

So just to clarify, if Wheels and Platt contest claims made by the players, they are just paid shills spreading propaganda.  But if they don’t contest the claims made by players, it 100% proves the players correct.  

Did I get that right?