Moise Bombito

[finchster]

34 minutes ago, Sal333 said:

Nice research and good points my only quibble is you bothered to specify Canadian lower leagues but you didn't specify American college.

I meant that when I wrote college, 

[Kadenge]

17 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Given St Clair, Laryea, Buchanan, Johnston, Bombito, Hiebert, Larin, Oluwaseyi have all emerged that way in terms of the Copa America roster it's definitely still a significant pathway.

And should continue to be a pathway, but with better scouting, some of those players could and should have been in pro academies. While some players are "late developers", I believe that thinking is influenced by North American Pro sports where physicality plays a big part vs soccer. Players like Kone, Laryea, Tajon etc have inherent skills that should have been visible from an early age. Bombito's athletic abilities alone should have been clear at the age of 16/17/18

[costarg]

7 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

That "absolute shitshow" still managed to produce Jacob Shaffelburg and Jacen Russell-Rowe in recent times so that they are playing as domestic players in the United States in MLS.

Bit of a stretch to say TFC produced JRR.  Played 1 match for TFCIII and minutes for TFCII.  Crew gave TFC $50k for him, estimated value is now $2M.  They obviously did not understand what they had in their hands. 

Same for Shaffini, they underestimated what he could and did become.  $300 GAM for a player now worth $5.5M 2 years later.

[narduch]

7 minutes ago, costarg said:

Bit of a stretch to say TFC produced JRR.  Played 1 match for TFCIII and minutes for TFCII.  Crew gave TFC $50k for him, estimated value is now $2M.  They obviously did not understand what they had in their hands. 

Same for Shaffini, they underestimated what he could and did become.  $300 GAM for a player now worth $5.5M 2 years later.

Hard to give TFC credit for Shaffelburg when they almost drove him out of the game entirely.

[InglewoodJack]

Re: college dev- does anyone know much about strength of school and how that affects our players? I know Bombito went to UNH which I think made the national final 16 once while he was there. AJ went to Wake Forest which is a big school in soccer and Tajon went to Syracuse which I know is at least big in other sports. Curious if there’s a correlation between top schools and future prospects or if all these guys are basically turning pro in spite of the NCAA.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

42 minutes ago, costarg said:

...Same for Shaffini, they underestimated what he could and did become.  $300 GAM for a player now worth $5.5M 2 years later.

What does that have to do with whether he was a TFC development product or not? From the age of 16 they developed him through a series of academy teams and their USL One team to Homegrown Player status on the first team roster. That means he can play in the USA as a domestic player and doesn't need an international roster spot. It's worth having a look at who was on the USL One team with him on 2019:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Toronto_FC_II_season

Only one of the Canadian players is back at League One sort of level in a Gabe Gala, Joey Melo and Andrea Lombardo from the early years of TFC sort of way. The rest have some sort of pro career underway including several in CanPL.

[Ottawafan]

6 hours ago, finchster said:

Development in Canada is an extension of the US/MLS development, and looking at the players in the Copa America illustrates that. I think this type of development has pluses and minuses.

 

Plus

Most players are not ready to be full-time pros until their early 20s.

We can piggyback on the US development system, which has produced many good players.

 

Minus

Elite players can find it challenging to break through and get playing time.

Playing for any pro league will end your NCAA eligibility.

 

St. Clair - College

Crepeau - MLS Montreal

McGill – Europe

 

Johnson - College

de Fougerolles - Europe

Miller - College

Waterman - Can lower leagues

Cornelius -Can lower leagues/ Europe

Bombito - College

Davies - MLS Vancouver

Laryea - College

Ahmed - MLS Vancouver

Hiebert – College

 

Piette - Europe

Eustáquio - Europe

Kone - Can lower leagues/MLS Montreal

Osorio - South America

Choinière - MLS Montreal

 

Larin - college

David - Europe

Bair - MLS Whitecaps

Russell-Rowe - MLS Toronto/College

Shaffelburg - MLS Toronto

Millar - Europe

Tani - College

 

9 college

8 MLS

7 Europe

3 Can lower leagues

1 South America

 

The best thing for Canadian development would be for the CPL to make itself a viable avenue for players to go to Europe. The more players that get sold to Europe, the more players will be willing to develop in Canadian clubs rather than in college.

 

I think it is about making professional football more viable so the top talents go pro and the people who might be late bloomers go to college.

I do understand the point you are making but I would like to see further breakdown of the development path for these players. 

To say David's development was in Europe isn't accurate.  He played locally in Ottawa until he was 18 and was coached/developed outside the pro academies.  All these players had a similar path, some spending more time or less time in an actual MLS/European academy.  If a player is developed in one club for 7 years and then signs with an academy for a year or two before turning pro, should the academy get the credit for developing this young man?

[Unnamed Trialist]

On 7/22/2024 at 6:55 AM, AnonymousInsider said:

I agree with everything you said, except this. I've watched how these games go between teams who play provincially and teams who play in MLS Next, and it's almost always a brutal outcome for the local teams, and that's usually with the local teams being older. These clubs do get tested, and prevail with ease. I'd like to give this example. Toronto FC U-19s were playing in League 1 Reserves last fall, with nearly the whole roster being 2006 for TFC. Bear in mind, a few guys were missing because they were with TFC2 as well, so not at full strength. They faced the previous season's League 1 Reserves champions, Rush Academy. The score was 8-0 for TFC. This was Rush Academy's only loss of the regular season, the rest were wins. Vaughan Azzurri SC, another local powerhouse, also fell 8-0 to TFC. People criticize TFC for a lot of things, much of it warranted. But I really do disagree with the notion that they don't find the vast majority of the best players at these ages, at least in recent years, but we just haven't seen that translate to the men's national team yet. I'd be very surprised if we still have as many CANMNT contributors in their early 20s from the provincial clubs as we do now. Where TFC is screwing up is what they do with the players as they transition to the pro game. But the specific point you're making here is wrong IMO. I think this narrative comes a lot from bitter parents based on the discussions I've had with them in Ontario and what I've overheard, and a lot of people believe it because it places blame easily on a common enemy. If MLS academies played locally at all age groups, it wouldn't be enough of a challenge for them, especially as the kids get older.

It is a good point, but I think you are not talking about the same thing I am. We are talking about players falling through the cracks, which means those not getting to the MLS clubs. 

I am not concerned so much about those guys, who are identified. I am concerned about the rest. Those are scores reflecting 3-4 tier gaps. When the tier below the MLS u-19s should be one tier below, or a tier and a half, say.

I can assure you that in u-19 in the big European countries, the lesser clubs can play with the powerhouses and blowouts are not of that nature at all. My local u-19 in Barcelona, promoted twice and went up to to the national 2nd tier and did not relegate, played the B teams of Barça and Espanyol, beat the latter, the club itself has its senior team in 7th tier! None of those kids pay more than the annual fee of 200 euros, then monthly it is 50 over 10 months, then insurance, and some travel. It is probably 1000 euros a year, but the club subsidizes those from more modest families. They are a feisty bunch, mostly working and middle class, there is a Hungarian-American kid from Washington state and then an Azeri, a Finn whose family moved there for work, then Dominican, Moroccan and Senegalese immigrants, and mostly Catalan working class--I bet they could stand and deliver for 90 minutes vs. any MLS academy.

First, because they are all in tiers with promotion and relegation. Every game matters and you can't con anyone with what you are offering as a club, the results are everything. Second, because a team wants to avoid relegation to sell the league level to prospective kids, they let them play at a low cost or free. Kids are not paying for the coaches, the competitive model is. Third, because they are part of larger clubs that could be pro or semi pro, they do have the idea that maybe a future transfer could happen. The dad of the Finn told me most of those kids with another year's eligibility were looking to move up to the top tier if they could. Then they have collaborative deals with bigger clubs, even the coaches work scouting for higher level clubs, so they are not constantly raided (which is illegal in any case, as even an 8 year old belongs to his club for a season under a federated amateur contract): so they make deals. And finally, because of course the path to pro is not through three teams in a country of 40 million, but something in the way of 80-140 clubs (depending on the model in England, Spain, Italy, Germany).

The real point is that the u-19s of MLS clubs should really be playing in the same tiered system as everyone else. It is the way in every league in the world. When we see these teams from MLS clubs in League Ones, like in BC, and they don't blow everyone out of the water, then we are getting closer to reality.

[Borjans Sweatpants]

 

[Obinna]

1 hour ago, Borjans Sweatpants said:

 

Looked good there but didn't look so good on the 4-1 goal, where he lost his footing and left the keeper 1 v 1 with the goal scorer.

I love Bombito and believe he will be in a top 5 league soon, but we should be careful not to gloss over the mistakes and only share the good. Otherwise, we may be setting up unrealistic expectations of him in our minds. The reality is, he has a ton of upside but is still raw and makes a lot of mistakes.

[PastPros]

20 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Looked good there but didn't look so good on the 4-1 goal, where he lost his footing and left the keeper 1 v 1 with the goal scorer.

I love Bombito and believe he will be in a top 5 league soon, but we should be careful not to gloss over the mistakes and only share the good. Otherwise, we may be setting up unrealistic expectations of him in our minds. The reality is, he has a ton of upside but is still raw and makes a lot of mistakes.

Unrealistic expectations on this board? Never!

(So many quotes come to mind: e.g. "Osaze De Rosario's potential is limitless", etc)

I think the general consensus here is that Bombito needs more experience, and will hopefully learn from the mistakes he will invetiably make.

Edited July 25 by PastPros

[kingvikingstad]

41 minutes ago, PastPros said:

Unrealistic expectations on this board? Never!

(So many quotes come to mind: e.g. "Osaze De Rosario's potential is limitless", etc)

I think the general consensus here is that Bombito needs more experience, and will hopefully learn from the mistakes he will invetiably make.

100%. He's also relatively new to the position isn't he? There's a reason many CBs hit their prime later.

Someone will feel like they can coach those mistakes out of him or let him play through them so that he can get to a next level and/or transfer price.

[jonovision]

I also don't want to go to the same "Europe great, MLS crap" well that many here like to, but I do think coaching of defensive posture and technique would be better in a big European team than what he has experienced so far.

Not to mention that an all-star game is just about the worst place to judge one's defending, where tactics and teammates will be so unfamiliar to you.

Edited July 25 by jonovision

[Obinna]

1 minute ago, jonovision said:

I also don't want to go to the same "Europe great, MLS crap" well that many here like to, but I do think coaching of defensive posture and technique would be better in a big European team than what he has experienced so far.

Not to mention that an all-star game is just about the worst place to judge one's defending, where tactics and teammates will be so unfamiliar to you.

I mean it was a slip on the grass. Not sure how much that has to do with tactics, although it's a good point if you are just speaking generally. Hard to judge much of anything in an All-star game, especially on the defensive end.  

Davies seemed to often slip on grass a few years ago. Now we see that less from him. Maybe that's experience or maybe something else, I don't know. 

[costarg]

What's wild is for years we'd watch Vitoria in that situation, he'd strategically place himself in the way of Rondon's run, block, hold or trip him and draw a yellow, or he'd get blown past and put his partner in a messy situation and his partner would have to get the yellow, or Borjan would have to do his magic and we'd be like "ya, that's experience!".

Now we have this diamond who manages to fix his own mistakes and make highlight reels without drawing cards, who's still figuring out his timing playing against elite level strikers, cause he's only been doing this for a few months, and we're like "ya, he's got soo much to learn".  

We're a really tough crowd.

[Obinna]

1 minute ago, costarg said:

What's wild is for years we'd watch Vitoria in that situation, he'd strategically place himself in the way of Rondon's run, block, hold or trip him and draw a yellow, or he'd get blown past and put his partner in a messy situation and his partner would have to get the yellow, or Borjan would have to do his magic and we'd be like "ya, that's experience!".

Now we have this diamond who manages to fix his own mistakes and make highlight reels without drawing cards, who's still figuring out his timing playing against elite level strikers, cause he's only been doing this for a few months, and we're like "ya, he's got soo much to learn".  

We're a really tough crowd.

Bombito has picked up 5 yellow cards for club and country this calander year, in 26 games.

His more experienced CB partner, Cornelius, has picked up 4 yellow cards for club and country this calendar year, in 26 games (ironically they've played same number of games in 2024).

That is to say Bombito is doing good for an inexperienced CB.

I had thought he picked up back-to-back yellows since Copa, and was going to get a little critical, but I was mistaken. Then, after digging into the stats it is clear he is doing quite well, only picking up 5 cards is not bad.

Good reminder to check the facts before you pop off.

[costarg]

1 minute ago, Obinna said:

Bombito has picked up 5 yellow cards for club and country this calander year, in 26 games.

His more experienced CB partner, Cornelius, has picked up 4 yellow cards for club and country this calendar year, in 26 games (ironically they've played same number of games in 2024).

That is to say Bombito is doing good for an inexperienced CB.

I had thought he picked up back-to-back yellows since Copa, and was going to get a little critical, but I was mistaken. Then, after digging into the stats it is clear he is doing quite well, only picking up 5 cards is not bad.

Good reminder to check the facts before you pop off.

I didn't mean "he doesn't get yellows",  I meant "he didn't get a yellow in that play" which is something we'd seen happen with the old guard.

[InglewoodJack]

19 minutes ago, costarg said:

What's wild is for years we'd watch Vitoria in that situation, he'd strategically place himself in the way of Rondon's run, block, hold or trip him and draw a yellow, or he'd get blown past and put his partner in a messy situation and his partner would have to get the yellow, or Borjan would have to do his magic and we'd be like "ya, that's experience!".

Now we have this diamond who manages to fix his own mistakes and make highlight reels without drawing cards, who's still figuring out his timing playing against elite level strikers, cause he's only been doing this for a few months, and we're like "ya, he's got soo much to learn".  

We're a really tough crowd.

I think people are naturally going to be a little more reserved when it comes to prospects who if all goes well can become a legitimate top player in the world at his position. Jesse Marsch is saying his talent is on par with the best CBs he’s ever coached. Someone compared the way we hype players up between Bombito and Osasze De Rosario, the latter could’ve been a nice player, but not ever a guy who’s going top 5 league, 8 figure transfer value, etc. Easier to dream about players like that, I think.

His mistakes will always be easier to point out. He’s a fast, dynamic player and will mess up by exposing himself or ending up in risky areas of the pitch instead of just being a weak defender that makes his opponent look like he beat him on skill. Still have to keep in mind the insane progression he’s experienced from last year, where he was a *bad* defender to this year, where he’s one of the best in North America. 

 

[El Diego]

RB Salzburg now in for Bombito according to Scianitti. I can't stand that outfit, hope he doesn't go there.

[jordan]

2 minutes ago, El Diego said:

RB Salzburg now in for Bombito according to Scianitti. I can't stand that outfit, hope he doesn't go there.

Hope he does. Put in an environment expected to win and improve

[Borjans Sweatpants]

15 minutes ago, El Diego said:

RB Salzburg now in for Bombito according to Scianitti. I can't stand that outfit, hope he doesn't go there.

Wonder if Marsch put in a good word. Or if they just listened to what he said at his press conference of being in the same talent level of Gvardiol etc.

[El Diego]

1 hour ago, jordan said:

Hope he does. Put in an environment expected to win and improve

I can't deny their success but I hate their model

[Unnamed Trialist]

2 hours ago, El Diego said:

RB Salzburg now in for Bombito according to Scianitti. I can't stand that outfit, hope he doesn't go there.

As observed, that could be a Marsch recommendation. 

My only problem is that Austria league is not better than MLS, you are not going to be challenged any more than in Colorado. In fact, I bet you have tricker and a greater diversity of types of strikers to deal with in MLS.

[Obinna]

2 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

As observed, that could be a Marsch recommendation. 

My only problem is that Austria league is not better than MLS, you are not going to be challenged any more than in Colorado. In fact, I bet you have tricker and a greater diversity of types of strikers to deal with in MLS.

Kind of like Johnston going to Celtic. Few of us would disagree it was for the better.

I love the idea of Bombito in Ligue 1, but ultimately I would be happy with RB Salzburg. Guaranteed European competition and a lot of playing time. 

[Unnamed Trialist]

20 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Kind of like Johnston going to Celtic. Few of us would disagree it was for the better.

I love the idea of Bombito in Ligue 1, but ultimately I would be happy with RB Salzburg. Guaranteed European competition and a lot of playing time. 

For me Celtic is a bigger club, the intensity of Scotland is higher, there is a key rival which raises the tension. But I don't think Scotland is much better football than Austria, and I do think going to the top club is better, unless you think if things don't go well it is easier to be benched. They could easily bury him there.

For me, lower half Ligue 1 would be better, though Ligue 1 overemphasizes physicality and probably it'd be better to be in a more technical environment. Braga in Portugal, say, or one of the top 4-5 in Holland or Belgium. The guy has to learn a more tactical way of playing, not just unfold his physical prowess.

Edited July 27 by Unnamed Trialist