Moise Bombito

[costarg]

11 minutes ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

Not sure "completely tear apart" is fair assessment of just about any post I have seen on Bombito.   

I dunno, I feel we've been pretty harsh on the 4 guys I mentioned.  I won't start quoting though.

11 minutes ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

You have been harsher on some players, no?

I've been harsh, absolutely.  I don't know if it was "harsher".  I can think of a couple of examples. 

I (along with fans and media) judged and criticized Borjan's juggling the ball just before Jamaica scored on him.  It wasn't necessary or part of the play.  A guy with that much experience should know better.  Bombito or Kone making a bad pass is a little more forgivable as well as expected given the level and experience.

I accepted Vitoria's limitations, what I did judge, was Biello still playing him when it was obvious we needed to start planning for the future.

Edited Tuesday at 07:04 PM by costarg

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

1 minute ago, costarg said:

I dunno, I feel we've been pretty harsh on the 4 guys I mentioned.  I won't start quoting though.

I've been harsh, absolutely.  I don't know if it was "harsher".  I can think of a couple of examples. 

I (along with fans and media) judged and criticized Borjan's juggling the ball just before Jamaica scored on him.  It wasn't necessary or part of the play.  A guy with that much experience should know better.  Bombito or Kone making a bad pass is a little more forgivable as well as expected given the level and experience.

I accepted Vitoria's limitations, what I did judge, was Biello still playing him when it was obvious we needed to start planning for the future.

Honestly unless you are going to give examples of the latter,  my memory is you being pretty repeatedly relentless - "we all know"  - on players you thought were done, much harsher than anything I have seen on Bombito.

People have different opinions and if you are okay calling out some players, don't be surprised when others do the same with others.

[costarg]

3 minutes ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

 "we all know"  - on players you thought were done

Oh but they are/were.  Haven't been selected since.  I wasn't wrong.  Sorry, not trying to be arrogant, just being direct, without fluff.

3 minutes ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

People have different opinions and if you are okay calling out some players, don't be surprised when others do the same with others.

Ya I'm ok with that.  Wanted to point out that if we're gonna point out every mistake or inexperienced play a young guy makes, it should also be ok to point out an experienced guys gaffes.

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

2 minutes ago, costarg said:

Oh but they are/were.  Haven't been selected since.  I wasn't wrong.  Sorry, not trying to be arrogant, just being direct, without fluff.

Ya I'm ok with that.  Wanted to point out that if we're gonna point out every mistake or inexperienced play a young guy makes, it should also be ok to point out an experienced guys gaffes.

For me, the "we all know" was you selectively critiquing past performances, often when we had success, not whether or not they were going to be selected again.

Before you dislocate your elbow patting yourself on the the back, 😄 not sure anyone argued most of the guys in question weren't done.

Again no one has "completely torn apart" Bombito that I have seen.  If you are allowed to be "direct" so are others, even in regards to players you like.

[costarg]

58 minutes ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

Before you dislocate your elbow patting yourself on the the back, 😄 not sure anyone argued most of the guys in question weren't done.

No, I will call it what it is, lots of guys were calling Vitoria and Borjan automatic starters vs T&T and shocked by their omission.  We can go back and find that easily.

1 hour ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

Again no one has "completely torn apart" Bombito that I have seen.  If you are allowed to be "direct" so are others, even in regards to players you like.

People did question Bombito's level, experience, play and the transfer rumours.  The other 3 also received heavy comments and critiques.  Like I said, I'm ok with that.  Just question the pearl clutching when it comes to doing the same with the senior guys.  

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

8 minutes ago, costarg said:

No, I will call it what it is, lots of guys were calling Vitoria and Borjan automatic starters vs T&T and shocked by their omission.  We can go back and find that easily.

People did question Bombito's level, experience, play and the transfer rumours.  The other 3 also received heavy comments and critiques.  Like I said, I'm ok with that.  Just question the pearl clutching when it comes to doing the same with the senior guys.  

Ha. Go find them then, while you massage that elbow.

Mate, this started with your "pearl clutching" when people have dared to critique aspects of Bombito's game. Saying someone got torn apart is not saying you are okay with something.

You see that right?

Have a good rest of the game day. I hope Bombito has a perfect game just like everyone else on our side.

Edited Tuesday at 08:50 PM by WestHamCanadianinOxford

[costarg]

1 hour ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

Ha. Go find them then, while you massage that elbow.

No, there is no point in going dig up another persons post to prove someone wrong.

1 hour ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

Mate, this started with your "pearl clutching" when people have dared to critique aspects of Bombito's game. Saying someone got torn apart is not saying you are okay with something.

Also no, it was me pointing out how we expect inexperienced young guys to play like vets while accepting mediocrity from the vets and no one is allowed to say anything about their sub par performances.  It's not the same thing.

1 hour ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

Have a good rest of the game day. I hope Bombito has a perfect game just like everyone else on our side.

Fingers crossed!  Have a good one!  Cheers!

[Ngravs]

a family member told me at the game Lyon 5 million was confirmed. 

[AnonymousInsider]

Lyon just signed Niakhate, Centre Back, from Nottingham Forest for £20m. Not sure if that deters them from Bombito but it’s something to take note of regarding his potential playing time next season. Per Fabrizio Romano btw.

[sebdeserio]

6 minutes ago, AnonymousInsider said:

Lyon just signed Niakhate, Centre Back, from Nottingham Forest for £20m. Not sure if that deters them from Bombito but it’s something to take note of regarding his potential playing time next season. Per Fabrizio Romano btw.

Lyon fans seem to think Bombito's a Botafogo signing who if he reaches his potential will then move to Lyon, which makes sense as this would be a massive jump and he needs to be starting.

[InglewoodJack]

35 minutes ago, sebdeserio said:

Lyon fans seem to think Bombito's a Botafogo signing who if he reaches his potential will then move to Lyon, which makes sense as this would be a massive jump and he needs to be starting.

I feel like playing in Brazil is a lot harder of a jump than moving to france. League quality probably isn’t that much worse, plus Botafogo (and most Brazilian teams) barely ever recruit from outside of South America. They currently only have one player from outside of the region, an Angolan, so he speaks Portuguese. Plus… those fans. At least at Lyon he speaks the language, could probably integrate more easily and supporters will probably be kinder after a bad game than those in Brazil. 

[Obinna]

4 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

I feel like playing in Brazil is a lot harder of a jump than moving to france. League quality probably isn’t that much worse, plus Botafogo (and most Brazilian teams) barely ever recruit from outside of South America. They currently only have one player from outside of the region, an Angolan, so he speaks Portuguese. Plus… those fans. At least at Lyon he speaks the language, could probably integrate more easily and supporters will probably be kinder after a bad game than those in Brazil. 

Don't know if you caught it, but Thiago Almada just signed with the Eagle group as well, for 20M. The plan for him is to play with Botafogo until December, then move to Lyon.

Granted, it's easier for an Argentine to adjust to Brazil than a French-Canadian, but nonetheless it's another import for the Brazilian side.

[InglewoodJack]

1 minute ago, Obinna said:

Don't know if you caught it, but Thiago Almada just signed with the Eagle group as well, for 20M. The plan for him is to play with Botafogo until December, then move to Lyon.

Granted, it's easier for an Argentine to adjust to Brazil than a French-Canadian, but nonetheless it's another import for the Brazilian side.

I did hear that Almada was purchased by them, but I thought he was going to Crystal Palace, which I think they also own. I hadn’t heard the part about Botafogo, interesting. 
 

The language barrier is one factor, but it’s more just about having to play in Brazil and all that entails. Playing for a big club (they qualified for Copa Libertadores) in the world’s most intense soccer market doesn’t scream “incremental step” to me. Though if he goes and can play this well against those crowds and in Copa Libertadores, with all the insane travelling, I think he could do just about anything. 

[Borjans Sweatpants]

Is Botafogo a step up from MLS? Genuinely dont know.

Not sure I'd be happy with that move though (I guess unless its seen as a clear stepping stone). Would rather he go somewhere in Europe with more eyes, maybe to Belgium or something like that where we've had success with players going before.

[Aird25]

5 minutes ago, Borjans Sweatpants said:

Is Botafogo a step up from MLS? Genuinely dont know.

Not sure I'd be happy with that move though (I guess unless its seen as a clear stepping stone). Would rather he go somewhere in Europe with more eyes, maybe to Belgium or something like that where we've had success with players going before.

I think there are one or two scouts with eyes on Brazil. 

[InglewoodJack]

27 minutes ago, Borjans Sweatpants said:

Is Botafogo a step up from MLS? Genuinely dont know.

Not sure I'd be happy with that move though (I guess unless its seen as a clear stepping stone). Would rather he go somewhere in Europe with more eyes, maybe to Belgium or something like that where we've had success with players going before.

Take it with a grain of salt, but most sources that try and apply a league coefficient to all international leagues typically rank Brazil somewhere just below the top 5, and in the same ballpark as Portugal and Netherlands. Would assume there’s a massive swing in quality between the big clubs and the smaller ones, but even ignoring all of the fans/travel/etc aspect, I think it’s a very high quality league.

[Borjans Sweatpants]

1 minute ago, InglewoodJack said:

Take it with a grain of salt, but most sources that try and apply a league coefficient to all international leagues typically rank Brazil somewhere just below the top 5, and in the same ballpark as Portugal and Netherlands. Would assume there’s a massive swing in quality between the big clubs and the smaller ones, but even ignoring all of the fans/travel/etc aspect, I think it’s a very high quality league.

Interesting, well then I guess I cant complain. Id be interested in knowing who else has gone through a similar pathway. But that still sounds optimistic. I guess there's a clear bias for 'European' competition (Champions League, Europa etc.)

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

I apparently wasn't making the connection in my head for some reason but Lyon has had Said Benrahma on loan with an option to buy but a transfer embargo was holding that up.  

However good - depending on who you are I guess - on that front.

https://www.lyoncapitale.fr/actualite/la-dncg-ne-sanctionne-pas-l-olympique-lyonnais 

La DNCG ne sanctionne pas l'Olympique lyonnais

The DNCG (National Directorate of Club Management Control) is the financial policeman of French football as the article says.

However, it says they will still have to sell several players. 

Edited Thursday at 06:40 PM by WestHamCanadianinOxford

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

39 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

Take it with a grain of salt, but most sources that try and apply a league coefficient to all international leagues typically rank Brazil somewhere just below the top 5, and in the same ballpark as Portugal and Netherlands. Would assume there’s a massive swing in quality between the big clubs and the smaller ones, but even ignoring all of the fans/travel/etc aspect, I think it’s a very high quality league.

Opta does a ranking of every team based on their stats.  Based on that they can rank the leagues.

Again much salt taken. 

As of April this is what they have: 

1 Premier League 87.59

2 La Liga 84.8

3 Serie A 84.7

4 Bundesliga 84.3

5 Ligue 1 83.6

6 Primeira Liga 77.47

7 English Championship 76.38

8 Superligaen 76.12

9 La Liga 2 (Segunda) 75.48

10 Brasileirao 75.31

11 Liga MX 75.16

12 Russian Premier League 75.15

13 Major League Soccer 75.1

Edited Thursday at 06:39 PM by WestHamCanadianinOxford

[InglewoodJack]

35 minutes ago, Borjans Sweatpants said:

Interesting, well then I guess I cant complain. Id be interested in knowing who else has gone through a similar pathway. But that still sounds optimistic. I guess there's a clear bias for 'European' competition (Champions League, Europa etc.)

I don’t think many players, if any, have done MLS -> Brazil -> Europe, especially not Brazilian/South American players. Botafogo’s American owner just purchased them and Lyon in 2022, so all of this is pretty new. Same guy owns Fubo too. 

[Borjans Sweatpants]

2 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

I don’t think many players, if any, have done MLS -> Brazil -> Europe, especially not Brazilian/South American players. Botafogo’s American owner just purchased them and Lyon in 2022, so all of this is pretty new. Same guy owns Fubo too. 

Maybe not MLS -> Brazil -> Europe, but those born and raised outside of Brazil / South America who used the Brazilian league as a stepping stone into Europe. Just doesn't seem like a typical step to take when there are lower leagues in Europe that would be of a higher quality but not a jump into the upper echelon of 5 / 7 leagues.

I guess is the idea of it being a Lyon purchase and loan to Botafogo? Kind of like how Manchester City buys players and moves them through the City Football Group clubs (Girona, Troyes etc.). That would make sense I guess, just would hate to see Bombito go to the Brazilian league, struggle, and stiffle his development. Would almost rather he stay a year longer in MLS and then take a step up

[InglewoodJack]

9 minutes ago, Borjans Sweatpants said:

Maybe not MLS -> Brazil -> Europe, but those born and raised outside of Brazil / South America who used the Brazilian league as a stepping stone into Europe. Just doesn't seem like a typical step to take when there are lower leagues in Europe that would be of a higher quality but not a jump into the upper echelon of 5 / 7 leagues.

I guess is the idea of it being a Lyon purchase and loan to Botafogo? Kind of like how Manchester City buys players and moves them through the City Football Group clubs (Girona, Troyes etc.). That would make sense I guess, just would hate to see Bombito go to the Brazilian league, struggle, and stiffle his development. Would almost rather he stay a year longer in MLS and then take a step up

Yeah, some players of Brazilian/SA origin have moved there and then moved along. Similarly, USMNT’s Johnny, who I believe was born in the US but raised in brazil, just moved from Internacional to Real Betis, but of course, we know how attractive Brazilian players are to Europe.

Same owner also owns RWD Molenbeek, but unfortunately they were relegated to the Belgian second tier last year. Seems if they think he isn’t ready for France, which I think he is, Belgium would be a natural landing spot. 
 

Another thing is that Lyon’s bid of $4M for Bombito was rejected. If they offer much more than that, he may be one the most expensive MLS transfer to Brazil of all time I believe. If you’re spending that much for a 24 year old, you have gotta think he’s good enough for Lyon. 

Edited Thursday at 06:59 PM by InglewoodJack

[kingvikingstad]

48 minutes ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

Opta does a ranking of every team based on their stats.  Based on that they can rank the leagues.

Again much salt taken. 

As of April this is what they have: 

1 Premier League 87.59

2 La Liga 84.8

3 Serie A 84.7

4 Bundesliga 84.3

5 Ligue 1 83.6

6 Primeira Liga 77.47

7 English Championship 76.38

8 Superligaen 76.12

9 La Liga 2 (Segunda) 75.48

10 Brasileirao 75.31

11 Liga MX 75.16

12 Russian Premier League 75.15

13 Major League Soccer 75.1

I was told the English Championship was a farmers league where every team plays route one football, so this is very surprising.

[toontownman]

9 hours ago, kingvikingstad said:

I was told the English Championship was a farmers league where every team plays route one football, so this is very surprising.

Heard the championship referred to as the hardest league in the world the other week. It is a tough league to get out of. Quality is much better than some people think but that tagine is a bit far fetched lol

[narduch]

15 hours ago, kingvikingstad said:

I was told the English Championship was a farmers league where every team plays route one football, so this is very surprising.

I never actually heard that before. They usually accuse Ligue 1 of that.

I think Opta having the Championship at 7 discredits their formula