Expanded Gold Cup 2025

[RJB]

A consideration that is needed is that a continental championship has never been won by an invited team.  There has been some close calls (Gold Cup '96, '00, '03) (Copa America '93, '01) but it has never happened.  This list of invitees or frankly anything close to it all but guarantees that there will be an out of Federation winner.  Frankly, that's just embarassing and I don't know why we'd subject ourselves to that.  Any of the 8 teams rumoured to be invitees in the above tweet would be considered one of the favourites.

[Kadenge]

5 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

I think it's a bit of a tough situation. I think there's far too many new tournaments being created right now, and we don't need another. My preference would be a permanent joint-Copa, with a CONCACAF-only Gold Cup every 4 years, but I don't know how realistic that all is. My fallback is a Gold Cup with invites from South America. In both situations, it's an expansion of historical tournaments in a manner that I think makes sense for everyone, and you can get at least some continuity between events.

Still too many games for players re joint Copa AND GC. These tournaments happen in the off season and players need a proper break. Their seasons are already too long, with league, Cup, CL, Europa etc + NL, WC, & Confed tournaments. Perhaps they should eliminate NL. 

[Watchmen]

4 minutes ago, Kadenge said:

Still too many games for players re joint Copa AND GC. These tournaments happen in the off season and players need a proper break. Their seasons are already too long, with league, Cup, CL, Europa etc + NL, WC, & Confed tournaments. Perhaps they should eliminate NL. 

The current situation is a GC every 2 years. I'd rather a Copa and 1 GC. And I'd have no problem eliminating the NL.

[Obinna]

2 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

The current situation is a GC every 2 years. I'd rather a Copa and 1 GC. And I'd have no problem eliminating the NL.

I don't see the NL going away. We need it so that smaller nations get meaningful games, including a way to qualify for Gold Cup.

If we did eliminate Nations League, we could replace it with, or rebrand it to, a Gold Cup qualification tournament. It's basically that now anyway.

And if we did that, we are likely back to automatically qualifying for the top CONCACAF nations, including Canada. These teams would have to fill the void with friendlies, which are hard to get with European NL filling the UEFA calendar.

As long as UEFA has nations league, we probably need to have it as well.

[Watchmen]

4 minutes ago, Obinna said:

I don't see the NL going away. We need it so that smaller nations get meaningful games, including a way to qualify for Gold Cup.

If we did eliminate Nations League, we could replace it with, or rebrand it to, a Gold Cup qualification tournament. It's basically that now anyway.

And if we did that, we are likely back to automatically qualifying for the top CONCACAF nations, including Canada. These teams would have to fill the void with friendlies, which are hard to get with European NL filling the UEFA calendar.

As long as UEFA has nations league, we probably need to have it as well.

Oh, I don't think there's any plans to get rid of NL. I'm just saying I would get rid of it.

Edited August 1 by Watchmen

[Kent]

1 hour ago, Watchmen said:

The current situation is a GC every 2 years. I'd rather a Copa and 1 GC. And I'd have no problem eliminating the NL.

This is what I was thinking as well, except I'm happy to keep the Nations League. In fact I wish League B and League C would also have a playoff to crown a champion of that league. The teams in League C realistically have no shot at winning in League A or the Gold Cup, it would be cool to see the best of the worst get crowned for some bragging rights.

[Watchmen]

4 minutes ago, Kent said:

This is what I was thinking as well, except I'm happy to keep the Nations League. In fact I wish League B and League C would also have a playoff to crown a champion of that league. The teams in League C realistically have no shot at winning in League A or the Gold Cup, it would be cool to see the best of the worst get crowned for some bragging rights.

It wouldn't help Canada, but I always sort of enjoyed the Caribbean Cup and Copa Centroamericana. I have no idea if the countries participating in them enjoyed them, but it always seemed more meaningful than the current NL.

[Mihairokov]

Love the idea of GC expanding with other teams but 24 teams with sixteen Concacaf teams means we're expecting to draw France against Bermuda or French Guiana? Seems not great. This tournament should be top eight Concacaf and eight visiting teams, or some combination to get to 16.

[Obinna]

1 hour ago, Watchmen said:

It wouldn't help Canada, but I always sort of enjoyed the Caribbean Cup and Copa Centroamericana. I have no idea if the countries participating in them enjoyed them, but it always seemed more meaningful than the current NL.

I have to admit I felt it was unfortunate to see those go away. It's too bad they couldn't find a way to keep those. League C and B are a defacto Caribbean Cup, minus Jamaica and maybe T&T or Haiti. 

We're an awkward confederation for those regional tournaments, because two of the biggest teams don't have one. Can't really have a 3 team North American Cup.

Maybe they could have a more shortened, exclusive Nations League, where USA, Mexico, and Canada await the winner of a Caribbean Cup champ vs Copa Centro America champ play down, but then we're right back to the problem of automatic qualification.

One great thing to come out of NL is that nobody gets automatic buys to the Gold Cup. I always hated that, it was so Micky mouse.

Edited August 2 by Obinna

[SpursFlu]

This seems like a really cool idea. I think

[CanadaFan123]

Just thinking here: France can’t be picked as a guest as we have national teams that are already part of their FA in the competition. 
 

Agree with others who have said this is completely disrespectful to other CONCACAF nations. We should be aiming to have a cup that is akin to the AFC. They have loads of low ranked nations but don’t bring invitees. 
 

The only invitees I would (begrudgingly) accept would be New Zealand (poor bastards deserve it and won’t win) or CONMEBOL countries as reciprocity. 

[CanadianSoccerFan]

I'm all in favour of CONCACAF hosting a tournament with guest teams but call it something other than the Gold Cup.

[One American]

How about, No. 

[Mihairokov]

1 hour ago, CanadaFan123 said:

Agree with others who have said this is completely disrespectful to other CONCACAF nations. We should be aiming to have a cup that is akin to the AFC. They have loads of low ranked nations but don’t bring invitees.

Not only does AFC have more teams but they have better teams, too.

According to ELO as of today:

10th in AFC : 77 Oman
15th in AFC : 103 Palestine
20th in AFC : 129 Indonesia
25th in AFC : 160 Turkmenistan

10th in Concacaf : 95 Martinique
15th in Concacaf : 130 Guadeloupe
20th in Concacaf : 159 Dominican Republic
25th in Concacaf : 176 St. Kitts & Nevis

They essentially have five more teams from their "middle" that they can plug into their confederation cup. I'm usually a pretty big booster of the smaller Concacaf teams being better than how they appear but there is more depth in AFC to allow for it. A 24-team only-Concacaf tournament today includes Grenada and Saint Lucia and I simply don't think there is any value in the top eight teams playing them whatsoever, especially when their other group matches would be against Curacao and Guyana.

[Watchmen]

18 minutes ago, Mihairokov said:

Not only does AFC have more teams but they have better teams, too.

According to ELO as of today:

10th in AFC : 77 Oman
15th in AFC : 103 Palestine
20th in AFC : 129 Indonesia
25th in AFC : 160 Turkmenistan

10th in Concacaf : 95 Martinique
15th in Concacaf : 130 Guadeloupe
20th in Concacaf : 159 Dominican Republic
25th in Concacaf : 176 St. Kitts & Nevis

They essentially have five more teams from their "middle" that they can plug into their confederation cup. I'm usually a pretty big booster of the smaller Concacaf teams being better than how they appear but there is more depth in AFC to allow for it. A 24-team only-Concacaf tournament today includes Grenada and Saint Lucia and I simply don't think there is any value in the top eight teams playing them whatsoever, especially when their other group matches would be against Curacao and Guyana.

It's also not really comparable to the AFC because they've had 5 different winners in 9 events vs CONCACAF having 3 winners (and one of them only once) in 17 events over the same 1991/92 time frame.

In my mind, the "combined Copa" is sort of for the "big" teams from CONCACAF, while the Gold Cup is to give smaller nations a chance to participate in something still big.  But 16 CONCACAF teams seems like it should be the max.

[Mihairokov]

Just now, Watchmen said:

It's also not really comparable to the AFC because they've had 5 different winners in 9 events vs CONCACAF having 3 winners (and one of them only once) in 17 events over the same 1991/92 time frame.

In my mind, the "combined Copa" is sort of for the "big" teams from CONCACAF, while the Gold Cup is to give smaller nations a chance to participate in something still big.  But 16 CONCACAF teams seems like it should be the max.

Even sixteen is pushing it, IMO. That top sixteen includes Martinque and Guadeloupe, and if you remove them you're getting down to Cuba and Guyana. Again, there are good teams, but the equivalent would be AFC inviting Canada over and having us play the Philippines or Turkmenistan. IMO if countries are going to be invited to other confederations they need to be the top countries, competitive, and ideally both. If Concacaf should invite any team it should be inviting New Zealand, because they need matches against better opponents and they're not good enough that they blow away Haiti or Trinidad.

[lazlo_80]

this seems like a great change and im all for it. the current gold cup is a waste of time until the semis.

[CanadaFan123]

1 hour ago, Mihairokov said:

Not only does AFC have more teams but they have better teams, too.

According to ELO as of today:

10th in AFC : 77 Oman
15th in AFC : 103 Palestine
20th in AFC : 129 Indonesia
25th in AFC : 160 Turkmenistan

10th in Concacaf : 95 Martinique
15th in Concacaf : 130 Guadeloupe
20th in Concacaf : 159 Dominican Republic
25th in Concacaf : 176 St. Kitts & Nevis

They essentially have five more teams from their "middle" that they can plug into their confederation cup. I'm usually a pretty big booster of the smaller Concacaf teams being better than how they appear but there is more depth in AFC to allow for it. A 24-team only-Concacaf tournament today includes Grenada and Saint Lucia and I simply don't think there is any value in the top eight teams playing them whatsoever, especially when their other group matches would be against Curacao and Guyana.

I’m not advocating for a 24 team tournament but I do think that each of the CONCACAF teams you listed are arguably better than their respective counterparts in spite of the ELO ranking. Point is there are enough teams to compete in our tournament if the AFC can do it without the need for invitees. 

Edited August 2 by CanadaFan123

[gigi riva]

To me the Gold Cup is a Massive Joke , If I were Marsh I would bring a B team to this event . Last year Herdmann brought was relativley a B / C team and with all the ridicule  he had to listen too  this team did okay almost knocking off the favoured Yanks , at the same time guys like Shaffs , Bombito, and  Ahmed emerged as First team players and that experience helped them for this past  Copa  America, but I guess too many people were to busy complaining to realize that. To me 2026 is more important.   

[gigi riva]

To me the Gold Cup is a Massive Joke , If I were Marsh I would bring a B team to this event . Last year Herdmann brought was relativley a B / C team and with all the ridicule  he had to listen too  this team doid okay almost knocking off the favoured Yanks , at the same time guys like Shaffs , Bombito, and  Ahmed emerged as First team tam starters ,

[Watchmen]

1 hour ago, gigi riva said:

To me the Gold Cup is a Massive Joke , If I were Marsh I would bring a B team to this event . Last year Herdmann brought was relativley a B / C team and with all the ridicule  he had to listen too  this team did okay almost knocking off the favoured Yanks , at the same time guys like Shaffs , Bombito, and  Ahmed emerged as First team players and that experience helped them for this past  Copa  America, but I guess too many people were to busy complaining to realize that. To me 2026 is more important.   

A bold stance to take.

[archer21]

I’m ok with inviting teams specifically this tournament as a test run for the World Cup in 2026. It shouldn’t become something that happens every Gold Cup though. And I’d rather not have France and Spain. Teams in the 10-30 range are interesting but the absolute top teams shouldn’t be invited in my opinion. It makes it almost a certainty that a CONCACAF team won’t win. I like how Brazil and Argentina aren’t included. All the other teams are very good sides and have good chances to win, but Spain and France would be heavy favourites. I’d rather a Denmark or Switzerland. Maybe even Croatia.

[Obinna]

29 minutes ago, archer21 said:

I’m ok with inviting teams specifically this tournament as a test run for the World Cup in 2026. It shouldn’t become something that happens every Gold Cup though. And I’d rather not have France and Spain. Teams in the 10-30 range are interesting but the absolute top teams shouldn’t be invited in my opinion. It makes it almost a certainty that a CONCACAF team won’t win. I like how Brazil and Argentina aren’t included. All the other teams are very good sides and have good chances to win, but Spain and France would be heavy favourites. I’d rather a Denmark or Switzerland. Maybe even Croatia.

Croatia would be kind of cool. I know a lot of us have bantered about Norway, although Haaland would miss out being with Man City of the Club World Cup. Ireland is another mid level team that could be interesting. I like the Egypt and Senegal choices.

[mpg_29]

Honestly teams like Norway that can miss out on tournaments in their region might be there very type of teams to invite to the Gold Cup.

[narduch]

I'm guessing Saudi Arabia will be one of the guest teams.