Expanded Gold Cup 2025

[MauditYvon]

I really don’t like the idea. Problems with the Gold Cup are 1) being played every 2 years instead of 4 (even more now with Nations League…) 2) always hosted in USA. Simple as that.

[Unnamed Trialist]

On 2/3/2023 at 5:57 PM, InglewoodJack said:

How are teams even picked? I assume that interested teams apply, and then CONCACAF chooses the best fits?

 

I went with teams that are good enough to be invited to international tournaments, but not good enough where the entire tournament will get dominated by non-CONCACAF teams.

I think Portugal is going to want to keep their momentum going beyond the CR7 years, so international tournaments would be really relevant for them. I also think that we'll invite a gulf state as well, and since we've already invited Qatar, Bahrain seems like a realistic choice, but I would consider them interchangeable with UAE (who actually have a stronger team, IIRC).

 

I think teams like England, Spain, France, they have too much to lose if they get knocked out early or straight up don't win the tournament. Those teams could look to see how a middling team like ours was able to steamroll through WC qualifying and would be afraid to get eliminated by a team that would embarass them. Mbappe missing a PK in an elimination loss against Canada at like, Tim Hortons field? That's the type of thing that will be held against his legacy.

Are there dates for this Gold Cup, and why was this thread bumped?

 

Anyways, I think the logic is impeccable. But the plus is playing as a NT in the venues you may see the following summer. It is actually an advantage, you learn the terrain. Pre-Olympic events are often done that way and it does benefit athletes to know venues, scenarios. Now Canada has to play at Azteca, and we are not threatened or afraid, because we know it, have done it, even got results there. 

Apart from it being a sort of courtesy within FIFA.

The problem is if Nations League interferes, of other international tournaments, if players are just too saturated with matches, then you may see some selective opting out, which is what you are suggesting. Not even the potential money would be that much of an incentive for many federations.

Edited January 18 by Unnamed Trialist

[cornerkick]

I looked at the original post, and wasn't aware of this plan for the 2025 gold cup.  I thought this was just released, but then saw the Feb 2023 post date. 

A quick news search revealed this:  apparently the FIFA Club World Cup is scheduled to be played at exactly the same time.  Both are using North America venues.  There will be overlap of some games.  I guess another question is will clubs release players to their national teams if they are in both?  Or who would get priority?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/soccer/gold-cup-and-club-world-cup-to-divide-and-conquer-us-in-2025/ar-AA1nbVVf

Edited January 19 by cornerkick

[cornerkick]

the 2025 Africa Cup of Nations is also scheduled during this time period, June-July 2025.  Who exactly will come from CAF to this gold cup then?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2025_Africa_Cup_of_Nations

There's too much soccer now in summer 2025.  Did the gold cup try to make an early announcement to preempt other competitions from stealing the spotlight?

[Shway]

16 hours ago, MauditYvon said:

I really don’t like the idea. Problems with the Gold Cup are 1) being played every 2 years instead of 4 (even more now with Nations League…) 2) always hosted in USA. Simple as that.

The main problem is that they will consistently have the Gold Cup and Nations League finals in the same year. This means there's always that potential for an asterisk year as players will always be choosing to attend the tournament. Club World Cup, Nations League Finals, Olympics, and the World Cup.

It's just too much. But I get the money-making aspect. I just think they should do a U23 tournament-style Gold Cup, and limit it to MLS sized stadiums. OR allow that tournament to be played in other countries.

Edited January 19 by Shway

[TGAA_Star]

Apparently they look to be expanding for the 2025 CONCACAF Gold Cup and from this photo the format looks like this:

 

16 CONCACAF teams 

2 UEFA teams (Europe)

2 CAF teams (Africa)

2 AFC teams (Asia)

2 CONMEBOL teams (South America)

 

But apparently the reason for said expansion is using the 2025 Gold Cup as a dress rehearsal for the 2026 FIFA World Cup 

[Mihairokov]

Bored at work so I'm going to make up a field and draw. I picked the guest teams based on them being good but not too good to the extent that the matches would be a complete waste for them. 

Assuming qualification format stays the same (FIFA rankings):

QFs: Mexico(14), United States(11), Panama(45), Canada(49)

Nations League Group A: Costa Rica(52), Guatemala(108), Jamaica(55), Honduras(82)

Nations League Group B: El Salvador(81), Curacao(91), Haiti(90), Dominican Republic (150)

Gold Cup Qualifiers: Trinidad & Tobago (98), Guadeloupe (NA), Nicaragua(135), Guyana(154)

I know the above format is tricky but I don't feel like doing the theoretically QF matches and Qualifiers after lol

UEFA: Wales(29), Norway(47)

AFC: Qatar(34), UAE(67)

CAF: Cabo Verde(65), Gabon(84)

CONMEBOL: Venezuela(54), Paraguay(56)

24 is six groups of four, so four pots. I've ranked all teams based on FIFA rankings because I don't know how else they would do this:

Pot 1: USA MEX WAL QTR PAN NOR

Pot 2: CAN COR VEN JAM PAR CV

Pot 3: UAE ES HON GAB HAI CUR

Pot 4: DOM TT GUAT NIC GUY GUAD

I put the qualifiers into the final pot because I guess that makes sense

And I've just done random number generator for the pot results lol:

Group A: WAL CR CUR GUAT

Group B: NOR JAM HAI GUY

Group C : USA VEN HON NIC

Group D : QTR CAN GAB GUAD

Group E : PAN CV ES TT

Group F: MEX PAR UAE DOM

No matter what we do we always end up with the no-FIFA-points team 😆

Edited May 21 by Mihairokov

[narduch]

Going to assume Canada will host its group stage games for this.

[Shway]

Has the UEFA, CAF and Conembol teams been confirmed?

[Watchmen]

2 hours ago, narduch said:

Going to assume Canada will host its group stage games for this.

I would not assume this.

[SpursFlu]

I can see lesser or mid range countries but with large fan bases getting the invite. I doubt they would want to create a scenario where there isn't a Concacaf team in the finals or final 4

Edited May 21 by SpursFlu

[narduch]

8 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

I would not assume this.

I figured this would be a World Cup dry run.

When is Vancouver planning to install their real grass?

[Watchmen]

24 minutes ago, narduch said:

I figured this would be a World Cup dry run.

When is Vancouver planning to install their real grass?

Not until after this, I think. Though a Gold Cup game on turf would be fine.

I agree, it should be a WC dry run. But they might still just decide to go for the money and keep all of it (or most of it) in the US.

[TGAA_Star]

My 24 teams I would go with 

 

CONCACAF (16)- USA 🇺🇸, Canada 🇨🇦, Mexico 🇲🇽, Jamaica 🇯🇲, Costa Rica 🇨🇷,  Panama 🇵🇦, Honduras 🇭🇳, El Salvador 🇸🇻,  Haiti 🇭🇹, Curacao 🇨🇼, Suriname 🇸🇷, Trinidad & Tobago 🇹🇹, Dominican Republic 🇩🇴, Nicaragua 🇳🇮,  Guyana 🇬🇾 and Martinique 🇲🇶 

 

AFC (2)- Qatar 🇶🇦 and UAE 🇦🇪 

CAF (2)- DR Congo 🇨🇩 and South Africa 🇿🇦 

CONMEBOL (2)- Venezuela 🇻🇪 and Paraguay 🇵🇾 

UEFA (2)- Norway 🇳🇴 and Greece 🇬🇷 

 

 

 

[themodelcitizen]

On 5/21/2024 at 11:35 AM, SpursFlu said:

I can see lesser or mid range countries but with large fan bases getting the invite. I doubt they would want to create a scenario where there isn't a Concacaf team in the finals or final 4

Ireland and Norway aren't getting competitive games this summer and might want some WCQ warmups (or warmdowns, considering they have a window on June 10 weekend and the GC is usually later in the summer now).  Haaland/Odegaard + Ireland games in Boston/NY could be fun.

Plus between Saint Brendan and the Norse vikings, they can compete for the claim of discovering the continent on behalf of Europe

[Obinna]

I have been thinking long and hard about how and if CONCACAF will bring outside teams in for the Gold Cup.

If they make it a "qualification", what would make sense considering they have talked about 2 teams from each confederation (Oceania aside)? Perhaps the finalists of every confederations Cup? That would be:

AFC:

• Qatar and Jordan

CAF:

• Ivory Coast and Nigeria

CONMEBOL:

• Argentina and Colombia/Uruguay

UEFA:

• Spand and England/Netherlands

That would be an interesting field of competitors....

I think what you'd want (aside from money) are guests who are competitive, but won't dog walk the entire tournament. This is where the AFC and CAF competitiors would be fine, regardless if you "qualified" the top two, or just hand-picked your preferred teams, but it's CONMEBOL and (especially) UEFA where you run the risk.

I mean, I bet CONCACAF would love to run-it-back with the Argentina/Messi road show next summer, but surely people are going to get sick of seeing Argentina, no?

I suppose the other thing to consider is the club world cup and the plethora of players who will be missing from all squads, but particularly from teams like Argentina, England, Netherlands, etc. That may actually level the playing field, if say Netherlands are reduced to fielding (basically) an all-Eredivisie team, which could no doubt still be the strongest team on paper, but much less so than if the full squad was available. Ditto for England and probably Argentina, too.

Anyway, what do you guys think? I am kind of expecting just random invites at this point, but if that's the case why not pick any 8 teams, no need to pick 2 per confederation. But....it would give it a true international pre-world cup feel if they followed through.....

[theaub]

I would think they'll aim for big name guest countries who will sell tickets and inevitably bring B/B+ teams. 

If there are six groups it would be pretty disappointing if Canada/Mexico didn't host their own groups but it also would not surprise me in the least.

[Unnamed Trialist]

Shouldn't we close this thread? Kevin Kilbane on TSN said we have no competitive matches until the WC opener in 2026 and none of the geniuses corrected him. So that must be right, two years of friendlies and the Gold Cup and Nations League are cancelled.

Close the thread.

[Obinna]

And because it's difficult to focus on anything but soccer right now, here is a mock draw with the guest teams I listed:

Group A

• USA
• Curacao
• Haiti
• Jordan

Group B

• Mexico
• El Salvador
• Martinique
• Qatar

Group C

• Canada
• Suriname
• Guadeloupe
• Ivory Coast

Group D

• Panama
• Guatemala
• Nicaragua
• Nigeria

Group E

• Costa Rica
• T&T
• Spain
• Colombia

Group F

• Jamaica
• Honduras
• England
• Argentina

 

 

[Watchmen]

11 minutes ago, Obinna said:

I have been thinking long and hard about how and if CONCACAF will bring outside teams in for the Gold Cup.

If they make it a "qualification", what would make sense considering they have talked about 2 teams from each confederation (Oceania aside)? Perhaps the finalists of every confederations Cup? That would be:

AFC:

• Qatar and Jordan

CAF:

• Ivory Coast and Nigeria

CONMEBOL:

• Argentina and Colombia/Uruguay

UEFA:

• Spand and England/Netherlands

That would be an interesting field of competitors....

I think what you'd want (aside from money) are guests who are competitive, but won't dog walk the entire tournament. This is where the AFC and CAF competitiors would be fine, regardless if you "qualified" the top two, or just hand-picked your preferred teams, but it's CONMEBOL and (especially) UEFA where you run the risk.

I mean, I bet CONCACAF would love to run-it-back with the Argentina/Messi road show next summer, but surely people are going to get sick of seeing Argentina, no?

I suppose the other thing to consider is the club world cup and the plethora of players who will be missing from all squads, but particularly from teams like Argentina, England, Netherlands, etc. That may actually level the playing field, if say Netherlands are reduced to fielding (basically) an all-Eredivisie team, which could no doubt still be the strongest team on paper, but much less so than if the full squad was available. Ditto for England and probably Argentina, too.

Anyway, what do you guys think? I am kind of expecting just random invites at this point, but if that's the case why not pick any 8 teams, no need to pick 2 per confederation. But....it would give it a true international pre-world cup feel if they followed through.....

I don't think I'm convinced that any of the bigger countries in Europe would want to participate in a month long tournament (outside of the Euro/WC). A friendly or two is one thing. A grueling tournament in between bigger tournaments (and a rare chance to give their players a break) is another.

[Obinna]

4 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Shouldn't we close this thread? Kevin Kilbane on TSN said we have no competitive matches until the WC opener in 2026 and none of the geniuses corrected him. So that must be right, two years of friendlies and the Gold Cup and Nations League are cancelled.

Close the thread.

Yeah I noticed that too, but since when has Kevin Kilbane be the almighty source of everything CONCACAF.

I hope you are being facetious here. This thread should absolutely stay open until we get a confirmation from concacaf

 

[Lansdude]

Zinedine Kilbane is underinformed.

[Unnamed Trialist]

15 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

I don't think I'm convinced that any of the bigger countries in Europe would want to participate in a month long tournament (outside of the Euro/WC). A friendly or two is one thing. A grueling tournament in between bigger tournaments (and a rare chance to give their players a break) is another.

There's a sneaky way: Spain, Portugal and Morocco have a joint bid for 2030 and you could always ask them to participate as a tit for tat and later considerations.

[Obinna]

6 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

I don't think I'm convinced that any of the bigger countries in Europe would want to participate in a month long tournament (outside of the Euro/WC). A friendly or two is one thing. A grueling tournament in between bigger tournaments (and a rare chance to give their players a break) is another.

I agree with you. It's kind of hard to see.

On the flipside, it's a chance to play in some of the venues ahead of the World Cup, similar to confederations cup in past cycles.

And after looking into it a bit, this is how some of the guests would be affected by club world cup, assuming the club affiliations as of today:

England:

Netherlands:

Spain:

Argentina:

Canada:

 

Teams aren't really that affected for the most part...

[Pomoxis]

22 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Yeah I noticed that too, but since when has Kevin Kilbane be the almighty source of everything CONCACAF.

I hope you are being facetious here. This thread should absolutely stay open until we get a confirmation from concacaf

 

And I really hope you are being facetious with this.