Canada and the 2024 Copa America

[Joe MacCarthy]

3 minutes ago, theaub said:

Now when I see people who were born in Canada who are knowledgable about soccer but have more interest in watching England etc play than Canada? That's what confuses me more. 

I'm a different breed of cat I guess.  I love taking these people on (it's fun) and either try to humiliate them (if they're smart) or make them wonder if a shot was taken at them if they were stupid.

It stems from my old man whose family all came from the auld country.  They used to go back and visit all the time and pine away about it but my father (who was the youngest) would just cut them off with the same remark "If it was so great why did we leave it"  He embraced Canada and never went or wanted to visit the auld country. 

It takes a seriously dissociated ingrate to shit on your own country knowingly (or unknowingly) especially when you have benefited greatly from it..

[costarg]

6 minutes ago, Obinna said:

I have a buddy who is a big Chelsea fan. His dad is also a Chelsea fan. Neither of them have any connection to the UK, let alone Chelsea, but the town they are from wear blue jerseys. One day I was asking him why Chelsea and I said "it's the blue kits, isn't it". He confirmed by nodded and laughing!

Sometimes it's as simple as that, funny enough.

Hah, I know a similar guy who only supports black and yellow teams. Bruins, Steelers, Pirates, Wolves, Borussia Dortmund.....  no connection to the cities.

[InglewoodJack]

12 minutes ago, costarg said:

Wait.  What?  You work?  How do you fit it in between posting here?

This is the full time job, the other stuff is for between posts 

[Joe MacCarthy]

1 minute ago, costarg said:

Hah, I know a similar guy who only supports black and yellow teams. Bruins, Steelers, Pirates, Wolves, Borussia Dortmund.....  no connection to the cities.

Ti-Cats?

[costarg]

4 minutes ago, Joe MacCarthy said:

Ti-Cats?

Surely.

[themodelcitizen]

4 minutes ago, costarg said:

Hah, I know a similar guy who only supports black and yellow teams. Bruins, Steelers, Pirates, Wolves, Borussia Dortmund.....  no connection to the cities.

Most of us are getting a little old to be fanatically supporting teams from cities we have no connection with and in many cases have never been to.

I mean I love my Premier League team of choice, but I know it's different than people who grew up going to games. Building that kind of fandom comes from, in my case, pregaming in Liberty Village, walking through the Go Tunnel, making that cheap-looking Ikea stadium our own in 2007, etc. It's like someone in Newcastle staying up late to watch a random NHL team - yes it's fun, but to devote so much time and energy to it makes you more of a customer than a supporter, especially if you completely ignore your own local league

[theaub]

11 minutes ago, themodelcitizen said:

Most of us are getting a little old to be fanatically supporting teams from cities we have no connection with and in many cases have never been to.

I mean I love my Premier League team of choice, but I know it's different than people who grew up going to games. Building that kind of fandom comes from, in my case, pregaming in Liberty Village, walking through the Go Tunnel, making that cheap-looking Ikea stadium our own in 2007, etc. It's like someone in Newcastle staying up late to watch a random NHL team - yes it's fun, but to devote so much time and energy to it makes you more of a customer than a supporter, especially if you completely ignore your own local league

This is pretty much it.  I am (convienently per the above) a Newcastle supporter, but I would never claim to have the same attachment as someone who grew up going to SJP.  Concurrently I am friends with a good many of the ex-pats who have made their way across and they would have similar views on North American teams (ironically basically to a tee they are all more likely than my 'Canadian' friends to have an interest in our NT and basically all them bought Voyageurs memberships and were at every qualifier in Toronto/Hamilton, and one travelled to Qatar with me).

But I do think we are a generation away from the true 'local soccer aspect'.  I am guessing we were both day one TFC SSHs from your comment but if you didn't have seasons and didn't know where to pick up spares etc then tickets were very tough to come by the first few years so the ability to have build that fandom you're talking about was a bit limited.   I think we'll see more of that attachement in 20 years and hopefully the CPL sticks around/grows to assist with it.

Edited Thursday at 02:27 PM by theaub

[BearcatSA]

26 minutes ago, costarg said:

Wait.  What?  You work?  How do you fit it in between posting here?

I have often wondered about that regarding many people on this board.  I am retired now but even before, I couldn't generate the number of posts (nor also watch the number of games in lower profile leagues) that some of these people do.  And I have been a membe since the beginning of the 2000s.

[Obinna]

26 minutes ago, costarg said:

Hah, I know a similar guy who only supports black and yellow teams. Bruins, Steelers, Pirates, Wolves, Borussia Dortmund.....  no connection to the cities.

My uncle is like that! Hardcore Steelers and Bruins fan. Also the type to take passive aggressive shots at soccer because it's a sissy sport.

[costarg]

3 minutes ago, BearcatSA said:

I have often wondered about that regarding many people on this board.  I am retired now but even before, I couldn't generate the number of posts (nor also watch the number of games in lower profile leagues) that some of these people do.  And I have been a membe since the beginning of the 2000s.

I'm between contracts/projects at the moment if that helps!  Fits well with Euro and CA!  But ya, with two little girls there is no way I can watch all the games some mention here.

[Obinna]

56 minutes ago, theaub said:

Is it surprising?  If I walk into a random bar and strike up a conversation with someone about soccer, the odds are overwhelmingly favourable to them knowing European soccer (likely Prem/CL), with a passing knowledge of MLS and zero idea that the CPL exists.  

I'm in my mid-30's - when I was growing up the only soccer on TV was major tournaments and the odd PL/CL match.  There was no MLS team, certainly no sniff of a domestic Canadian league.  The Lynx played down the street and I probably went once or twice.  Concurrently people started supporting PL teams like any other sports franchise since people wanted to get into soccer and have something to watch.  Someone who started following Chelsea etc in 2005 and has spent the last 20 years watching them has significantly more emotional ties for them than they will ever have for York United, regardless of how close/far away each one is.  

Now when I see people who were born in Canada who are knowledgable about soccer but have more interest in watching England etc play than Canada? That's what confuses me more. 

Pretty much the same scenario you described on the club side. People pick a national team and stick with it. Canada has been doing nothing for years.

What would be odd is if they cheered for England against Canada. As long as they aren't squaring off, the England support is understandable. Hell, I even have memories supporting England in World Cups, and I am roughly the same age as you. It definitely came from watching EPL back in the day.

In my case, I was an Arsenal fan. Just liked their kits and liked Henry, Pires, and those guys. Liked how they played. Liked their ground, etc. 

I think the difference is that once I latched onto Canadian soccer, then later MLS, I became much more netrual on Arsenal. When asked, I describe myself as a "soft" Arsenal supporter, but in reality I care very little with how they do now a days. If they win, great, but I have no emotional connection at this point. All I care for on the club side is how our players do at their clubs. I was rooting for Porto to beat Arsenal this season, for example.

Edited Thursday at 02:48 PM by Obinna

[Kent]

22 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Pretty much the same scenario you described on the club side. People pick a national team and stick with it. Canada has been doing nothing for years.

What would be odd is if they cheered for England against Canada. As long as they aren't squaring off, the England support is understandable. Hell, I even have memories supporting England in World Cups, and I am roughly the same age as you. It definitely came from watching EPL back in the day.

In my case, I was an Arsenal fan. Just liked their kits and liked Henry, Pires, and those guys. Liked how they played. Liked their ground, etc. 

I think the difference is that once I latched onto Canadian soccer, then later MLS, I became much more netrual on Arsenal. When asked, I describe myself as a "soft" Arsenal supporter, but in reality I care very little with how they do now a days. If they win, great, but I have no emotional connection at this point. All I care for on the club side is how our players do at their clubs. I was rooting for Porto to beat Arsenal this season, for example.

Yeah, similar story to me. In the mid 90's I was a teenager and there were no local teams to watch. The only team you could watch regularly really was Manchester United, so I became a fan of them. Over time I got more and more emotionally invested in them. Eventually took their games very seriously. When TFC was first announced my CSL folding memories made me assume the team wouldn't last long. But I watched them on TV in those early days and the support was great. Became a season ticket holder for a couple seasons shortly after, while still being very into Manchester United. Then became a father to a couple kids and it wasn't long before my Saturday mornings were better spent with them than watching Manchester United.

Now Manchester United is a distant 5th favourite team (CMNT, CWNT, York United, TFC, Manchester United) and I don't really watch them at all anymore. I check in on the table to see how they are doing, but the passion has evaporated now that I have local teams to watch.

So I do understand how supporting a far away team can happen, and I can easily imagine myself in an alternate universe continuing to support Manchester United (and I did kind of cheer for England in World Cups because of the overlap in players, and a lack of Canada being there, but never got too emotional about it. I should say I have always cheered for Canada, although I was less obsessed than I have been the last 15 years or so). But it does feel a lot more fulfilling to me to support a local team if you've got one. Plus it's exciting the relatively blank canvas of these young teams we have in Canada. So much room for growth is exciting.

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

57 minutes ago, costarg said:

I'm between contracts/projects at the moment if that helps!  Fits well with Euro and CA!  But ya, with two little girls there is no way I can watch all the games some mention here.

Off now for part of what I do, just in time for the tournaments.  But the rest of what I do is very much on my schedule (deadlines but no set hours). I love waking up really early, getting a good session of work in, then hopping on here and researching for main part of the day, catching European some games, and then making supper and work/research/ do stuff with my wife in the evening. Outside stuff after the European games on the weekend and before late MLS games, when applicable. 

But I (shamefully?) only watch NFL for other sport now because fantasy football keeps me in touch with some people on a couple continents. (I did try a little with the Oilers in the playoffs.)  and I have no small dependants.  Dune 2 was also the first movie I had seen in a theatre probably since the last Star Wars. And I got through Jack Ryan season 2 a couple months ago with my wife, planning to a least see season 3 but haven't got to it. 

 

46 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Pretty much the same scenario you described on the club side. People pick a national team and stick with it. Canada has been doing nothing for years.

What would be odd is if they cheered for England against Canada. As long as they aren't squaring off, the England support is understandable. Hell, I even have memories supporting England in World Cups, and I am roughly the same age as you. It definitely came from watching EPL back in the day.

In my case, I was an Arsenal fan. Just liked their kits and liked Henry, Pires, and those guys. Liked how they played. Liked their ground, etc. 

I think the difference is that once I latched onto Canadian soccer, then later MLS, I became much more netrual on Arsenal. When asked, I describe myself as a "soft" Arsenal supporter, but in reality I care very little with how they do now a days. If they win, great, but I have no emotional connection at this point. All I care for on the club side is how our players do at their clubs. I was rooting for Porto to beat Arsenal this season, for example.

 

As I get older, I realise there are different ways to support.

There is a derisive term - Cockney Reds - for the people in East London (and Essex) who picked up Man U because they were at the top when the people were kids and forming their football bonds.  The generation before is Liverpool and there have been similar with Chelsea and Man City since. 

In the same context, I used to hate Man U as a kid because everybody who knew nothing about football (in my mind) around me in Canada picked them.  There is a bad inclination to mock people who picked a good team.  

It has softened after getting to know some Man U fans from Manchester. That reflects on a lot of the relationships with other fans.  Lots of different big club supporters in Oxford for instance.

 

My club is partially a link to grandmother that died when I was young but it just feels so permanent as well.  We have gone down 4 times in my memory and anything we won was before my time until last year but it feels like it has always and will always be there. 

And at the end of the day, I never probably would have cared about football - full stop - without my connection to West Ham.

 

Starting to be able to watch Canadians in Europe from there a few years ago really added a great dimension for me. Some kids around me followed Juve when I was younger but having a whole bunch of second teams now is even better. 

 

Any soccer team and players on those teams that I tried to form an attachment to in Edmonton seemed gone the next day. Trying with Cavalry but its hard because its still a long trip. And I am fighting some young me sporting instincts. 

Edited Thursday at 03:33 PM by WestHamCanadianinOxford

[maplebanana]

A lot of good discussion here, to the point that I can't just quote one or two. But I will add that despite being 'that obnoxious Canadian fan' and trying to make fellow Canadians feel guilty for supporting another nation, I am nonsensically a fan of the Miami Dolphins, Chicago Blackhawks, and Edmonton Elks. I've never lived in any of them. But when you're a kid in the late 80's/early 90's in the Ottawa Valley, you just pick whatever team is good and you stick with them. The dolphins ruin my sundays every fall, and I'm still lining up every summer to pay $500 for the rights to watch that pain unfold. 

Long story short: sports fandom makes no sense and it never has. But that's kind of awesome too. 

[InglewoodJack]

12 minutes ago, maplebanana said:

A lot of good discussion here, to the point that I can't just quote one or two. But I will add that despite being 'that obnoxious Canadian fan' and trying to make fellow Canadians feel guilty for supporting another nation, I am nonsensically a fan of the Miami Dolphins, Chicago Blackhawks, and Edmonton Elks. I've never lived in any of them. But when you're a kid in the late 80's/early 90's in the Ottawa Valley, you just pick whatever team is good and you stick with them. The dolphins ruin my sundays every fall, and I'm still lining up every summer to pay $500 for the rights to watch that pain unfold. 

Long story short: sports fandom makes no sense and it never has. But that's kind of awesome too. 

I say all this, but my basketball team are the golden state warriors, though my experience in the Bay Area has been reserved to a layover in SFO. At least with North American teams, players stay on longer. GSW has had the same core since 2012. Don’t know your reasons for liking those teams, but until recently, the Blackhawks ran back the same core for like 15 years. Dolphins were part of the greatest sports movie of all time, Ace Ventura. These are valid reasons. 
 

Maybe this is North American of me, but in our leagues, there are 30 teams, you gotta pick one. In soccer, there are thousands of teams- choosing one of the 5 who have the deck stacked in their favour seems weird. Good buddy of mine is Canadian but a massive England supporter, his club is Palace. Have to respect it, because he didn’t pick them for their trophy cabinet, that’s for sure. 

[Joe MacCarthy]

 

[Mihairokov]

2 hours ago, BearcatSA said:

I have often wondered about that regarding many people on this board.  I am retired now but even before, I couldn't generate the number of posts (nor also watch the number of games in lower profile leagues) that some of these people do.  And I have been a membe since the beginning of the 2000s.

Working remotely post-COVID makes it a lot easier to stay home and throw on matches on the second screen, especially European weekday matches. 

There's also a lot more video and live streams available compared to even five or ten years ago. What was previously unavailable is now pretty easy to find. FIFA+ shows some obscure stuff, including the OFC Nations Cup which I've been enjoying, and the COSAFA Championship. 

[Watchmen]

I just usually try to take the positive approach- it's OK to support a team in Europe, but come out and support this local team with me and see what the experience is like. It's ok to watch the Euro, but here's the Copa (the South American equivalence!) and Canada is participating so why not give it a try. Don't belittle what people do enjoy, just try to have them add on to it.

[Mihairokov]

Roldan has previously officiated at the World Cup and Confederations Cup. He officiated the Ecuador/Venezuela match in this Copa America where Enner Valencia was given a red card by VAR after initially being given a yellow at 22'. American Villarreal will be the lead VAR.

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

 

[MtlMario]

There's no Canada - Chile topic so I'm putting it here.

Something like this COULD 😊 happen. Argentina plays their B team not too worried about Peru and lose 2-0. We play our best game of the year and beat Chile 3-0 (better goal dif.). We finish first in our group and play second place of group B. How's that for a great dream?

And before people start telling me to throw out my crystal ball I must admit this is all on me.😁

[Mattd97]

On 6/27/2024 at 9:51 AM, theaub said:

 

I'm in my mid-30's - when I was growing up the only soccer on TV was major tournaments and the odd PL/CL match.  There was no MLS team, certainly no sniff of a domestic Canadian league.  The Lynx played down the street and I probably went once or twice.  Concurrently people started supporting PL teams like any other sports franchise since people wanted to get into soccer and have something to watch.  Someone who started following Chelsea etc in 2005 and has spent the last 20 years watching them has significantly more emotional ties for them than they will ever have for York United, regardless of how close/far away each one is.  

Now when I see people who were born in Canada who are knowledgable about soccer but have more interest in watching England etc play than Canada? That's what confuses me more. 

this is very similar if not dead on to my life experience as well.  I never really got in to club football for that reason but internationally id watch the handful of canada games that you could get, try to convince everyone this was the cycle where they could actually qualify, then be disappointed.  and so I was really in to England and would follow the roster and the friendlies and go to the bars to watch the euro and wc games.  But now that we have actual games and are in the same tournaments I did not watch a minute of england euro or wc games more than just in passing.  I understand why everyone roots for their roots -- but we have a team to cheer for in these same tournaments now. give your damn heads a shake  

[h coach]

Some CBC attention 

https://www.cbc.ca/sports/the-buzzer-newsletter-long-wekend-sports-preview-june-27-1.7249020

[Gian-Luca]

Haven't watched it yet, but a distinct Between Two Ferns vibe to the graphic

[InglewoodJack]

Re: Chile, interestingly enough, we’ve played many of the same opponents as of recent. All since WC, except Qatar which we played like the week before. 

Cuba: Chile 3-0, Canada 4-2

France: Chile 3-2, Canada 0-0

Peru: Chile 0-0, 2-0, Canada 1-0

Uruguay: Chile 1-3, Canada 0-2

Qatar: Chile 2-2, Canada 2-0

We seem to draw very similar results.