Canada and the 2024 Copa America

[Kent]

11 minutes ago, archer21 said:

They really should flip at some point, whether QF or SF. We could (and likely would if we make it that far) play Argentina again in the SF. Would rather play someone different than play the same team twice.

Yeah, it's the classic corrupt Gold Cup style of format. Although for this tournament it might be a double whammy. They may be hoping for a Brazil v Argentina final and a Mexico v USA 3rd place game.

[SpursFlu]

I think finishing 2nd is a realistic goal. Anything less and consider me disappointed 

[Obinna]

8 minutes ago, SpursFlu said:

I think finishing 2nd is a realistic goal. Anything less and consider me disappointed 

I agree with this. I would add that:

Narrowly missing out by finishing 3rd will be a missed opportunity, but something we could probably draw some positives from in due course.

However, going pointless and finishing bottom (again) in a major tournament, at this stage of our development as a program, is unacceptable, new coach or not.

If we do finish bottom, but get at least something from 1 of the 3 games, that'd be terribly disappointing, but at least would save us from complete embarassment. At the end of the day, Chile and Peru know this tournament and know how to advance from it. 

Edited May 31 by Obinna

[SpursFlu]

1 minute ago, Obinna said:

I agree with this. I would add that:

Narrowly missing out by finishing 3rd will be a missed opportunity, but something we could probably draw some positives from in due course.

However, going pointless and finishing bottom (again) in a major tournament, at this stage of our development as a program, is unacceptable, new coach or not.

If we do finish bottom, but get at least something from 1 of the 3 games, that'd be terribly disappointing, but would be nothing more than saving us from complete embarassment. 

I think we need to make a bit of noise. We need to recapture that momentum we kind of lost

[Kadenge]

I get that we want to be optimistic going into the Copa, but keep in mind that we have not played well over the past 18 months. We lost the 2 game series vs Jamaica and struggled vs T&T who fielded a team with lots of domestic players. I would have felt better if Marsch had more time with the team/players. Still hoping for the best, but I think we have to be realistic. 

[Obinna]

18 minutes ago, Kadenge said:

I get that we want to be optimistic going into the Copa, but keep in mind that we have not played well over the past 18 months. We lost the 2 game series vs Jamaica and struggled vs T&T who fielded a team with lots of domestic players. I would have felt better if Marsch had more time with the team/players. Still hoping for the best, but I think we have to be realistic. 

I think it's fair to temper expectations on those grounds, but I don't think the general public is going to consider this when judging the progress of this team, as you know. It's well and good for us true fans to be realistic, but the general public I think understand this is the midway tournament between world cups, so this is measuring stick time.

If we get out of the group, it's progress. If we don't advance, but win a game, or even get a point, there may be grace depending on how it's spun in the media, as it'd be an improvement on Qatar 2022.

[MauditYvon]

32 minutes ago, Kadenge said:

get that we want to be optimistic going into the Copa, but keep in mind that we have not played well over the past 18 months.

True, but Chile and Peru are also in a bad form. 

[Obinna]

Just now, MauditYvon said:

True, but Chile and Peru are also in a bad form. 

Chile narrowly lost to France 3-2 in the last window. One could argue our form is worse if we lose by more than 1 goal. 

[Mihairokov]

1 minute ago, Obinna said:

If we get out of the group, it's progress. If we don't advance, but win a game, or even get a point, there may be grace depending on how it's spun in the media, as it'd be an improvement on Qatar 2022.

I think this is a fair point. Qualifying for WC22 was definitely great for the program and earned them some goodwill to go out and score zero points, but moving forward we really need to be expecting more from the team, both as diehards and as casuals. I don't expect us to get points against Argentina but we should be expecting some kind of result against either Peru or Chile. We can't become a team that goes to tournaments and lays eggs, and the team won't have that sort of leeway at WC26.

[Unnamed Trialist]

2 hours ago, SpursFlu said:

I think finishing 2nd is a realistic goal. Anything less and consider me disappointed 

If we win one match, I'll be happy. If we tie one match, I'll be irked but take it as a slight advancement on our World Cup results. We could nab a nice win and still end up third in the group, and depending on how that "other" match goes (we fail to get points from a team other than Argentina), I may not be disappointed. 

[InglewoodJack]

Advancing from the group would be a win, getting bounced would be a loss, simple as. We can say that Chile is in better form or whatever, but they're ranked around where we are, our roster has a better top end than theirs (probably depth too), we've been playing beneath our potential recently, having an interrim manager and a period of internal strife that we should be exiting by now. You can say it's a 50-50 toss up, but we should be expecting to win our coin flips. Same goes for Peru who I was surprised to see are ranked 32nd in the world- right above Serbia, Egypt, Russia, Czechia, and Scotland. Doesn't look like they've played many strong opponents recently though.

Anyways, we can say that scoring a few goals, getting some points, and then going home with a strong third place finish or whatever is an encouraging step because we assume we're going to disappoint, but given our team and what we should be able to do, I think we should be the second best team in the group.

[Watchmen]

4 hours ago, Obinna said:

I think it's fair to temper expectations on those grounds, but I don't think the general public is going to consider this when judging the progress of this team, as you know. It's well and good for us true fans to be realistic, but the general public I think understand this is the midway tournament between world cups, so this is measuring stick time.

If we get out of the group, it's progress. If we don't advance, but win a game, or even get a point, there may be grace depending on how it's spun in the media, as it'd be an improvement on Qatar 2022.

I think the general public will just be learning about this tournament in the next few weeks, won't be expecting any results against Argentina, and anything above "0-0-3" will be considered an improvement on the World Cup. Heck, even 0-0-3 but with more goals might be considered an improvement.

[TGAA_Star]

Argentina 🇦🇷 vs Canada 🇨🇦= loss (0)

Canada 🇨🇦 vs Peru 🇵🇪= win (3)

Canada 🇨🇦 vs Chile 🇨🇱= draw (1)

 

4 points through 3 games

[dyslexic nam]

I think we are going to win the whole thing.  

Just kidding.  Have you been paying attention?   We often manage to underwhelm despite our potential.  

I am going to watch the tournament and take whatever successes the boys can deliver.  But I am not going in with high expectations.  Been there.  Done that.  Died a little inside when it didn’t materialize.  
 

[kacbru]

I don't get the sense of entitlement that some on here have re Copa expectations. What has CMNT done to earn that? 

[Olympique_de_Marseille]

10 minutes ago, kacbru said:

I don't get the sense of entitlement that some on here have re Copa expectations. What has CMNT done to earn that? 

 

[Canuckia]

1 hour ago, kacbru said:

I don't get the sense of entitlement that some on here have re Copa expectations. What has CMNT done to earn that? 

[JAVIERF]

The only way is to play a 2nd string 11 Vs the argies St Clair in goals ,  and rest the guys for the grudge match the freaking Pacific derby as bitter as hell !!!!!

[Watchmen]

3 hours ago, JAVIERF said:

The only way is to play a 2nd string 11 Vs the argies St Clair in goals ,  and rest the guys for the grudge match the freaking Pacific derby as bitter as hell !!!!!

No

[Pasta88]

15 hours ago, InglewoodJack said:

Advancing from the group would be a win, getting bounced would be a loss, simple as. We can say that Chile is in better form or whatever, but they're ranked around where we are, our roster has a better top end than theirs (probably depth too), we've been playing beneath our potential recently, having an interrim manager and a period of internal strife that we should be exiting by now. You can say it's a 50-50 toss up, but we should be expecting to win our coin flips. Same goes for Peru who I was surprised to see are ranked 32nd in the world- right above Serbia, Egypt, Russia, Czechia, and Scotland. Doesn't look like they've played many strong opponents recently though.

Anyways, we can say that scoring a few goals, getting some points, and then going home with a strong third place finish or whatever is an encouraging step because we assume we're going to disappoint, but given our team and what we should be able to do, I think we should be the second best team in the group.

Why should we expect to win our coin flip matches? It contradicts with the meaning of a coin flip.

[Obinna]

7 hours ago, kacbru said:

I don't get the sense of entitlement that some on here have re Copa expectations. What has CMNT done to earn that? 

Qualified for the World Cup by topping their qualification section, ahead of Mexico and the USA. 

One could argue Canada wouldn't have qualified out of South America, but we'll never know. What we do know is that Peru and Chile couldn't get to the World Cup.

This is not me exhibiting a sense of entitlement, just giving you the answer to the question you ask.

If Canada didn't qualify for the World Cup the way they did, the current level of expectation for this tournament wouldn't exist. 

[kacbru]

I don't buy it. We are the team that every other team in the group will be counting on to get a result against. Obviously, it would be fantastic to get out of the group, but I don't see how we are in a position to write off Chile and Peru based on history, past WCQ results or by current FIFA rankings (as flawed as they are). 

[Obinna]

39 minutes ago, kacbru said:

I don't buy it. We are the team that every other team in the group will be counting on to get a result against. Obviously, it would be fantastic to get out of the group, but I don't see how we are in a position to write off Chile and Peru based on history, past WCQ results or by current FIFA rankings (as flawed as they are). 

I don't think anyone is writing off Peru and definitely not Chile. I think most neutrals look at this group and see Argentina and a 3-way battle for 2nd with Chile being the favourite. 

For Canada, Peru is the must win game. For Peru, Canada is the must win game. Pretty straight forward, no?

[Obinna]

14 hours ago, Watchmen said:

I think the general public will just be learning about this tournament in the next few weeks, won't be expecting any results against Argentina, and anything above "0-0-3" will be considered an improvement on the World Cup. Heck, even 0-0-3 but with more goals might be considered an improvement.

Yes. And when they do learn they'll understand it's an important tournament for Canada which falls in between both world cups. I think it all depends on how things are presented to them. The general sports fan understood that Canada topped qualifying, so there was expectation heading into the last world Cup, but since then Canada hasn't really done a lot, so maybe 0-0-3 with more goals will be considered improvement. Or, maybe 0-0-3 pushes this team back down to irrelevancy, goals or no goals, because this isn't the world Cup.

If we go 0-0-3 at the next world Cup but score more goals, then maybe that will be seen by some as improvement, because technically it is, but Copa America is not the World Cup, so I think expectations will be to not go 0-0-3. I am not sure scoring more goals but going 0-0-3 will do anything but confirm to people that Canada is still a joke and 2021 was only a blip.

[Sal333]

8 hours ago, Canuckia said:

That looks like a clip from a Bollywood film. They should break out into a song and dance any minute now.