Canada and the 2024 Copa America

[costarg]

2 minutes ago, lamptern said:

To me, it was always American Football vs Soccer = Artificial turf vs Natural grass

While English/Australian football can be played on nautical grass, why not American football?
It’s about maintenance cost or tradition?

Maintenance costs are mentioned frequently.  Closed stadiums are also obviously an issue.  I've also heard its really difficult to maintain the grass in the North Western parts.

And it's not like American football players want to play on it either.  It's really the owners that are just too powerful and make the rules.  I guess maybe the league also likes how clean the turf looks?  

Not like soccer where players can just choose to play in a different league.

[CanadianSoccerFan]

18 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Another one of these Qatar conspiracy theorists, charming.

[Admiral Murray]

Turns out that losing to Jamaica back in November was  one of the best things to happen to this team.  If we had won that game then probably Biello gets the head coaching job, we end up in a harder, lower profile group at Copa and this magical run never happens.  

Never in a million years thought that we would dominate Uruguay in a match but here we are.  Now counting down the days until the US and Mexico "friendlies".  LFG!

[Joe MacCarthy]

 

[Joe MacCarthy]

 

[Watchmen]

First time really watching the Copa America.  Way more dirty and thuggish than I realized it would be, though moments of skill managed to shine through.  Dodgy officiating so egregious it was maddening.  Seemed to be completely disorganized at times, even while being held in a country that's actually pretty great at hosting major sporting events.

Anyway, it was a lot of fun.  Packed bars, a national spotlight on the team, some moments none of us will forget.  Let's do it all again in 4 years.  Make it happen Vic.

[TGAA_Star]

3 hours ago, Watchmen said:

First time really watching the Copa America.  Way more dirty and thuggish than I realized it would be, though moments of skill managed to shine through.  Dodgy officiating so egregious it was maddening.  Seemed to be completely disorganized at times, even while being held in a country that's actually pretty great at hosting major sporting events.

Anyway, it was a lot of fun.  Packed bars, a national spotlight on the team, some moments none of us will forget.  Let's do it all again in 4 years.  Make it happen Vic.

Yeah I definitely want Copa to be a 16 team tournament from now on...10 South American teams and 6 teams from CONCACAF every cycle

[RJB]

2 hours ago, TGAA_Star said:

Yeah I definitely want Copa to be a 16 team tournament from now on...10 South American teams and 6 teams from CONCACAF every cycle

I think if we're joining regularly, then all of them qualifying automatically shouldn't continue.  I think that a co-Cop America should have 8 teams from each confederation, or at the very least should have mixed qualification so that there isn't a fixed number from each confederation.

[Obinna]

Just now, RJB said:

I think if we're joining regularly, then all of them qualifying automatically shouldn't continue.  I think that a co-Cop America should have 8 teams from each confederation, or at the very least should have mixed qualification so that there isn't a fixed number from each confederation.

I am fine with them all automatically qualifying. It's their tournament. We are guests.

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

A take a family break from football in the PM yesterday and there are these massive scenes to make up to. 

 

It is a bad look as many are saying.

Confusing a bit because it's not like most of these venues don't hold huge events regularly.   

[JamboAl]

25 minutes ago, RJB said:

I think if we're joining regularly, then all of them qualifying automatically shouldn't continue.  I think that a co-Cop America should have 8 teams from each confederation, or at the very least should have mixed qualification so that there isn't a fixed number from each confederation.

But how do you do qualification when the international calendar is already over packed?  Anyways, it’s CONMEBOL’s tournament, they aren’t going to exclude any of their countries for 2 more of CONCACAF’s.

[rick10]

Conmebol doesnt want concacaf teams in their tournament , thats the sentiment down south , they think it lowers the level of quality . For the longest time they were ok with Mexico and maybe the USA being invited to the tournament but thats about it . Now , Canada is seen as a better competition than Mexico or the USA , so they may get invited again , although the USA and Mexico bring more money than Canada , so who knows

Most federations down south are not even happy with the tournament being held in the USA.  Which is a valid point too since the concacaf doesn't invite conmebol teams to their tournament and the tournament was hosted traditionally by conmebol countries

Also , as much as Canada is praised for their play and players by the press down south , the canadian coach constant  comments and complains don't sit too well down south , they look at him like a cry baby , which is kind of true in some ways. Conmebol teams just play a different style , its like getting invited to the African nations cup and complaining about teams playing rough ... You want to level up then you just need to suck it up a little bit sometimes .  Complaining is good and he makes valid points but complaining all the time just makes you look like a cry baby.  Every team had bad calls. The officials were sucky most of the time , but its what we get . Also , the canadian coach needs to understand that the level of competition is higher and there will be more contact. Canada made a lot of fouls too and he is not complaining about those ones . He said nothing during the chile game , so it works both ways sometimes . I honestly don't think the refs affected Canada as much as the coach makes it seem. We played a man advantage 2 games during the group stage which help getting us through . Against Argentina , I thought the refs were ok , they did not change the outcome of the score ... 

If you want to play a more slow down pace game with less contact then the Euros may be a better place to go but they don't invite anyone outside of their federation to their tournaments

 

 

Edited July 15 by rick10

[Ottawafan]

Make it the Copa of the Americas.  10/6.

And if they didn't like the coaches continually pointing out the numerous deficiencies of their amateur hour tournament, then they should step their game up.

[rick10]

15 minutes ago, Ottawafan said:

Make it the Copa of the Americas.  10/6.

And if they didn't like the coaches continually pointing out the numerous deficiencies of their amateur hour tournament, then they should step their game up.

amateur hour tournament lol 

 

[GasPed]

23 minutes ago, rick10 said:

Conmebol doesnt want concacaf teams in their tournament , thats the sentiment down south , they think it lowers the level of quality . For the longest time they were ok with Mexico and maybe the USA being invited to the tournament but thats about it . Now , Canada is seen as a better competition than Mexico or the USA , so they may get invited again , although the USA and Mexico bring more money than Canada , so who knows

Most federations down south are not even happy with the tournament being held in the USA.  Which is a valid point too since the concacaf doesn't invite conmebol teams to their tournament and the tournament was hosted traditionally by conmebol countries

Also , as much as Canada is praised for their play and players by the press down south , the canadian coach constant  comments and complains don't sit too well down south , they look at him like a cry baby , which is kind of true in some ways. Conmebol teams just play a different style , its like getting invited to the African nations cup and complaining about teams playing rough ... You want to level up then you just need to suck it up a little bit sometimes .  Complaining is good and he makes valid points but complaining all the time just makes you look like a cry baby.  Every team had bad calls. The officials were sucky most of the time , but its what we get . Also , the canadian coach needs to understand that the level of competition is higher and there will be more contact. Canada made a lot of fouls too and he is not complaining about those ones . He said nothing during the chile game , so it works both ways sometimes . I honestly don't think the refs affected Canada as much as the coach makes it seem. We played a man advantage 2 games during the group stage which help getting us through . Against Argentina , I thought the refs were ok , they did not change the outcome of the score ... 

If you want to play a more slow down pace game with less contact then the Euros may be a better place to go but they don't invite anyone outside of their federation to their tournaments

 

 

I don't think Marsch complained any more than the CONMEBOL coaches did.  In fact, I think he fit right in with the rest with his complaining (although to be fair, Bielsa took it to an entirely new level).

[rick10]

19 minutes ago, Ottawafan said:

Make it the Copa of the Americas.  10/6.

And if they didn't like the coaches continually pointing out the numerous deficiencies of their amateur hour tournament, then they should step their game up.

I dont think they need to step up their game ... as a matter of fact i think we need them more than we do ...

Mexican press already blaming concacaf competition for their shitty performance , they want their team to compete copa america and copa libertadores instead of the shitty quality concacaf tournaments

 

i much rather have canada playing conmebol teams than the shittier competition in the concacaf 

Im in favour of one copa america but I m not sure if concacaf wants that though ... it would be nice in the long term 

Edited July 15 by rick10

[mpg_29]

The problem is that tournaments kinda suck without at least 16 teams and both confederations struggle with this. Concacaf can technically pull off a 16 team tournament itself but there is a quality drop off. Connembol quite literally cannot pull off a 16 team tournament without inviting teams.

[Obinna]

54 minutes ago, rick10 said:

Conmebol doesnt want concacaf teams in their tournament , thats the sentiment down south , they think it lowers the level of quality . For the longest time they were ok with Mexico and maybe the USA being invited to the tournament but thats about it . Now , Canada is seen as a better competition than Mexico or the USA , so they may get invited again , although the USA and Mexico bring more money than Canada , so who knows

Most federations down south are not even happy with the tournament being held in the USA.  Which is a valid point too since the concacaf doesn't invite conmebol teams to their tournament and the tournament was hosted traditionally by conmebol countries

Also , as much as Canada is praised for their play and players by the press down south , the canadian coach constant  comments and complains don't sit too well down south , they look at him like a cry baby , which is kind of true in some ways. Conmebol teams just play a different style , its like getting invited to the African nations cup and complaining about teams playing rough ... You want to level up then you just need to suck it up a little bit sometimes .  Complaining is good and he makes valid points but complaining all the time just makes you look like a cry baby.  Every team had bad calls. The officials were sucky most of the time , but its what we get . Also , the canadian coach needs to understand that the level of competition is higher and there will be more contact. Canada made a lot of fouls too and he is not complaining about those ones . He said nothing during the chile game , so it works both ways sometimes . I honestly don't think the refs affected Canada as much as the coach makes it seem. We played a man advantage 2 games during the group stage which help getting us through . Against Argentina , I thought the refs were ok , they did not change the outcome of the score ... 

If you want to play a more slow down pace game with less contact then the Euros may be a better place to go but they don't invite anyone outside of their federation to their tournaments

 

 

I was about to like this comment until I read the part about Marsch crying about not getting calls.

Wasn't he complaining about the foul/card ratio for all CONCACAF teams? Someone can post the stat if they have it handy, but it showed that every CONCACAF team had more cards per foul than any CONMEBOL team (or something like that).

Maybe that is coincidence but it does seem like biased reffing don't you think? 

In any case, that's different than crying about your team not getting calls.

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

Premier League OS mentions our 2 guys.

Scroll to almost to the bottom of the page...keep going. 

https://www.premierleague.com/news/4058559

[Ottawafan]

1 hour ago, rick10 said:

I dont think they need to step up their game ... as a matter of fact i think we need them more than we do ...

 

The organizers of COPA most certainly do.  Plenty of evidence and testimonials to back it up.

[Watchmen]

2 hours ago, Obinna said:

I was about to like this comment until I read the part about Marsch crying about not getting calls.

Wasn't he complaining about the foul/card ratio for all CONCACAF teams? Someone can post the stat if they have it handy, but it showed that every CONCACAF team had more cards per foul than any CONMEBOL team (or something like that).

Maybe that is coincidence but it does seem like biased reffing don't you think? 

In any case, that's different than crying about your team not getting calls.

I mean Chile filed a formal complaint about the officiating in all 3 matches. That's next level crying.

[Watchmen]

3 hours ago, rick10 said:

Conmebol doesnt want concacaf teams in their tournament , thats the sentiment down south , they think it lowers the level of quality . For the longest time they were ok with Mexico and maybe the USA being invited to the tournament but thats about it . Now , Canada is seen as a better competition than Mexico or the USA , so they may get invited again , although the USA and Mexico bring more money than Canada , so who knows

Most federations down south are not even happy with the tournament being held in the USA.  Which is a valid point too since the concacaf doesn't invite conmebol teams to their tournament and the tournament was hosted traditionally by conmebol countries

Also , as much as Canada is praised for their play and players by the press down south , the canadian coach constant  comments and complains don't sit too well down south , they look at him like a cry baby , which is kind of true in some ways. Conmebol teams just play a different style , its like getting invited to the African nations cup and complaining about teams playing rough ... You want to level up then you just need to suck it up a little bit sometimes .  Complaining is good and he makes valid points but complaining all the time just makes you look like a cry baby.  Every team had bad calls. The officials were sucky most of the time , but its what we get . Also , the canadian coach needs to understand that the level of competition is higher and there will be more contact. Canada made a lot of fouls too and he is not complaining about those ones . He said nothing during the chile game , so it works both ways sometimes . I honestly don't think the refs affected Canada as much as the coach makes it seem. We played a man advantage 2 games during the group stage which help getting us through . Against Argentina , I thought the refs were ok , they did not change the outcome of the score ... 

If you want to play a more slow down pace game with less contact then the Euros may be a better place to go but they don't invite anyone outside of their federation to their tournaments

The genie is out of the bottle for the Copa. They've been inviting teams since the early '90s, and the only question is if they revert to 12 teams or keep it at 16, and then where do those teams come from.

IMO, something that makes a tournament more special/important is continuity. Keeping the joint tournament builds it's prestige further, as it gives the chance to build new rivalries, benchmark how you did last time, and expose both federations to different styles of play (something that can only benefit everyone during the WC).

I think you'll find that this forum is in agreement with everyone down south - holding the tournament in the US (too often) is ridiculous. I want Canada to be back next time, but I want to see them in the environs of a South American country. Hell, I'd probably even look in to travelling for that.

And let's be honest- the federations down south can say they don't like this format, but they certainly like the payday from it. 16 teams = more games, CONCACAF brings the $$$ of the American and Mexican markets (tv and advertising), and there's benefits to having additional star players from other countries (the emergence of Canada, the EPL players on Jamaica, etc).

A joint tournament is a win-win for everyone, even of there's some growing pains along the way.

[Obinna]

31 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

I mean Chile filed a formal complaint about the officiating in all 3 matches. That's next level crying.

And yet according to big dick @rick10, Canada is viewed negatively for complaining down south. Do the Chileans get looked down upon as well given their formal complaints, or is it just us snowflake Canadians? How dare we complain, eh?

[Unnamed Trialist]

58 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

The genie is out of the bottle for the Copa. They've been inviting teams since the early '90s, and the only question is if they revert to 12 teams or keep it at 16, and then where do those teams come from.

IMO, something that makes a tournament more special/important is continuity. Keeping the joint tournament builds it's prestige further, as it gives the chance to build new rivalries, benchmark how you did last time, and expose both federations to different styles of play (something that can only benefit everyone during the WC).

I think you'll find that this forum is in agreement with everyone down south - holding the tournament in the US (too often) is ridiculous. I want Canada to be back next time, but I want to see them in the environs of a South American country. Hell, I'd probably even look in to travelling for that.

And let's be honest- the federations down south can say they don't like this format, but they certainly like the payday from it. 16 teams = more games, CONCACAF brings the $$$ of the American and Mexican markets (tv and advertising), and there's benefits to having additional star players from other countries (the emergence of Canada, the EPL players on Jamaica, etc).

A joint tournament is a win-win for everyone, even of there's some growing pains along the way.

This is how I feel.

A Copa America is far more interesting than the Gold Cup. In Gold Cup you can get out of a group "easily" and then, as we sit, you have to make semis to be considered a success. Which is the same as Nations League, Canada has to strive to always be top 4. So the challenge gets repeated constantly, GC, Nations League. 

Of course all that has to translate into winning Gold Cup and Nations League, a trophy a decade at least.

You want to know the importance of Copa? If Brazil had gotten to the final or won, Vinicius would be in the Ballon d'Or conversation, but failing in Copa has cooked his chances. In contrast, Messi is still going to get votes because Argentina won it. I realize Canadians are not clued into this, but a lot of nations voting the awards outside of UEFA also rate Copa very highly. 

Copa is a far better tournament, way more exciting, the level of play is incredible, and we have shown we can rise to the occasion. Play it in Colombia or Chile, maybe smaller stadiums or attendance, but still a great experience. Canada can handle it, we have proven that we are tough away, unlike the States who are still in the "how can we not get calls from the ref when playing on home soil?" mode of thinking.

Edited July 15 by Unnamed Trialist

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

Haven't seen this on here

https://www.reuters.com/sports/soccer/colombia-soccer-federation-head-son-arrested-after-copa-america-final-2024-07-15/

"Colombia soccer federation head and son arrested after Copa America final"