Canada and the 2024 Copa America

[dyslexic nam]

Someone check on Sal333

[Treppy2]

1 hour ago, dyslexic nam said:

Someone check on Sal333

With my vast experience on this board, I know how easy it is to make double posts.

Edited June 4 by Treppy2

[Treppy2]

1 hour ago, dyslexic nam said:

Someone check on Sal333

With my vast experience on this board, I know how easy it is to make double posts. 🙃

[JAVIERF]

My vast football knowledge and other stuff tells me don't be too cocky, accept my wisdom 

[dyslexic nam]

That is getting old.  

[johnyb]

3 hours ago, Sal333 said:

double post

Looks like a lot more than DOUBLE!

[JAVIERF]

7 hours ago, InglewoodJack said:

If Argentina played a style of football that reflected their society, they would’ve sold Messi to the US (somehow) and would’ve banned Di Maria from their team for being too woke or whatever. I do wonder what system that manager Elon Musk would employ though. 

Elon Musk?  Catenaccio for sure!!

[JAVIERF]

3 hours ago, Sal333 said:

And you thought he had a vast knowledge only of soccer. Don't you feel silly now?

It's football!! Mon pote!!

[JAVIERF]

Inaugural Copa America 2024 march Canada Vs Argentina could be similar maybe like when you played in Buenos Aires for our Bicentenary Party under the Peronist administration,  just before WC 2010. 

That was Bundesliga'sand swiss premiership maestro Danny Imhoff last match for Canada captain armband and wearing your #10 shirt.

Anyway how that match ended? 

 

Edited June 4 by JAVIERF

[Sal333]

16 minutes ago, JAVIERF said:

It's football!! Mon pote!!

In Italy it's calcio. You want to go and correct them also.

[Kent]

15 hours ago, JAVIERF said:

My vast football knowledge and other stuff tells me don't be too cocky, accept my wisdom 

Accept your wisdom? All you've suggested is that Canada play their bench against Argentina to save their starters for the last two games... which you say we will lose as well.

People just object to how you declare yourself an expert, not because of your experience with the game, but because you are Argentinian. I've played soccer for about 40 years, and I've watched countless hours of soccer in stadiums and on TV, but I was born in Canada, so I guess I know next to nothing. I used to work with a Brazilian that I don't think could tell you the area on the field that a goalkeeper is allowed to use their hands, but I guess he knows more about soccer than me because of where he was born and raised.

Not to mention, the line I quoted above is very cocky, but preaching to others to not be cocky.

[JAVIERF]

1 hour ago, Kent said:

Accept your wisdom? All you've suggested is that Canada play their bench against Argentina to save their starters for the last two games... which you say we will lose as well.

People just object to how you declare yourself an expert, not because of your experience with the game, but because you are Argentinian. I've played soccer for about 40 years, and I've watched countless hours of soccer in stadiums and on TV, but I was born in Canada, so I guess I know next to nothing. I used to work with a Brazilian that I don't think could tell you the area on the field that a goalkeeper is allowed to use their hands, but I guess he knows more about soccer than me because of where he was born and raised.

Not to mention, the line I quoted above is very cocky, but preaching to others to not be cocky.

No , Kent,  maybe you misunderstood me,  I didn't say Canada will get defeated by them two.  I talked about streetwise ,  of course there is a chance because of experience, but my insights were about how to get to the 2nd round 

 

As I said I'd keep the main focus is to remain undefeated.  But Canada's was exposed by Jamaica the last window.  I understand you played the game and you know it inside out,  but this particular new coach you hired isn't defensive minded. 

How do you get a result in that scenario ?  I said my opinion is testing your A players for Argentina, battle after the Chile-Peru match,  the Peru- Chile matches are like El Salvador Vs Honduras ,  there is a riot just around the corner.  

Sensible manager will be,  " ok if I'm cautious Vs the argies nobody is expecting our result,  lets keep them at bay let's try to nick a goal on a counterattack,  then let's pick up the pieces from the duel of Pacific. There maybe some bruises, some reds some bad tackles, mate" 

Edited June 5 by JAVIERF

[Obinna]

This may be wild to say, but I think Canada can get a result against Argentina.

The interviews recently with Davies, Johnston and Marsch all talk about the pressing they are working on, and Marsch sounded very pleased with the speed and intelligence our players are showing when it comes to embracing and implementing his ideas. There'll be mistakes, he admits, but couldn't you just see Canada pressing Argentina early, in the first minutes of the Copa America opener, and getting an early goal? That was exactly what (almost) happened against Belgium at the WC, in the opening group match.

With how Argentina stumbled in their Saudi Arabia opener at the World Cup, maybe some of those demons resurface here and Argentina goes on to smack everyone on their way to their 16th title.

BUT I guarantee this remote possibility for Canada doesn't happen if we don't play our best, @JAVIERF.

 

[CanadaFan123]

I don’t doubt that gegenpressing will produce goals for us but even if we score against Argentina how do we defend?

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

2 minutes ago, CanadaFan123 said:

I don’t doubt that gegenpressing will produce goals for us but even if we score against Argentina how do we defend?

Are we expected to defend well against them in any other system?

[Obinna]

9 minutes ago, CanadaFan123 said:

I don’t doubt that gegenpressing will produce goals for us but even if we score against Argentina how do we defend?

Pressing is basically proactive defending high up the pitch, when you think about it. 

The downside is when the press fails and we are exposed, but just something you have to accept if you want to be a pressing team.

The downside to bunkering is that you are inviting pressure and after bending for so long you ultimately break. The downside of going toe-to-toe is that you get outplayed by a more talented team.

There's always downside, but considering the athletic players we have, I don't mind seeing us press.

[Canuckia]

9 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Pressing is basically proactive defending high up the pitch, when you think about it. 

The downside is when the press fails and we are exposed, but just something you have to accept if you want to be a pressing team.

The downside to bunkering is that you are inviting pressure and after bending for so long you ultimately break. The downside of going toe-to-toe is that you get outplayed by a more talented team.

There's always downside, but considering the athletic players we have, I don't mind seeing us press.

The best defence is a good offence.

[SpursFlu]

I think playing against anyone so especially Argentina.. im always worried about our ability to defend 

[CanadaFan123]

38 minutes ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

Are we expected to defend well against them in any other system?

No, that’s my point. I’m talking about any system and getting a result against them if we score early. 

[JAVIERF]

1 hour ago, CanadaFan123 said:

I don’t doubt that gegenpressing will produce goals for us but even if we score against Argentina how do we defend?

That's the main issue !!

[JAVIERF]

Attacking is always more plausible than the art of defending , @ObinnaArgentima is for you like playing Croatia or Serbia that kind of a team.  Our players are pedestrians but they can pass it with grit and accuracy,  the ball in triangles and moving around it.  

On the Saudi match ,  remember we got 3 goals disallowed,  1 which was very rough,   kudos to them that scored and scored again,  we couldn't cancel their lead.

But that same Saudi team with 3 points Vs  Lewandowsland 1 point, they got knackered so badly by them .  That game if Roberto and company didn't miss a few sitters was a 5-0 match was the most uneven match of the WC after Spain Vs Keylor

[InglewoodJack]

1 hour ago, Obinna said:

This may be wild to say, but I think Canada can get a result against Argentina.

The interviews recently with Davies, Johnston and Marsch all talk about the pressing they are working on, and Marsch sounded very pleased with the speed and intelligence our players are showing when it comes to embracing and implementing his ideas. There'll be mistakes, he admits, but couldn't you just see Canada pressing Argentina early, in the first minutes of the Copa America opener, and getting an early goal? That was exactly what (almost) happened against Belgium at the WC, in the opening group match.

With how Argentina stumbled in their Saudi Arabia opener at the World Cup, maybe some of those demons resurface here and Argentina goes on to smack everyone on their way to their 16th title.

BUT I guarantee this remote possibility for Canada doesn't happen if we don't play our best, @JAVIERF.

 

Hard to picture a scenario where we get a result off Argentina, but if you look at their results over the last several years, if we are to pull off a result, playing them in the first game of a tournament is by far our best bet. If I'm remembering correctly, their last competitive match losses are against Uruguay (first match of last november's WCQ window), Saudi Arabia (first match of the WC, Brazil (Copa '20 semis, but it's Brazil), Columbia (Copa '20 first group stage match), and then France, Croatia in WC '18- Croatia was the second game in their group, but they also drew against Iceland in the opening match. They also lost their first WCQ match for the 2018 WC back in 2015 against Ecuador as well. Interestingly enough, I believe that Argentina was the home team in almost each of these games, most taking place outside of Argentina on neutral grounds- just like our match up against them will be.

Unmotivated Argentina comes in playing a match outside of South America against a re-energized Canada, half our team playing the biggest game of their lives with a new coach and system that better speaks to our strengths after having smoothed out some kinks against the Netherlands and France, our two best players finished their club seasons at peak form and both are playing for big transfers, if a big tackle takes Messi off early as a precautionary measure... still a long shot, but if I wanted to set up the perfect scenario for us to make something happen, barring an iceteca situation, this is exactly how I would set it up.

Edited June 5 by InglewoodJack

[Obinna]

1 hour ago, JAVIERF said:

Attacking is always more plausible than the art of defending , @ObinnaArgentima is for you like playing Croatia or Serbia that kind of a team.  Our players are pedestrians but they can pass it with grit and accuracy,  the ball in triangles and moving around it.  

For sure. Argentina are obviously a great team which can pick us apart. They won't be afraid to play through our press, or at least attempt to play through our press. I don't have any doubt they'll break our press at times, perhaps making us pay for it, but again that's just part of the risk you take. 

Hopefully Canada gain some solid experience and learn some lessons from France and Netherlands, as it won't cost us anything but FIFA points, something that isn't particularly relavent at the moment. If we conceed a few times playing this way in these friendlies, we will hopefully be less likely to make these mistakes at Copa America, where it counts. 

[Obinna]

1 hour ago, JAVIERF said:

Attacking is always more plausible than the art of defending , @ObinnaArgentima is for you like playing Croatia or Serbia that kind of a team.  Our players are pedestrians but they can pass it with grit and accuracy,  the ball in triangles and moving around it.  

And to this point, I will share what @red card shared in the pre-match thread:

As you can see, Croatia (your analog for Argentina), Netherlands and France all skew toward Slow & Intricate.

I am sure Argentina would plot in that bottom right quadrant also. Therefore, these Friendlies are good tests for Argentina. 

[Obinna]

1 hour ago, JAVIERF said:

That's the main issue !!

Yes how many will Argentina score is the issue, but the counterpoint is that we have that issue against Argentina no matter what.

We can try and play open and toe-to-toe, just as we did in the NL finals last year, and lose to a superior side, by multiple goals. OR we can bunker and force Argentina to break us down, which they will do eventually, as they have arguably have the best player on the planet for that.

OR we can press Argenntina and hope we can scrap a goal and hope they don't punish us too badly on the backend.

Either way you view it, we are going to be in tough against the World champs. May as well try and force the issue by pressing. We are going to do that anyways with Marsch, so it's not a question of what style to play, but anyway...