Canada and the 2024 Copa America

[costarg]

7 hours ago, Joe MacCarthy said:

 

Gawd I would love to see this happen at least once. This is just such a logical and natural lineup.  As much as I love and respect what Herdman has done, I feel we've been deprived of logic and common sense in some of the lineups. 

Would also like to see Davies up higher once Adekugbe and Laryea are back to 100%, but for now this looks great.

[TGAA_Star]

Or with Marsch now that he is manager for Canada, I hope he incorporates formations like 4-3-3 or 4-4-2 or 4-2-3-1 in these friendly matches against Netherlands 🇳🇱 and France 🇫🇷 or he incorporates them at Copa America. It is just my preference.

[Unnamed Trialist]

1 hour ago, costarg said:

Without knowing him personally, I'd reckon Borjan does not waltz.  Mosh pit is surely more his style.

He's just an hour from Vienna so don't speak too soon.

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

1 hour ago, costarg said:

Gawd I would love to see this happen at least once. This is just such a logical and natural lineup.  As much as I love and respect what Herdman has done, I feel we've been deprived of logic and common sense in some of the lineups. 

Would also like to see Davies up higher once Adekugbe and Laryea are back to 100%, but for now this looks great.

I laugh at the "logical" because, he is playing two players in different positions than their managers deemed correct and one player you said was wasted at the 6. That's not touching Davies who we have gone over. 

Let's be fair, it's line up you like and, I mostly do too, but there are some glaring misfits from what you have called "natural" before. 

[Canuckia]

8 hours ago, Joe MacCarthy said:

 

THIS!!!!!

[costarg]

34 minutes ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

I laugh at the "logical" because, he is playing two players in different positions than their managers deemed correct and one player you said was wasted at the 6. That's not touching Davies who we have gone over. 

Let's be fair, it's line up you like and, I mostly do too, but there are some glaring misfits from what you have called "natural" before. 

Ya, neither of Stache, Kone or Choiniere are that natural 6, only other natural option would be to fit in Piette.  It's the closest we can probably do at this point.  They can all kinda do that job as well as the 8 in sharing the midfield.  I don't see Marsch playing with a real 10.  His version of a 10 is probably Choiniere.  Lungs & legs to press and can pass/attack very well.

Tajon has also played a lot of winger, not like he's not very familiar with it.  WB and winger is still a very similar role with a lot of overlap in the skills required.  He can also run for days so he'd fit Marsch's requirements and system.

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

34 minutes ago, costarg said:

Ya, neither of Stache, Kone or Choiniere are that natural 6, only other natural option would be to fit in Piette.  It's the closest we can probably do at this point.  They can all kinda do that job as well as the 8 in sharing the midfield.  I don't see Marsch playing with a real 10.  His version of a 10 is probably Choiniere.  Lungs & legs to press and can pass/attack very well.

Tajon has also played a lot of winger, not like he's not very familiar with it.  WB and winger is still a very similar role with a lot of overlap in the skills required.  He can also run for days so he'd fit Marsch's requirements and system.

Marsch played a 10 pretty much his whole time at Leeds.  It was really important to his top situational pressing. Rodrigo and Daniel James the first season and then mostly Aaronson (who he bought for it) and Jack Harrison the second.  Other than Aaronson all those guy are more "natural" at other positions. 

(Looking up these next 2)

He played normally with 2 AMCs, not sure if you want to call the 10s, at Leipzig but then he did have all three of Forsberg, Nkunku and Szoboszlai in is squad. (He also played 3 at the back, almost half the time - he had some good centre backs and wingbacks.)

At Salzburg, he didn't, he just went 442 and played a more typical Red Bull style.  And he had better players (especially strikers) than most of his opponents.

 

So he is both willing to move people and change formation, if we can take history as a guide. 

 

(Just remember what you said about Tajon next time we talk about Davies)

Edited May 17 by WestHamCanadianinOxford

[Unnamed Trialist]

Waiting for him to call up Lucas Pos from a relegated Swiss league team for the shit to hit the fan here in living colour. Kaleidoscopically.

[TGAA_Star]

2 hours ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

Marsch played a 10 pretty much his whole time at Leeds.  It was really important to his top situational pressing. Rodrigo and Daniel James the first season and then mostly Aaronson (who he bought for it) and Jack Harrison the second.  Other than Aaronson all those guy are more "natural" at other positions. 

(Looking up these next 2)

He played normally with 2 AMCs, not sure if you want to call the 10s, at Leipzig but then he did have all three of Forsberg, Nkunku and Szoboszlai in is squad. (He also played 3 at the back, almost half the time - he had some good centre backs and wingbacks.)

At Salzburg, he didn't, he just went 442 and played a more typical Red Bull style.  And he had better players (especially strikers) than most of his opponents.

 

So he is both willing to move people and change formation, if we can take history as a guide. 

 

(Just remember what you said about Tajon next time we talk about Davies)

Then I would even support Marsch implementing a 4-4-2 formation in these next few games because out of any formation I think I prefer that the most for Canada 🇨🇦 

[Shway]

A lot of contradictions in things stated about a lot of players. 

I can dig the lineup, but Millar in-front of Davies is a no for me. I rather see Millar at LB if we want him in the starting XI.

Kone at the 10 or advanced CM, I'm not sure about either and I would want to see David there first with Larin in front. 

I think David skillet might be key in Marschs style of play. Bring out the David of Genk.

 

Edited May 17 by Shway

[costarg]

1 hour ago, Shway said:

A lot of contradictions in things stated about a lot of players. 

I can dig the lineup, but Millar in-front of Davies is a no for me. I rather see Millar at LB if we want him in the starting XI.

Kone at the 10 or advanced CM, I'm not sure about either and I would want to see David there first with Larin in front. 

I think David skillet might be key in Marschs style of play. Bring out the David of Genk.

 

I get the idea, I see how we can think of Millar as a good fit for LB and while it might be hard to believe, Millar has never actually played LB.  He's played WB, but was developed as a striker and winger.  I'd prefer avoiding that for the national team.  At this point it's just throwing darts.

If we swap Kone and Choiniere in the first graphic, I could see Jesse salivating at that front 4, that's literally 4 track athletes available for his relentless high press.  Move Davies in there once Laryea or Adekugbe are fit and its gonna get really exciting! 

I don't see Larin fitting in as well though. 

Edited May 18 by costarg

[costarg]

6 hours ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

Marsch played a 10 pretty much his whole time at Leeds.  It was really important to his top situational pressing. Rodrigo and Daniel James the first season and then mostly Aaronson (who he bought for it) and Jack Harrison the second.  Other than Aaronson all those guy are more "natural" at other positions. 

(Looking up these next 2)

He played normally with 2 AMCs, not sure if you want to call the 10s, at Leipzig but then he did have all three of Forsberg, Nkunku and Szoboszlai in is squad. (He also played 3 at the back, almost half the time - he had some good centre backs and wingbacks.)

At Salzburg, he didn't, he just went 442 and played a more typical Red Bull style.  And he had better players (especially strikers) than most of his opponents.

 

So he is both willing to move people and change formation, if we can take history as a guide. 

 

(Just remember what you said about Tajon next time we talk about Davies)

I'm glad he shows flexibility with the formation depending on the players he has available, and sticks to the system, not reinvent the team every match. 

[Stryker911]

1 hour ago, Shway said:

A lot of contradictions in things stated about a lot of players. 

I can dig the lineup, but Millar in-front of Davies is a no for me. I rather see Millar at LB if we want him in the starting XI.

Kone at the 10 or advanced CM, I'm not sure about either and I would want to see David there first with Larin in front. 

I think David skillet might be key in Marschs style of play. Bring out the David of Genk.

 

I actually prefer JJD's lineup. I would rather have players in their proper position that they play for club. This also allows Davies to get up the field knowing there is a defensively responsible player that will cover for him. Northern Futbol also makes a good point that Marsch will expect his midfield to press and cover alot of ground. Which is something Choiniere excels in.

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

5 minutes ago, Stryker911 said:

I actually prefer JJD's lineup. I would rather have players in their proper position that they play for club. This also allows Davies to get up the field knowing there is a defensively responsible player that will cover for him. Northern Futbol also makes a good point that Marsch will expect his midfield to press and cover alot of ground. Which is something Choiniere excels in.

The only thing I would say is that Marsch's system, from what I have seen does not rely on attacking fullbacks like a number of modern ones do.  

He generally wants to win the ball up the pitch and score, really before it gets to the  fullbacks. Fullbacks making runs not something I remember a lot of.

That combined with the fact he specifically talked about wanting to let Davies (and David) "express themselves" makes me think he is not thinking of him as a fullback.

But who knows what he decides after seeing what he really has to work with.

 

[Canuckia]

1 hour ago, costarg said:

I get the idea, I see how we can think of Millar as a good fit for LB and while it might be hard to believe, Millar has never actually played LB.  He's played WB, but was developed as a striker and winger.  I'd prefer avoiding that for the national team.  At this point it's just throwing darts.

If we swap Kone and Choiniere in the first graphic, I could Jesse salivating at that front 4, that's literally 4 track athletes available for his relentless high press.  Move Davies in there once Laryea or Adekugbe are fit and its gonna get really exciting! 

I don't see Larin fitting in as well though. 

Larin has to continue to play a role in this team. I don't see it being a starring one though.

[Shway]

2 hours ago, Stryker911 said:

I actually prefer JJD's lineup. I would rather have players in their proper position that they play for club. This also allows Davies to get up the field knowing there is a defensively responsible player that will cover for him. Northern Futbol also makes a good point that Marsch will expect his midfield to press and cover alot of ground. Which is something Choiniere excels in.

it sounds good to say that (your bolded part) but it doesn't make sense at all when you look at our best players. Tajon hasn't played in a front 3 for a long time. Millar hasn't played in a front 3 in what feels like never (Basel played 352, Charlton played a 352). So why does his formation make sense? If we are putting our most dangerous player further away from the net in a defensive position  but then saying there is someone responsible in front of him who can't do what he does going forward. Make it make sense to me. 

I want to leave Larin out the XI but it's hard for me to justify leaving him out when he always scores for Canada, even when he has wtf moments.

(For perspective, and not to derail I would leave Kane out of England because of his style, but I can't justify that)

I personally think Davies, and Tajon are our most talented and skillful players...1 plays WB, the other plays FB - full time.

Lastly...based on your last part (and this why I love the game), to me the midfield is your engine but having them do tooo much leaves you susceptible when your best/dangerous/game changers are coming from the outside. Thinking Kone is a 10...is beyond me. Thinking Davies with Canada is Davies at Bayern is beyond me as well - and I feel like anyone who doesn't see that doesn't know Davies abilities.

I get the hero ball shit that no one likes when Davies does that, but he's 23 which is crazy to still say...I'm not about stifling our greatest talent for anyone older. 

[Shway]

2 hours ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

The only thing I would say is that Marsch's system, from what I have seen does not rely on attacking fullbacks like a number of modern ones do.  

He generally wants to win the ball up the pitch and score, really before it gets to the  fullbacks. Fullbacks making runs not something I remember a lot of.

That combined with the fact he specifically talked about wanting to let Davies (and David) "express themselves" makes me think he is not thinking of him as a fullback.

But who knows what he decides after seeing what he really has to work with.

 

Trust me. I agree. 
Me and my brother watch games, and he's always on Larins lack of abilities...but then he pops up and scores and I'm like "see lol" that's why.

There will be a time to transition, it could be now (I think Bair could work in the projected style) but I also don't think the iceman plays a lone striker even in a Marsch system.

[Shway]

3 hours ago, costarg said:

I get the idea, I see how we can think of Millar as a good fit for LB and while it might be hard to believe, Millar has never actually played LB.  He's played WB, but was developed as a striker and winger.  I'd prefer avoiding that for the national team.  At this point it's just throwing darts.

If we swap Kone and Choiniere in the first graphic, I could see Jesse salivating at that front 4, that's literally 4 track athletes available for his relentless high press.  Move Davies in there once Laryea or Adekugbe are fit and its gonna get really exciting! 

I don't see Larin fitting in as well though. 

A lot of players are developed in a position as youth, but then get transitioned into a different position as a professional. Its natural. Johnston was never a fullback as a youth player but look at him now.

Verrrrry few players who are strikers at youth maintain that position. It's the same reason why wingers convert to fullbacks as they get older. 

Millars work rate isn't underrated here, and his defensive abilities is probably understated. Pair that with him being able to whip in across is why I think he could be a fullback.

[Shway]

My last spam of post, I think Jesse's success will come from using a player in a position that we think wouldn't work. 

[Canuckia]

10 minutes ago, Shway said:

it sounds good to say that (your bolded part) but it doesn't make sense at all when you look at our best players. Tajon hasn't played in a front 3 for a long time. Millar hasn't played in a front 3 in what feels like never (Basel played 352, Charlton played a 352). So why does his formation make sense? If we are putting our most dangerous player further away from the net in a defensive position  but then saying there is someone responsible in front of him who can't do what he does going forward. Make it make sense to me. 

I want to leave Larin out the XI but it's hard for me to justify leaving him out when he always scores for Canada, even when he has wtf moments.

(For perspective, and not to derail I would leave Kane out of England because of his style, but I can't justify that)

I personally think Davies, and Tajon are our most talented and skillful players...1 plays WB, the other plays FB - full time.

Lastly...based on your last part (and this why I love the game), to me the midfield is your engine but having them do tooo much leaves you susceptible when your best/dangerous/game changers are coming from the outside. Thinking Kone is a 10...is beyond me. Thinking Davies with Canada is Davies at Bayern is beyond me as well - and I feel like anyone who doesn't see that doesn't know Davies abilities.

I get the hero ball shit that no one likes when Davies does that, but he's 23 which is crazy to still say...I'm not about stifling our greatest talent for 

I definitely hear what you're saying. Personally, I like JJD's selection based on the speed that will be required for Marsch's style of game. I would also love to see Davies up higher, but I am concerned about the back line getting hung out to dry. I agree that Kone as a 10 seems like a bit of a gamble.

[narduch]

3 minutes ago, Shway said:

My last spam of post, I think Jesse's success will come from using a player in a position that we think wouldn't work. 

He's going to play Davies at striker 

[Shway]

Just now, narduch said:

He's going to play Davies at striker 

I meant more surprising we seen that already, for me Davies could play anywhere with Canada except for CB, or CM.

[narduch]

1 minute ago, Shway said:

I meant more surprising we seen that already, for me Davies could play anywhere with Canada except for CB, or CM.

I'm half joking but if were going to press...

[Shway]

5 minutes ago, Canuckia said:

I definitely hear what you're saying. Personally, I like JJD's selection based on the speed that will be required for Marsch's style of game. I would also love to see Davies up higher, but I am concerned about the back line getting hung out to dry. I agree that Kone as a 10 seems like a bit of a gamble.

And see I get the whole backline being hung out to dry bit...but for me, there's only so much FB could do. If one ball beats all, than one ball beats all...we can't except Davies to make a 60 yard overlap dash forward, and then do that going back...it's unrealistic for me. 

Canada will be the reason why he has injuries if that's the case.

[Canuckia]

2 minutes ago, Shway said:

And see I get the whole backline being hung out to dry bit...but for me, there's only so much FB could do. If one ball beats all, than one ball beats all...we can't except Davies to make a 60 yard overlap dash forward, and then do that going back...it's unrealistic for me. 

Canada will be the reason why he has injuries if that's the case.

Good point.