Match Thread: World Cup Group F - Matchday 3 - Canada v Morocco - December 1, 2022 - 6pm local time / 10am ET / 7am PT

[Corazon]

1 minute ago, jonovision said:

Next 30 pages of this thread: everything Davies does is bad, Kaye awful, Borjan retire, fire Herdman

It's amazing how many here bring out their pitchforks for whoever they've been waiting to scorn as soon as we are up against it.  

[king1010]

2 minutes ago, Cicero said:

We shouldn't fool ourselves with this second half, we gave them what they needed, got a fortunate goal, and then they managed the game. There's no moral victory at all from this.

They came half an inch from blowing the game. Thats playing with fire. They were lucky, especially with us gifting them a goal. 

[dyslexic nam]

Annoying to see guys walking back when Milan was trying to cross in after Davies’ throw.  This is the last minute or two of your World Cup - get TF onside and fight for a point.  

[Pottsy3]

Atiba / Hoilett our best players on the night. Tajon ran out of steam. I appreciate how much Phonzie wanted it.

 

It is what it is. One goal down: scored our first WC goals this tournament.

 

Next WC, the expectations are going to be a bit higher. Lots to build on. Not going to dwell, let’s keep moving forward.

[Cicero]

We came out with the wrong approach, in my opinion. Morocco were always going to be hyped, wanting to go for it, which is not really their game. Should've drawn them into it and hopefully made them pay. But Herdman wants to play 'our game' even when it doesn't make sense, and let our weaknesses get exposed. Stupid.

[finchster]

I don't care what anyone says- Canada is the second worst team in the world cup. 

That is a big disappointment for me.

[Corazon]

Our defense definitely exposed all of its weaknesses this tournament but let's also not forget how hard it is to win games without getting any shots on net.

[Free kick]

Alot finger pointing at individual defenders.   IMHO its not individual defenders that have been our Achilles heel, its the team defense.   Thats includes the back line, the keeper, the Defensive midfielders, and the overall organization of the defensive game.  Kamal Miller, for example, made some great plays in this world cup.  but why was he put in a position to have to make great plays?  its becsue somebody else left him in vulnerable position 

[Watchmen]

Bring on Copa America 2024.

[king1010]

Just now, Cicero said:

We came out with the wrong approach, in my opinion. Morocco were always going to be hyped, wanting to go for it, which is not really their game. Should've drawn them into it and hopefully made them pay. But Herdman wants to play 'our game' even when it doesn't make sense, and let our weaknesses get exposed. Stupid.

Same could be said for the croatia game. We went after it and got exposed. 
 

[canadave]

 

Overall just really disappointing but probably not unexpected. This is what Canada has been for so long. The last 2 years now feel like a dream.

Lots to clean up before 2026, including Davies playing in the right spot and never taking any more pens, FKs, or corners. Need come CBs to materialize out of thin air. And I worry that we will play very few truly competitive matches to fix stuff in. Certainly not expecting many outside of CONCACAF. 

[dyslexic nam]

Just now, Free kick said:

Alot finger pointing at individual defenders.   IMHO its not individual defenders that have been our Achilles heel, its the team defense.   Thats includes the back line, the keeper, the Defensive midfielders, and the overall organization of the defensive game.  Kamal Miller, for example, made some great plays in this world cup.  but why was he put in a position to have to make great plays?  its becsue somebody else left him in vulnerable position 

Agree with this - especially when it comes to the formation. 3 central mids allow us to soak up a lot more pressure and be less porous. 

[Pottsy3]

This tournament proved the need for more competitive matches too. These WC matches were so clearly a step faster than the warmup friendlies. The Copa America inclusion would be insanely massive.

[king1010]

3 minutes ago, finchster said:

I don't care what anyone says- Canada is the second worst team in the world cup. 

That is a big disappointment for me.

We finished right where the rankings said we would in our group, which was one of, if not the toughest of the tournament. 

Edited December 1, 2022 by king1010

[Cicero]

1 minute ago, Free kick said:

Alot finger pointing at individual defenders.   IMHO its not individual defenders that have been our Achilles heel, its the team defense.   Thats includes the back line, the keeper, the Defensive midfielders, and the overall organization of the defensive game.  Kamal Miller, for example, made some great plays in this world cup.  but why was he put in a position to have to make great plays?  its becsue somebody else left him in vulnerable position 

We kept pushing high. If that was the plan, you have to get some speed back there so you can cover. I don't know what kind of speed Cornelius has, but maybe he would've been better if this was the strategy.

[jonovision]

2 minutes ago, finchster said:

I don't care what anyone says- Canada is the second worst team in the world cup. 

That is a big disappointment for me.

No objective way of determining this without a 32 game round robin.

[Corazon]

I am still so proud of our men.  We can want more from our players and coaches without being so critical.  I'm going to choose to praise them for everything they did in getting us here.  We were always underdogs on paper and controlled parts of every game.

[mpg_29]

3 minutes ago, finchster said:

I don't care what anyone says- Canada is the second worst team in the world cup. 

That is a big disappointment for me.

I mean if Fifa rankings mean anything that was always sort of the case.

[Unnamed Trialist]

18 minutes ago, Cicero said:

We shouldn't fool ourselves with this second half, we gave them what they needed, got a fortunate goal, and then they managed the game. There's no moral victory at all from this.

A bit I think, a bit of moral victory. 

We gifted them the first, were weak on their second, played well in the 2nd half, even with Morocco holding back. We were very close to a tie.

And then Morocco would have been even more nervous, although I think that even with a loss they would have gone through on Goal Difference.

I think the only real negative today was Borjan, as that put the whole team out of sorts, it affected our dynamic on the field. I'd add Herdman to that, as he did not manage some basics very well at all. Starting with Davies. But the changes were correctly done, however much we might think Piette deserved minutes. 

The ref, imo, mediocre. If you look at what he called Vitoria for in the air, they had a few of those on us in their box, the Johnston push on the header, and one near the end where someone also elbowed our player. He was soft on Morocco cards and a bit severe with us, as if trying to help keep them clean for later rounds. 

I liked Osorio, thought Kone was fine in his minutes and has a great upside; Vitoria was mostly good and deserved better from the ref. Was pissed off at Johnston in many moments, but he is a solid player and I ended up forgiving him. Same with Hoillet, a cagey, intelligent player who deserved to be taking all our free kicks. Davies used incorrectly and then misinterpreting the role, a double whammy against us. 

Edit: Tajon, probably our most consistent player over 3 games, and at his age, amazing.

Edited December 1, 2022 by Unnamed Trialist

[Lansdude]

We were in a tough group because of the pot system, the performance and tactical margins for getting out of the group were low, and we blew them. We had a chance and it was a small one, but we didn't give ourselves the best chance.

[Watchmen]

1 minute ago, jonovision said:

No objective way of determining this without a 32 game round robin.

Were they the 2nd worst?  That's hard to say.  Did they FINISH 2nd worst?  I'd say that's a bit more objectively easy to say: no points, and only beat Qatar on goal difference/goals for.

[football_world]

52 minutes ago, football_world said:

I don't want to be negative and overly critical, but I really don't like the way we are playing.  I hope we come back and play better in the second half, but man, we look pretty bad out there.  We're lucky that we're not down 3 or 4 goals (the 3rd goal by Morocco, the Moroccan player looked onside to me on the replay, but the refs called him offside, so we got lucky there).

First and foremost, Borjan.  I expect better of him, much better. What is with him?  He is like a different keeper than the one that got us through CONCACAF qualifying. Seems like half the shots fired at Borjan, go in.  He is just not having a good World Cup. And he is lucky, IMO, that the refs called off the 3rd goal by Morocco.

Alphonso Davies.  While Alphonso Davies can run circles around CONCACAF and MLS defenders, his game as an attacking midfielder has been exposed at the World Cup.   His dribbling just isn't good enough to get past a higher level of defenders, which CONCACAF and MLS don't have.  I think this is why Bayern won't play Alphonso Davies as an attacking midfielder and has him playing left back.  I said this in the Alphonso Davies thread already and I'll say it again here - Alphonso Davies is a world class left back - but he is not a world class attacking midfielder.

And our defense is just slow and has been exposed by Morocco and Croatia.  I honestly think Herdman needs to play 4 defenders at the back, because our defense has been woefully exposed at the World Cup.  Yeah, our midfield and forward line will suffer if we play 4 defenders at the back, but at least we have an extra man to help cover.  I wish our defensive line and defenders were just better, but they are not, and only 3 defenders at the back is not enough.

Overall, I think we need better quality.  It will take time to develop the quality and I hope we get there one day, but I don't thin we have it yet.

Okay, on to the second half, I hope we have a turnaround and play much better in the second half.

So my analysis after the match is more or less what I wrote above. Good to see we played better in the second half.

Another thing I want to add is that our passing was just awful in the first half. We couldn't make basic passes, and we kept making mistake  after mistake in our passes.

Our set pieces throughout the World Cup, including corner kicks, were also awful.  And we don't have top tier finishers - that's why we couldn't score against Belgium, and wasted our opportunities throughout all 3 games.

But this comes down to quality. We don't have the quality of players yet. It will take time. Here is to hoping MLS improves over the next 20 years - I think that can help us develop that quality that we need.

[dyslexic nam]

I am disappointed with the outcome but not with the team - if that makes sense. We could (probably should) have gotten a result against Belgium.  We could have gotten a result today.  Definitely deflating. 

but it doesn’t take away from the overall achievement for me.  We were one of the lowest ranked teams in the tournament and the lowest in our group.  This was always going to be a monumental challenge and anyone thinking we were entitled to advance was being shortsighted IMO.  We certainly didn’t over achieve but we faced some quality teams that objectively had better and deeper talent than we did.  The outcome doesn’t shock me.  

Still super proud of the boys.  That doesn’t mean there won’t be (or shouldn’t be) critiques.  There will be.  But I am so very happy we had this experience.   

[king1010]

Just now, Lansdude said:

We were in a tough group because of the pot system, the performance and tactical margins for getting out of the group were low, and we blew them. We had a chance and it was a small one, but we didn't give ourselves the best chance.

That missed penalty to start the tournament really set us back. Even a draw against Belgium and we still have everything to play for. 

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

1 minute ago, Corazon said:

I am still so proud of our men.  We can want more from our players and coaches without being so critical.  I'm going to choose to praise them for everything they did in getting us here.  We were always underdogs on paper and controlled parts of every game.

Am proud, there were errors and need to be addressed.

Maturity at this level can't be gained through speeches.