Match Thread: World Cup Group F - Matchday 2 - Croatia v Canada - November 27, 2022 - 7pm local time / 11am ET / 8am PT

[VinceA]

10 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

Yeah, last game David was ineffective because he was isolated up too all alone - and many people were complaining what he needed a strike partner.  So this time Herdman gets Larin on the field to help out up top, and people are wishing for an extra body in midfield.  I don’t  think we can have it both ways.   

We can though in a 3-5-2.

We stopped running that because Adekugbe became indispensable and Herdman wanted Davies, Larin, Buchanan and David on the pitch at the same time, which meant he wanted both wingers and wingbacks in a 3-4-3 or 4-4-2. That line of justification went out the window with Adekugbe starting on the bench in both games.

I also don't think it would have been a bad thing at all to leave some of our firepower on the bench.

We emptied the clip from the start in both games and we lost both games.

[mpg_29]

13 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

Yeah, last game David was ineffective because he was isolated up too all alone - and many people were complaining what he needed a strike partner.  So this time Herdman gets Larin on the field to help out up top, and people are wishing for an extra body in midfield.  I don’t  think we can have it both ways.   

I agree. Though I'm thinking to unlock David you probably more CAM's with him...not Larin.

[clamlinguine]

There was an emphasis on scoring our first World Cup goal, and I believe there was a letdown once we got it. Our next benchmark is to get some points and a win, let's hope we accomplish both this year to avoid any such distractions in 2026.

[clamlinguine]

35 minutes ago, VinceA said:

KJ with some great insight and doesn't sugarcoat it.

The US managed to outplay England, we are as good as they are, so while this diatribe sounds convincing, it's bs. That's a good thing. 

[mpg_29]

4 minutes ago, clamlinguine said:

There was an emphasis on scoring our first World Cup goal, and I believe there was a letdown once we got it. Our next benchmark is to get some points and a win, let's hope we accomplish both this year to avoid any such distractions in 2026.

I win against Morocco would be huge imo...and it's still there for the taking.

[Kadenge]

20 minutes ago, mpg_29 said:

I agree. Though I'm thinking to unlock David you probably more CAM's with him...not 

Just now, clamlinguine said:

The US managed to outplay England, we are as good as they are, so while this diatribe sounds convincing, it's bs. That's a good thing. 

 

England were awful v US though, while Croatia were brilliant today

[mpg_29]

Just now, Kadenge said:

England were awful v US though, while Croatia were brilliant today

England are a solid team but due to the English player value inflation due to the Premier League they are always bit overrated imo.

[clamlinguine]

Just now, Kadenge said:

England were awful v US though, while Croatia were brilliant today

Sure Croatia is better than us, but a few healthy (younger) of our mids on the field would have had this one being a nail biter to the end.

[mpg_29]

Just now, clamlinguine said:

Sure Croatia is better than us, but a few healthy (younger) of our mids on the field would have had this one being a nail biter to the end.

This would be true if we had 2 more Kone's...

[clamlinguine]

Just now, mpg_29 said:

This would be true if we had 2 more Kone's...

hehe....It may be that we, or anyone, are lucky to have one Kone. 

 

[Allez les Rouges]

4 hours ago, rydermike said:

Okay, so what we need now is a bench clearing brawl in the Croatia-Belgium game, making FIFA kick both teams out of the World Cup, leaving us to advance

You know, given how we won the Davis Cup (eliminated in qualifications only to be promoted after Russia's exclusion), maybe we just completed Step 1 of winning this year's World Cup...

[Floortom]

23 minutes ago, clamlinguine said:

The US managed to outplay England, we are as good as they are, so while this diatribe sounds convincing, it's bs. That's a good thing. 

We are not as good as the US no matter the results in the octagonal. The have much more talent and their midfield can actually compete against the worlds best while we start 39 year old Atiba Hutchinson.

again, part of the anger from the loss is being driven by totally unrealistic expectations like the above.

[lamptern]

1 hour ago, Watchmen said:

Time for the US/Mexico/Canada to quietly begin discussions with CONMEBOL about participating in the next Copa America.  Because they all need more big game experience, and waiting 3.5 years for it is a bad decision. And the Gold Cup, Nations League, and friendlies aren't "big games".

Either top 6 teams from next Gold cup or highest 6 FIFA ranked from CONCACAF should be invited for a 16 team Copa America.

Gold Cup and NL are for gel and develop.

[clamlinguine]

4 minutes ago, Floortom said:

We are not as good as the US no matter the results in the octagonal. The have much more talent and their midfield can actually compete against the worlds best while we start 39 year old Atiba Hutchinson.

again, part of the anger from the loss is being driven by totally unrealistic expectations like the above.

I'm not angry about the loss. What is unrealistic is to say the US has much more talent than us. Our problem was mostly starting Atiba when we didn't have to. 

[Unnamed Trialist]

My evaluation, after a long break, a bit of reflection.

1-we accomplished an important WC objective for the country, scoring, and were winning, comfortably for about 25 minutes. This was a good stretch and we were worth our lead. Then we lost a bit of focus and defensive shape, and became less able to impose any of our ideas. 

Morocco gives us a chance to accomplish another goal, and to play without pressure to get it (a draw, a win).

2-Croatia played expertly, showing patience, gradually pushing the right spots and trying us, not getting nervous. And playing cleanly as well. When we finally started getting on our back heels or missing assignments in the middle, they were able to break through. We did not challenge their mids, or challenged and got burnt on give and goes. Their entire game was extremely consistent, almost all their players were solid, their subs as well. So as we pressed to get back it wasn't surprising to see them get a few more, too many I'd say, on the counter.

3-Even down 2-1 well into the 2nd half we were trying and had a few chances. We were in the game, which is admirable. While we are disappointed by the scoreline, we were not out of this until the final 20 minutes or so. Always try to stay alive for a result as deep into a match as possible. We're competiting, and we are not embarrassing ourselves.

4-Playing stronger teams exposes our coaching limitations. Or to put it another way: we do not know what our playing model is. We don't really have a system in the midfield, for example, we rely on the flanks and the tactic is rudimentary. The subs come on and all too often, you can't figure out where they are playing (exception today, Kone). The mids aren't even that clearly differentiated, and they don't combine that effectively. In fact, apart from the back line, the team does not associate that well, not David-Larin, not Davies really with anyone, Tajon is very isolated, we did not see a great Hutch-Eustaquio team. At some point you have to ask of your coach more work on a striking duo with wing support, on a midfield three, on all sorts of triangles on the field that have been worked on too little. Even playing out of the back.

5-Some individuals stood out today, others not so much. Hutchinson was really exposed, the back line needed help on all the goals, Borjan made a few top saves but on at least 1-2 of the goals you'd think he'd do more. Davies, once again, often bogged us down, though he was fairly good. Larin and David were poor, David especially looked lost. Then I'd say Tajon was good, Eustaquio while he lasted, Kone looked very strong, as with Osorio, Hoillet. The latter two suggested a level of maturity that could have helped first half--should have been one of them for Hutch, for example.

6-If you wanted to start talking about positions that need upgrading, to take us at least into the top 3 in Concacaf and to 25-30 in the world, you'd have to talk about maybe 4-5 that really do need a step up. 

Edited November 27, 2022 by Unnamed Trialist

[Floortom]

24 minutes ago, clamlinguine said:

I'm not angry about the loss. What is unrealistic is to say the US has much more talent than us. Our problem was mostly starting Atiba when we didn't have to. 

They absolutely have much more talent than us by any reasonable metric - transfermaket valuation, players in top 5 leagues, etc.Sure Herdman made some mistakes but overall he has done a great job with this group - a few high end talents surrounded by guys in tier 2-4 leagues.

On our best day we can compete with most squads, but when its not all going wel llike tonight you can clearly see our deficiencies. We're very weak in the midfield and backline. We don't have one guy playing in a top 5 league amongst that entire group (closest would be Steph). That's not going to get it done most of the time against the world's best. It's really that simple. 

[Miche]

Ya know... we could still finish ahead of Belgium... 🙃

[canuckgbp]

1 minute ago, Miche said:

Ya know... we could still finish ahead of Belgium... 🙃

[clamlinguine]

I'd like one of you who criticize AD's hero ball to find one of our opponents who will join you in the criticism. Anyone playing us knows why AD does what he does, and they do not enjoy it. Tajon has the same approach and it's the best approach for us at present afaic. These two need to make the extra moves to crack defences open. It happened many times against Belgium with the supporting cast not having the guile to finish.  Ad Laryea to the hero ball group. He's amazing. I'm always surprised when he gets subbed off early.

[SpursFlu]

Losing Eustaquio at half and having to leave Atiba on the pitch was very difficult 

On Croatias first 2 goals Atiba's heavy legs kinda cost

Not throwing him under the bus at 39 its amazing he's out their playing his heart out 

Overall I'm not all that upset. Croatia is top notch. Scoreline looks bad but first goal now get our first win and overall pretty rewarding World Cup for Canada. It's just the beginning 

[Free kick]

3 hours ago, jhoops__ said:

Need to win the gold cup next summer!

We won the Gold cup in 2000.   Eight months later we were eliminated from WCQ and didn’t even make the the final round of qualifying.  The Gold Cup can be fun to watch because we don’t have anything else in between WC’s but it doesnt mean anything and it doesnt prove anything.  Many if the top players in Concacaf over the years have skipped playing in the Gold cup.
 

Also, its not the Euros and its not the Copa America and that’s in part because we are are in a region where there many nations but far too few that are competitive. 

Edited November 28, 2022 by Free kick

[Unnamed Trialist]

2 minutes ago, Free kick said:

We won the Gold cup in 2000.   Eight months later we were eliminated from WCQ and didn’t even make the the final round of qualifying.  The Gold Cup can be fun to watch because we don’t have anything else in between WC’s but it doesnt mean any and it doesnt prove anything.  Many if the top players in Concacaf over the years have skipped playing in the Gold cup.  

If it doesn't matter, why are the only winners the US and Mexico? Why do they play to win and celebrate when they do?

Stepping up means playing a final regularly and winning too. That'd mean we are beating the US and Mexico with some consistency.

 

[Free kick]

48 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

If it doesn't matter, why are the only winners the US and Mexico? Why do they play to win and celebrate when they do?

Stepping up means playing a final regularly and winning too. That'd mean we are beating the US and Mexico with some consistency.

 

I am not saying:  Blow it off.   I am saying  that is doesnt prepare you for the competition that we faced this week.

A combined tourney with SA?   Thats another story,  and yes, I agree that that  would be usefull and meaningful.  

Edited November 28, 2022 by Free kick

[jhoops__]

Whatever,  I still remember our gold cup win and to this day people still talk about it.  I think it would be incredible to beat Mexico in the final next summer and absolutely meaningful for our program…

Edited November 27, 2022 by jhoops__

[Bertuzzi44]

Not getting a result vs Belgium was a real miss, I always had Croatia as the class of the group.

But, I am very proud of the boys today. Like others, that Davies goal was an amazing moment I will never forget. Holy shit that was EPIC!!! Especially remembering all the CMNT moments from the past: going to Canada vs Guatemala in the rain at f@#king swangard stadium and losing all while being outnumbered but Guate fans - most of which were Canadian. Cycle after cycle of missed World Cups and not even getting CLOSE. Like, we were baaaaaaad.

And then today, scoring a goal to go ahead of 2018 World Cup finalists CROATIA at the freaking World Cup. Wow. Just wow. Despite the loss, I am still on cloud 9 when everything is put in context.

MOVING FORWARD we need to continue to improve and up our level. This is my Canada wish list:

1) Get a result against Morocco

2) Win (yes, win) the Gold Cup

3) Develop or find some very good CBs. Vitoria has played out of his mind, but at 35, we cannot depend on him going forward. 

4) Learn how to pace ourselves and be more consistent.

5) Round of 16 in 2026. EXPECTED!

I am very optimistic about the future but we must be vigilant. At the highest level, one mistake or moment can cost you. But remembering where we came from to the stage we are on today, I can't help but feel pride. 🥰