Match Thread: World Cup Group F - Matchday 2 - Croatia v Canada - November 27, 2022 - 7pm local time / 11am ET / 8am PT

[Bison44]

Just now, mpg_29 said:

Still no one is actually answering the question..... Piette or MAK?

 

Start Kone for Hutch, but still could have used Oso in there as a third mid.  Bring Hutch and or Kaye in as a sub in second half as needed.  Piette is prob the last mid of the bench for Herdman.  

[Free kick]

The positives that I take away from these two matches: 

1). We played well.  We showed that whatever we lacked had little or nothing to do with talent.  But at the world cup,  its not just about talent or playing pretty.  You have to be consistent. 
 

2) Canadian support was great in these two games.   Canadians showed up in numbers and were more vocal and emotionally engaged than the support for the opponents.    In 1986. No one showed up to our games.

Edited November 27, 2022 by Free kick

[Watchmen]

Time for the US/Mexico/Canada to quietly begin discussions with CONMEBOL about participating in the next Copa America.  Because they all need more big game experience, and waiting 3.5 years for it is a bad decision. And the Gold Cup, Nations League, and friendlies aren't "big games".

[youllneverwalkalone]

1 minute ago, Watchmen said:

Time for the US/Mexico/Canada to quietly begin discussions with CONMEBOL about participating in the next Copa America.  Because they all need more big game experience, and waiting 3.5 years for it is a bad decision. And the Gold Cup, Nations League, and friendlies aren't "big games".

This is what I've been thinking about too. But winning nations league and the Gold Cup -or at least trying- would go along way to justifying inclusion in Copa and paving the way to understand how to win a match in 2026 -where we only get two shots to win the group in which we will likely have one superior side.

[gator]

3 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

Time for the US/Mexico/Canada to quietly begin discussions with CONMEBOL about participating in the next Copa America.  Because they all need more big game experience, and waiting 3.5 years for it is a bad decision. And the Gold Cup, Nations League, and friendlies aren't "big games".

I never was real keen on this idea in the past but when you start matching up with the big boys of world soccer you realize how important it is to increase our overall level of competition!

[jhoops__]

2 minutes ago, youllneverwalkalone said:

This is what I've been thinking about too. But winning nations league and the Gold Cup -or at least trying- would go along way to justifying inclusion in Copa and paving the way to understand how to win a match in 2026 -where we only get two shots to win the group in which we will likely have one superior side.

Need to win the gold cup next summer!

[canuckgbp]

24 minutes ago, mpg_29 said:

Still no one is actually answering the question..... Piette or MAK?

 

I would have started 

Kone- Eustaquio- Osorio 

If Eustaquio can only go 45, think I would go Kaye especially down 2-1. 
 

Point is you can’t put only two in the midfield and one without legs against an elite 3. Would our 3 get outclassed? Most likely. Outrun? Less likely. 

Edited November 27, 2022 by canuckgbp

[mpg_29]

1 minute ago, Bison44 said:

Start Kone for Hutch, but still could have used Oso in there as a third mid.  Bring Hutch and or Kaye in as a sub in second half as needed.  Piette is prob the last mid of the bench for Herdman.  

So with Eustaquio injured after 35 mins and Hutch not starting. Our core DM for 70+ mins in a WC game against Croatia is essentially a 20 yr old? A lot to ask of Kone imo...and many would have questioned that as equally.

Everybody is making this out to be very obvious when I don't think it is at all. 

[Watchmen]

2 minutes ago, gator said:

I never was real keen on this idea in the past but when you start matching up with the big boys of world soccer you realize how important it is to increase our overall level of competition!

I've watched the US and Mexico compete against each other for 20+ years and then think they're ready for the World Cup ("we're rated in the top 20! we're Gold Cup champions!") and they never are.

As a bonus: let's face it, none of us want the momentum of the "casual" fans getting on board to completely evaporate, but none of them are going to be excited by the Gold Cup or Nations League (some good friendlies would though).  But another tournament with the likes of Brazil/Argentina (and a bunch of the other really exciting/talented teams)  in it?  That will hook the casuals back in.

[A.D.I.D.A.S.]

5 minutes ago, jhoops__ said:

Need to win the gold cup next summer!

UP THE REDS, DOWN WITH THE DUOPOLY! 😤

[Watchmen]

Just now, mpg_29 said:

So with Eustaquio injured after 35 mins and Hutch not starting. Our core DM for 70+ mins in a WC game against Croatia is essentially a 20 yr old? A lot to ask of Kone imo...and many would have questioned that as equally.

Everybody is making this out to be very obvious when I don't think it is at all. 

I don't think anyone is saying it's obvious, only that Herdman had a tough call to make and he got it wrong.

And I think you got Piette.

[maccaliam]

6 minutes ago, canuckgbp said:

I would have started 

Kone- Eustaquio- Osorio 

If Eustaquio can only go 45, think I would go Kaye especially down 2-1. 
 

Point is you can’t put only two in the midfield and one without legs against an elite 3. Would out 3 get outclassed? Most likely. Outrun? Less likely. 

Haven’t had a chance to read much aside from a few above posts. I must admit I’m less disappointed by this match because Croatia were better than us. Belgium we should have got more from so that loss hurt more. 
The main disappointment from this match for me was the lack of a midfield 3 to match  up and frustrate/clog up the middle for Croatia’s midfield 3. I felt they kept pulling us around and creating overloads to cut through us. 

Edited November 27, 2022 by maccaliam

[canuckgbp]

5 minutes ago, mpg_29 said:

So with Eustaquio injured after 35 mins and Hutch not starting. Our core DM for 70+ mins in a WC game against Croatia is essentially a 20 yr old? A lot to ask of Kone imo...and many would have questioned that as equally.

Everybody is making this out to be very obvious when I don't think it is at all. 

Hutch would look different in a 3 as well. You could have Hutch as the 6 and Kone and Osorio as the 8s. Would Hutch have 45 in him if that were the case? I’m sure it would have looked better than the 72 he gave us. 
 

Piette is an option as the 6 as well. Less keen on him if we put down a goal. 
 

I find this obvious because you don’t go up against an elite 3 with one less player and especially when fitness and legs are questionable. Adding another body in the middle would have helped. 
 

Helped us win? Unlikely. Think we would have had a better second half though. 

Edited November 27, 2022 by canuckgbp

[Watchmen]

14 minutes ago, youllneverwalkalone said:

This is what I've been thinking about too. But winning nations league and the Gold Cup -or at least trying- would go along way to justifying inclusion in Copa and paving the way to understand how to win a match in 2026 -where we only get two shots to win the group in which we will likely have one superior side.

I think historically Mexico and the US can probably justify being included in the Copa already.  I think everyone would agree that this current Canada squad has certainly justified it as well.  

Canada should be pushing to win the next Gold Cup, because you're right there's a difference between just competing and understanding how to win.

Hard to say if there will be a "superior" side at the next WC.  Think the hosts will all be seeded, and at this stage it's hard to say how hard the next pools (ie the 2nd and 3rd pots) will be.

[mpg_29]

7 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

I don't think anyone is saying it's obvious, only that Herdman had a tough call to make and he got it wrong.

And I think you got Piette.

If Kone had been playing with the NT for more than like 6 months starting him over Hutch might have been an easier decision.

Edited November 27, 2022 by mpg_29

[jonovision]

Gross. No matter who complicated the history may be.

 

Edited November 27, 2022 by jonovision

[Bison44]

1 minute ago, mpg_29 said:

So with Eustaquio injured after 35 mins and Hutch not starting. Our core DM for 70+ mins in a WC game against Croatia is essentially a 20 yr old? A lot to ask of Kone imo...and many would have questioned that as equally.

Everybody is making this out to be very obvious when I don't think it is at all. 

Hutch looked gassed after Belgium, you pick a replacement then for game 2 eh. Herdman had months to think about this when it looked like Atiba wasnt going to play at all.  But him starting all 3 games was pie in the sky thinking.  Why do you think a lot of us were wondering why he wasnt reaching out to "someone" with more experience for exactly this kind of scenario.  

But regardless, what did we all think was going to happen? 2 weeks ago if you told me would would be 0-2, but scored in open play and didnt embarass ourselves..well I wouldnt have been dancing a jig, but thats pretty reasonable eh?  Then just hope to get some more goals and a result in the last game (which doesnt seem likely since they are on quite a roll).  Still very proud of the guys..and doubly so of the V's that made the trip and made the noise in the stadium.  One more game, make the most of it.  

[VinceA]

19 minutes ago, mpg_29 said:

So with Eustaquio injured after 35 mins and Hutch not starting. Our core DM for 70+ mins in a WC game against Croatia is essentially a 20 yr old? A lot to ask of Kone imo...and many would have questioned that as equally.

Everybody is making this out to be very obvious when I don't think it is at all. 

Ultimatey Herdman completely mismanaged his midfield personnel considering Eustaquio wasn't 100% fit and Atiuba is 39 and coming off an injury. This situation was avoidable to an extent by running a 3rd midfield or switching out one or the other for someone like Kaye or Piette, as much as that would draw the ire of people here.

[jonovision]

1 minute ago, VinceA said:

Ultimatey Herdman completely mismanaged his midfield personnel considering Eustaquio wasn't 100% fit and Atiuba is 39 and coming off an injury. This situation was avoidable to an extent by running a 3rd midfield or switching out one or the other for someone like Kaye or Piette, as much as that would draw the ire of people here.

If we had the same result (always likely, or worse) but had left Eustaquio and Hutchinson on the bench in favor of Piette and the forum's favorite whipping boy, Herdman would have been absolutely shit on by the people on here. And rightly so.

Edited November 27, 2022 by jonovision

[VinceA]

2 minutes ago, jonovision said:

If we had the same result (always likely, or worse) but had left Eustaquio and Hutchinson on the bench in favor of Piette and the forum's favorite whipping boy, Herdman would have been absolutely shit on by the people on here. And rightly so.

Feels a bit like it was a damned if you do damned if you don't. However with that knowledge at the very least he should have played 3 min the midfield.

[Floortom]

Even Herdman lover Herc Gomez is saying John got it all wrong with his selected formation and reliance on Atiba. 

[jonovision]

Just now, VinceA said:

Feels a bit like it was a damned if you do damned if you don't. However with that knowledge at the very least he should have played 3 min the midfield.

That much is fair, but I don't think we are likely to score a goal if we start out that way. At least not that goal.

[Watchmen]

13 minutes ago, jonovision said:

If we had the same result (always likely, or worse) but had left Eustaquio and Hutchinson on the bench in favor of Piette and the forum's favorite whipping boy, Herdman would have been absolutely shit on by the people on here. And rightly so.

I think if Herdman says "Eustaquio is fighting an injury and I didn't want to go with a 39 y/o on 3 days rest who's barely played club football this year", you'd have some people on here complaining (because there always are) but most people would have understood the logic.

[VinceA]

KJ with some great insight and doesn't sugarcoat it.

[dyslexic nam]

Yeah, last game David was ineffective because he was isolated up too all alone - and many people were complaining what he needed a strike partner.  So this time Herdman gets Larin on the field to help out up top, and people are wishing for an extra body in midfield.  I don’t  think we can have it both ways.