Match Thread: World Cup Group F - Matchday 2 - Croatia v Canada - November 27, 2022 - 7pm local time / 11am ET / 8am PT

[jonovision]

Just now, mpg_29 said:

So with Eustaquio and Atiba out...who would you put in the midfield? 

Because nobody is actually saying who they would put in.

Exactly. As badly as it went, I don't think a Kaye-Osorio-Piette midfield does any better.

[jhoops__]

7 minutes ago, canuckgbp said:

The brotherhood makes the subs? 
 

sorry lol

Fair criticism that he empowers the players just a bit too much…

[JAVIERF]

1 minute ago, mpg_29 said:

So with Eustaquio and Atiba out...who would you put in the midfield? 

Because nobody is actually saying who they would put in.

Fraser Koné and Osorio

[JAVIERF]

Maybe Kayé and Piette

[toontownman]

25 minutes ago, Floortom said:

If Herdman is being truthful here, it shows how a focus on loyalty and brotherhood can actually hinder the squad. Of course he could simply be saying this to support Atiba, but the fact that he wasn’t subbed out earlier tells me that Herdman believes it.

I mean it depends on the context! Next level for basically a 40 year old playing at the world cup against a top national. He was horribly exposed first half and had Eustaquio not gone off I'm sure he would have gone off earlier. Herdman definitely needed that leadership and experience on the pitch though.

[canuckgbp]

1 minute ago, mpg_29 said:

So with Eustaquio and Atiba out...who would you put in the midfield? 

Because nobody is actually saying who they would put in.

It’s not that they both started. It’s that they didn’t have a 3rd in the middle of the park. And when it was clear Hutch didn’t have the legs than he needed to be subbed off. 
 

I would have started Osorio. Put Kone on for Hutch at the half. 
 

Still think it would have been difficult.  Especially since Eustaquio was having some sort of injury issues. But by not packing the middle of the park we were asking for it. 

[Corazon]

1 minute ago, JAVIERF said:

Maybe Kayé and Piette

You just listed every other midfielder we have 😂 

Kone and or Osorio is the only real options I think.  I wouldn’t have dropped Eustaquio or Hutchinson, I would have just added another.

[mpg_29]

1 minute ago, JAVIERF said:

Fraser Koné and Osorio

I think Piette or MAK would come on before Fraser...but at least you answered.

[narduch]

11 minutes ago, canuckgbp said:

Should send alarm bells off. Not blasting his players in the media is fine but actions speak louder than words. 
 

And to get ahead of any posts, no, that doesn’t take away from everything Herdman has done for us. 

He got us here but there have been worrying signs all along the way.

How often did people comment we need a midfield even during qualifying?

Edited November 27, 2022 by narduch

[Allez les Rouges]

Herdman really needs a vacation if he thinks Atiba was good.

Maybe he gambled on surviving the end of the 1st half with a depleted Atiba, and then getting a good start of the 2nd half from him thanks to the break. But the way minutes 25-35 were going, that would have been a very poor gamble.

[jonovision]

1 minute ago, narduch said:

He got us hear but there have been worrying signs all along the way.

How often did people comment we need a midfield even during qualifying?

I think that has more to do with personnel than anything. Both Eustaquio and Hutchinson were unavailable for big chunks of qualifying. Herdman set up his team in qualifying in order to get his best players on the pitch as much as possible. And it worked, fairly comfortably.

[phil03]

26 minutes ago, jonovision said:

That's a gross comment from Dalic. Sore winner. 

24 minutes ago, JAVIERF said:

Strong words from Dalic,  moreless he called Herdman a coward

To me two wrongs don't make one right here. If Herdman intentionally avoided him then that was bad form but making a little scene to the press about it later on is even worse form from Dalic. When the Panaman coach didn't come Herdman didn't talk about it during the press conference and that's how it should be.

[TGAA_Star]

Kramaric with a parting shot asking who effed who...shots fired and he's not wrong

[Cheeta]

17 minutes ago, jonovision said:

Hutch was good in the first 15 minutes of each half. But just dreadful for the middle 30.

Legs were gone by the half.  Stacks injury was all that kept him in at that point.  To my mind.

[74 Whitecap]

20 hours ago, frmr said:

Are they though? Their front line doesn’t exactly strike fear in the heart…

Before the kickoff against Bermuda, I said a little prayer, that if Canada could just somehow battle their way through 3 rounds of qualifying into the World Cup, I wouldn't complain about anything that happened at the Cup itself.

Of course, once we qualified, I did set out a new list of hopes:

1) Score a goal

2) Don't get embarrassed

3) Get a result

4) (stretch goal) Make 2nd round

We haven't been embarrassed, we scored a fine goal against a very good team and not a consolation goal either), and we still have a chance to get a result, so honestly, I'm feeling pretty good at the moment.

I do have to agree with the majority on the board that, if not at the start of the game, then after the goal, we needed to adjust to a more defensive posture. You will never accomplish anything in soccer if you can't shut a game down (or force the other team to do something special) when you are up by a goal, so we need to improve in this area. You don't have to have world beating talent to do this, you just need good shape and discipline, the North African teams are the example to look to in this respect, and I guess Morocco will give us a lesson next game as they play for 0-0.

Otherwise, this always shaped up as a matchup that played to all of our weaknesses and so it proved, doubly so when Eustaquio went down. There was some doubt way up-thread that Croatia was more dangerous than the U.S. in the final third, but now we see what level 'world class' really is in that department.

Still, I'm fantastically happy that we put one in the back of the net, and for the experience we gained, and for the guys who got a chance to play in the World Cup before retiring, especially Atiba who has given so much over the years. We just need to continue to improve the team over the next cycle, it may not be possible to match the amount of improvement in this cycle, but our top guys are young enough that we can keep improving towards 2026 as new faces mature and step up. The other key to advancing in a future cup, maybe less important for 2026, but in general for the future, is the get that FIFA ranking higher so we are not in Pot 4 or whatever the future equivalent of pot 4 is. If we had a group like the U.S. or Mexico, it is just that much easier to battle your way through.

Super proud of the whole team, hope they can pick themselves up and there's enough bodies still healthy to go out and get a result vs. Morocco.

 

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

4 minutes ago, jonovision said:

I think that has more to do with personnel than anything. Both Eustaquio and Hutchinson were unavailable for big chunks of qualifying. Herdman set up his team in qualifying in order to get his best players on the pitch as much as possible. And it worked, fairly comfortably.

Eustaquio played big  minutes except for 2-3 games.  I remember because I was begging someone at club or country to give him rest.

[canuckgbp]

 

[Free kick]

2 hours ago, king1010 said:

someone ban this guy for the rest of the tournament

Why?  What he said was correct.  In the end we were done in by our inexperience.   Its not how we played,  we played very well in these two games.  But our opponents capitalized on their chances and did what they had to do.  The players we have that are the most experienced in a canada jersey,  didnt have “Big game” experince and it showed.  Our younger players played well but the vets looked vulnerable and gassed. 

Edited November 27, 2022 by Free kick

[VinceA]

Did Davies at any point in the two games beat a man out wide and deliver a nice cross acorss the face of goal? Isn't that his whole game?

Too many times he was dirbbling inside and then getting dispossesed.

[football_world]

7 minutes ago, VinceA said:

Did Davies at any point in the two games beat a man out wide and deliver a nice cross acorss the face of goal? Isn't that his whole game?

Too many times he was dirbbling inside and then getting dispossesed.

I think this was his problem at Bayern Munich as well when he got there.  Alphonso Davies struggled in midfield at Bayern Munich, until Bayern Munich moved him to left back.  It's left back where Alphonso Davies found his stride, becoming a world class player at left back.  As an attacking midfielder, Alphonso Davies is a beast against CONCACAF and MLS defenders, but he struggles against top European level defenders. 

I guess today was a repeat of his problems at Bayern Munich when he plays midfield.

Edited November 27, 2022 by football_world

[The Beaver 2.0]

Like many of you, when I saw the starting lineup this morning, I was surprised to see Hutch's name. Hutch didn't have a bad game so much as he could not physically do what we needed him to do. Croatia was killing us on the left side all game, especially the first half, and Hutch just did not have the legs to cover in behind Tajon and in front of Alistair. I don't blame Hutch at all.  Herdman needs to take the blame for this. I'd rather have had Kone in for Hutch, or even MAK.  Losing Staq was a massive blow. Herdman knew we were lining up against one of the best midfields in the world, and he got his tactics and selection wrong. 

I felt Kone was getting better and better with every touch of the ball. For me, he's our next revelation, our next star. I am excited to see how he grows over the next year or two. 

This is obvious, I know, but at some point Herdman will hit his ceiling and we'll need a new manager. I've seen a few things this tournament that is a bit worrying, but if he can have the humility to accept responsibility for his mistakes and acknowledge his limitations, then he'll grow and continue to be of value to the program. I still feel he is tactically naive. He's grown a ton in that area, and I suspect he's got some good folks around him, but he's still a fair distance behind top international managers.  Will he be the gaffer come 2026? Yeah, nobody is going to fire him know, and I am by no means calling for his head, but I feel we've the ability and talent to be a top 20 team, but we're going to need the right manager to get (and stay) there.  Herdman might be our Moses: he'll get us out of Egypt, across a sea, over the dessert, but he himself won't get to see the Promised Land in person.  Maybe.  It happens. Our ascent to the higher echelons of world football is going to take many, many years.  

Still, damned proud of our guys. Great overall play on the goal, great game against Belgium, some good moments against a strong Croatian side, and a ton of learning for a bunch of guys who will form the core of this team over the next 4 to 8 years!! 

[Gian-Luca]

Time for post mortem later. For now, I am just replaying the goal in my head on a permanent loop given that I had been dreaming of seeing Canada score in a World Cup for 40 years 

[The Beaver 2.0]

Just now, Gian-Luca said:

Time for post mortem later. For now, I am just replaying the goal in my head on a permanent loop given that I had been dreaming of seeing Canada score in a World Cup for 40 years 

And it was a fantastic goal from a fantastic bit of football, too! 

[mpg_29]

30 minutes ago, canuckgbp said:

It’s not that they both started. It’s that they didn’t have a 3rd in the middle of the park. And when it was clear Hutch didn’t have the legs than he needed to be subbed off. 
 

I would have started Osorio. Put Kone on for Hutch at the half. 
 

Still think it would have been difficult.  Especially since Eustaquio was having some sort of injury issues. But by not packing the middle of the park we were asking for it. 

Still no one is actually answering the question..... Piette or MAK?

 

[Floortom]

3 minutes ago, mpg_29 said:

Still no one is actually answering the question..... Piette or MAK?

 

Given the fact that we were pushing for another goal to tie I would have put in MAK as he sometimes shows good ability to split the lines and progress the ball. Either one would have been preferable over Atiba though