Canada vs Japan - Thursday, November 17th - 8:40am EST / 5:40am Pacific - Al Maktoum Stadium, Dubai, The United Arab Emirates

[SthMelbRed]

4 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

I have a well known VPN and it doesn’t work with TSN often.  It’s something those of us going to Qatar will face if we look for coverage.

TSN is bullshit. They geoblock everything on their website, whether it's subject to territorial rights, or not. Sportsnet only geoblocks stuff that's subject to territorial rights, so I can watch a lot of their features online.

[jonovision]

58 minutes ago, SthMelbRed said:

As Panenka's go, it was hardly worthy of a place in the Louvre, was it?

All panenkas, and every variation of stutter-step penalty, are dishonorable. But if it's your team and you care about anything other than whether it goes in or not, your brain is diseased (not yours, @SthMelbRed, but those who seem almost personally affronted by Cavallini's attempt).

Edited November 18, 2022 by jonovision

[canadasoccer20]

Thoughts:

Hoilett needs to start... always liked him and brings an element of high level skill we don't really have a ton of.

David needs to take that penalty. I like Cav got a chance to take it because he is a savvy vet, but this is the world cup and we should be prepare for everything, and David might need to take a penalty for us. Save a Cav penalty for a game in Nations League. 

Buchanen going to have a coming out party. His speed against older teams like Belgium and Croatia is gonna be a problem for them. Morocco should be a test for him against Mazraoui, but I think he is ready.

Getting 3 points leading into the big dance is huge.  Bring that winning mentality to Qatar. 

[SoccMan]

4 hours ago, Kadenge said:

Miller seems like a great team guy and he's going to get better but his lack of pace and ability to deal with aerial passes is going to be an issue. I can think of 3 goals where those shortcomings have been evident. The Panama goal at home, the Panama goal away and the goal today which was similar to the away Panama goal in terms of the pass delivery. He's also got to watch going into tackles. He gave up the free kick vs Uruguay which resulted in a goal and was close to  another sliding tackle in the first half. Perhaps he needs to calm down a bit and play more conservatively. If it was Henry out there in Kamal's place... you know the rest

 

 

 

 

 

 

Difference is Kamal has actually stuck with an MLS team and was one of Montreal’s better defenders,  where Henry has been let go from what 3 different MLS teams because unfortunately he was not that good end of story . I’ll take Kamal over Henry any day of the week . Kamal may also be prone to mistakes but feel a lot more comfortable with him out there than Henry .

[beachesl]

1 hour ago, jonovision said:

All panenkas, and every variation of stutter-step penalty, are dishonorable. But if it's your team and you care about anything other than whether it goes in or not, your brain is diseased (not yours, @SthMelbRed, but those who seem almost personally affronted by Cavallini's attempt).

Cmon, it was a bad attempt, not even a good paneka,it was a brain freeze that the others let him take it.We were very Canadian with the Japanese and within our own team,probably because it was a friendly. We just got lucky that theJapenese goalkeeper screwd up. Hopefully, he will not be allowed to take penalties in Qatar, unless he is the 11th taker in>OT..

[Kent]

1 hour ago, jonovision said:

All panenkas, and every variation of stutter-step penalty, are dishonorable. But if it's your team and you care about anything other than whether it goes in or not, your brain is diseased (not yours, @SthMelbRed, but those who seem almost personally affronted by Cavallini's attempt).

Why are they dishonourable? Where is the rule that says goals in the middle of the goal are not allowed? Back when I was trusted by my teammates to take penalties, I liked to dip my shoulder to make it look like I was shooting left, but then turn my ankle out wide so I would actually shoot right. It usually got the keeper moving the wrong way. I suppose that is dishonourable as well?

1 hour ago, canadasoccer20 said:

David needs to take that penalty. I like Cav got a chance to take it because he is a savvy vet, but this is the world cup and we should be prepare for everything, and David might need to take a penalty for us.

No, this was a friendly. I am fine with Cavalini taking the penalty. One less video for our rivals to see how David takes penalties, decipher if he has a tell for which way he is going. Also, if we really do shock the world and get to the knockout rounds and wind up in a shoot out, there is a decent chance Cavalini would be taking one of the 5 penalties (I am presuming there is a good chance he subs in during the 120 minutes). With his love of the panenka it might be tough for a keeper to not stay in the middle in case he does it again. That might make putting it in the side of the net a relatively easy job.

[Bison44]

I remember playing FIFA 12 a few years back now and I couldnt figure out penalties so I just let the player hammer it right down the pipe...every time.  

[jonovision]

11 minutes ago, Kent said:

Why are they dishonourable? Where is the rule that says goals in the middle of the goal are not allowed? Back when I was trusted by my teammates to take penalties, I liked to dip my shoulder to make it look like I was shooting left, but then turn my ankle out wide so I would actually shoot right. It usually got the keeper moving the wrong way. I suppose that is dishonourable as well?

I think you know, and so does everybody else, that my comment was at least 50% tongue in cheek. But the penalty is a contest already so heavily weighted in favour of the shooter that any additional deception seems needless (and in the case of many stutter-steps, is already sanctioned by a rule that is interpreted too liberally). Not to mention that these penalties, successful or not, are so aesthetically distasteful. Just rip it in the corner.

Edited November 18, 2022 by jonovision

[red card]

 

[top cheese]

2 hours ago, red card said:

 

I seen the numbers at half and was astonished they were excellent. They tried to play with some fluidity and there pressing structure was excellent. 

I think they are going to cause belguim alot of problems on the counter attack with there old slow CBs l

[TGAA_Star]

If Japan had their bigger guns like Tomiyasu playing, then it would have made for an even more competitive game. But nevertheless Canada still got the job done beating Japan which is all you can ask for. But I would say in this game, Canada looked better here than they did against Bahrain or even Uruguay for that matter. Canada now has to look towards Belgium this Wednesday in Qatar. 2 PM ET start time/game time here in Canada on an afternoon fixture with Canada's first World Cup game in 36 years since 1986, I'm definitely excited. But considering Belgium are an aging team and for their golden generation this is pretty much their last hoorah in a sense so they will have a lot to prove. But then again so do Canada because everyone expects Canada to be the underdog or the whipping boys of this group. LET'S GO PROVE THE WORLD WRONG!!!

[Shway]

Expected goals stats….

I feel like the ones who love these stats, have never played the game. 

You can’t play moneyball with soccer. 

[TGAA_Star]

Even though Belgium still have an aging backline, they still have one of the best goalkeepers in the world in Courtois and they still have Hazard and De Bruyne, the best all around creative midfielder in the world

[GasPed]

Ok, finally watched the game, and my impression is like everyone else's - we played very well even if it was against Japan's B team.  One thing I was fascinated with was Alistair Johnston's battle on the right against Kubo in the 1st half and Laryea's battle on the left against Doan in the 2nd - these two Japanese are quality players from top leagues - Kubo with Real Sociedad, Doan with Freiburg (both these teams are at the top of their Europa League Groups).  Our guys more than held their own against them - in fact they won more than they lost, and that really bodes well for our ability to handle the wingers in our Group.  I don't think we'll find any wingers in Group F who are better than these two - more physical, yes, but better, no.  Imho.

Edited November 18, 2022 by GasPed

[Unnamed Trialist]

Imo most criticizing Cava for the Panenka are mistaken. The team thought it was hilarious, David was making "crazy" signals. I bet they were still riding the high and laughing about it hours after. It gave us a W while relaxing the group and bonding. It sent a message about character. Gave no hints to any rival. Then the press loved it, in Spain, Costa Rica too, they all thought it was ballsy 

Of course you don't do that in an official match, and Cava doesn't take it. But here it was amazing.

[Unnamed Trialist]

Double post...

Edited November 18, 2022 by Unnamed Trialist

[Kadenge]

10 hours ago, SoccMan said:

Difference is Kamal has actually stuck with an MLS team and was one of Montreal’s better defenders,  where Henry has been let go from what 3 different MLS teams because unfortunately he was not that good end of story . I’ll take Kamal over Henry any day of the week . Kamal may also be prone to mistakes but feel a lot more comfortable with him out there than Henry .

Don't think I said Henry should start instead of Miller, rather pointing to inconsistencies as to how we judge players and their performances for the CMNT.  Henry has been taking flak for a number of years when he was playing club footie and played well during WCQ and the 2021 GC.  There are other players who have played very little club footie this season. Look I hope Miller has a massive WC. He's a great team player and I hope he continues to get better. Just pointing out some shortcomings that he needs to shore up as a CB.

[costarg]

1 hour ago, Kadenge said:

Don't think I said Henry should start instead of Miller, rather pointing to inconsistencies as to how we judge players and their performances for the CMNT.  Henry has been taking flak for a number of years when he was playing club footie and played well during WCQ and the 2021 GC.  There are other players who have played very little club footie this season. Look I hope Miller has a massive WC. He's a great team player and I hope he continues to get better. Just pointing out some shortcomings that he needs to shore up as a CB.

The thing about Henry is his game is solely based on his crunching tackles (which generate fouls, cards and penalties), its always on the limit.  Take that away and you don't have a very balanced or complete player. 

As for Miller, sure he's got his shortcomings, but he's also got some excellent other qualities that make him stand out.  He's just more balanced and trustworthy, so we forgive the little glitches more than we do with Henry.

[RS]

8 hours ago, Shway said:

Expected goals stats….

I feel like the ones who love these stats, have never played the game. 

You can’t play moneyball with soccer. 

Why is it the people who dislike advanced stats always seem to go to the "you must have never played the game" line towards those who see value in them?

Advanced stats are just another tool to help analyze the game. Nothing more, nothing less. They've become so mainstream now that every big professional team and league on the planet have employed analytics departments, but I'm sure no one in any of those places have played the game either.

 

[kohanz]

8 hours ago, Shway said:

Expected goals stats….

I feel like the ones who love these stats, have never played the game. 

You can’t play moneyball with soccer. 

This has literally been said about every sport where analytics has grown to play a key role.

Yes, with smaller sample sizes (e.g. a single match), these stats can be more noise than signal. Just like in basketball, some people refer to the +/- of an individual player in a single game: yes, it means something, but drawing significant conclusions from it is foolish. However, over a longer period of time, they provide insights. For example evaluating a keeper's performance vs. the xG they faced over a number of matches or evaluating the quality of chances that a team generates. I think to write these metrics off completely is at your own risk, especially if you're in the business of the sport.

[jonovision]

12 minutes ago, costarg said:

The thing about Henry is his game is solely based on his crunching tackles (which generate fouls, cards and penalties), its always on the limit.  Take that away and you don't have a very balanced or complete player. 

As for Miller, sure he's got his shortcomings, but he's also got some excellent other qualities that make him stand out.  He's just more balanced and trustworthy, so we forgive the little glitches more than we do with Henry.

Miller has never been counted upon for Canada to be the "cool head" that organizes the defense and takes on responsibility. He has done well often with Vitoria, but sometimes also Henry, in that role. It's clear to see that Henry has a better footballing brain. Making physical challenges isn't always naive, and the fact that he's never been in real card trouble for Canada suggests that Doneil knows what he's doing.

The problem with Doneil is he hasn't been healthy in years.

[jonovision]

5 minutes ago, RS said:

Why is it the people who dislike advanced stats always seem to go to the "you must have never played the game" line towards those who see value in them?

Advanced stats are just another tool to help analyze the game. Nothing more, nothing less. They've become so mainstream now that every big professional team and league on the planet have employed analytics departments, but I'm sure no one in any of those places have played the game either.

 

Players are probably the last people who need to understand or care about xG and other advanced stats, but if the people telling them what to do aren't paying attention to these stats they're being negligent.

[RS]

3 minutes ago, jonovision said:

Players are probably the last people who need to understand or care about xG and other advanced stats, but if the people telling them what to do aren't paying attention to these stats they're being negligent.

I see a ton of hostility towards advanced stats on Hockey twitter, where machismo from meatheads is obviously more prevalent than within soccer circles (at least in North America), but I've noticed the same attitude seeping in in soccer and it baffles me.

More information is good.

[El Diego]

11 minutes ago, kohanz said:

This has literally been said about every sport where analytics has grown to play a key role.

Yes, with smaller sample sizes (e.g. a single match), these stats can be more noise than signal. Just like in basketball, some people refer to the +/- of an individual player in a single game: yes, it means something, but drawing significant conclusions from it is foolish. However, over a longer period of time, they provide insights. For example evaluating a keeper's performance vs. the xG they faced over a number of matches or evaluating the quality of chances that a team generates. I think to write these metrics off completely is at your own risk, especially if you're in the business of the sport.

At the risk of derailing another thread with basketball talk...

It's hilarious to me that the entire basketball meta shifted in recent times because people basically realized "Wait a second, 3 points is more than 2!" and just started jacking three balls all the time. There was actually a spike in the 90s in 3 point attempts that steadily increased, then a plateau till about 2012, then another jump started happening. 3 point attempts per game each year:

93-94: 9.9

11-12: 18.4

21-22: 35.2

[BearcatSA]

Has anybody here had a chance to read The Eye Test: a Case for Human Creativity in the Age of Analytics by Chris Jones?