Match Thread: CONCACAF U-20 - Round of 16 - Canada v Guatemala - June 26, 2022 - 4pm ET/1pm PT

[solsous]

That was very disappointing.  They lacked ideas and dynamic players.

[Soccerpro2]

4 minutes ago, Floortom said:

Meh…I had low expectations coming into this tourney and at no point did I see anything on the pitch that made me believe otherwise. Mexico would have probably dog-walked us in the semis anyways 

This ^

We sucked all tournament and would have gotten hammered by Mexico. For people to be emotional about this performance is surprising to me.

[VinceA]

lol

[gator]

Smith obviously was the class of our team, as a Forge fan I liked Poke's steady play and a horrendous pk will not change my mind on that, he shouldn't have been picked, there were a couple of others that looked ok here and there but not consistently! I really wanted that one more match, a shot at Mexico but the lads somehow found a way to fuck that up!

[Sal333]

13 minutes ago, Dominic94 said:

Biello can’t continue with the program

The few who remember him as the manager of the Impact will know Biello is not manager material. He can probably assist like he does for the NT but I don't rate him as a head honcho.    

[VinceA]

Well time for all of the other CONCACAF twitter accounts to quote tweet recently created CAN accounts who keep setting us up with roasts with all their arrogant boasting about our program.

 

[P-O]

That's what happens when you have no $$$ funding for the U20 program.

 

It isn't an hockey tournament where you roll lines and play. You need a structure, automatics and players who understand their roles.

We sucked and hopefully it will help us in the long run.

[Vasi]

I agree with most of thr posts in here. We had no business competing for a top 4 spot. We sucked. But that is nothing new. We still have  golden senior generation. Looks like we found our new Buchanan in Smith. So that's a win. 

However, money needs to start coming in for this program to improve and the pipeline to become steady.

The senior team has leveled up much quicker then expected compared to the other parts of the football structure. We will have to wait for everything else to catch up.

[Dominic94]

5 minutes ago, Vasi said:

I agree with most of thr posts in here. We had no business competing for a top 4 spot. We sucked. But that is nothing new. We still have  golden senior generation. Looks like we found our new Buchanan in Smith. So that's a win. 

However, money needs to start coming in for this program to improve and the pipeline to become steady.

The senior team has leveled up much quicker then expected compared to the other parts of the football structure. We will have to wait for everything else to catch up.

Sad but true, I do think this team has some good players and potential prospects, but man they were a no show.

[SpursFlu]

I thought our full backs and wide players were dreadful. Terrible decision making. I dont know for sure but I feel like our problem was with the roster selection 

[gator]

3 and a half hours vs Cuba and Guatemala without a goal from open play says it all!

[DeRo_Is_King]

What else is there to say about this group and overall performance. Our youth system is a problem that needs to be addressed, but I'm thankful the tournament is over. 

[Jack1997]

Our team is miles better than gutemala loses like these are unacceptable and I honestly don’t think most of it is on the players. Beillo shouldn’t be involved in Canada soccer at all and our amount of camps and practice together is awful. Canada soccer has to realize the youth teams are how we’re gonna stay good and we’re not gonna have guys like Davies and David every few years, if our youth systems are awful, convincing dual nats is gonna be damn hard if we can’t be Cuba and guatamala, you think a guy like Justin smith left that camp enjoying his time and being more convinced about committing? Most likely not. 
Biello out.

fund the youth. 

[Kadenge]

Other than the starting lineup for the Cuba game, it's a bit harsh to blame the coach/staff. Is it their fault that Wright missed the PK in reg time? Is it their fault that most of our forwards had an awful first touch or could not accurately pass the ball with players in the open? I could go on, but our talent on the field did not match up. More camps and prep games would help but other than set pieces, I'm not sure it would make this group qualify top 4. Other than the talent level, there seemed to be a lack of intensity and work rate  from many of the players on the squad. Smith was a man among boys and displayed the attributes  we needed from many others. Hard to believe he is still U20. I'm not going to crap on our development system because of this tournament but it is a concern when teams like Cuba/Guat etc are putting out players that appear to be technically & tactically superior to ours

[Free kick]

1 hour ago, Kadenge said:

Other than the starting lineup for the Cuba game, it's a bit harsh to blame the coach/staff. Is it their fault that Wright missed the PK in reg time? Is it their fault that most of our forwards had an awful first touch or could not accurately pass the ball with players in the open? I could go on, but our talent on the field did not match up. More camps and prep games would help but other than set pieces, I'm not sure it would make this group qualify top 4. Other than the talent level, there seemed to be a lack of intensity and work rate  from many of the players on the squad. Smith was a man among boys and displayed the attributes  we needed from many others. Hard to believe he is still U20. I'm not going to crap on our development system because of this tournament but it is a concern when teams like Cuba/Guat etc are putting out players that appear to be technically & tactically superior to ours

Thank you!  it really is an automatic reflex with some people here.  Any time we lose,   Its the coaches' fault.   Nobody looks at the talent.   In any team sport, a coach cant win without talent.  There was no talent on this team and this should have been obvious from the very first game.  It became obvious to me in the first 20 minutes of the first game.    The first touches are poor,  the passing was poor.... etc.  the individual skills were lacking.   No amount of camps, preparation etc can make up for that.    

 

PS.:  there certainly were times in the past whereby you could have pointed the finger at coaches 

Edited June 27, 2022 by Free kick

[Free kick]

Deleted

Edited June 27, 2022 by Free kick

[Matro25]

1 hour ago, Jack1997 said:

Our team is miles better than gutemala loses like these are unacceptable and I honestly don’t think most of it is on the players. Beillo shouldn’t be involved in Canada soccer at all and our amount of camps and practice together is awful. Canada soccer has to realize the youth teams are how we’re gonna stay good and we’re not gonna have guys like Davies and David every few years, if our youth systems are awful, convincing dual nats is gonna be damn hard if we can’t be Cuba and guatamala, you think a guy like Justin smith left that camp enjoying his time and being more convinced about committing? Most likely not. 
Biello out.

fund the youth. 

If we're being honest here I think the only reason Justin Smith committed to the U20s was to showcase his ability and possibly get picked up for Qatar. That and he's not good enough for France, which is no knock on him we're talking about the World Cup Champions. 

He certainly could have used this time to prepare for OGC Nice's preseason. Their first game is next Saturday.

Edited June 27, 2022 by Matro25

[Cheeta]

3 hours ago, gator said:

3 and a half hours vs Cuba and Guatemala without a goal from open play says it all!

You win a cookie.

[Vasi]

3 hours ago, Dominic94 said:

Sad but true, I do think this team has some good players and potential prospects, but man they were a no show.

I very much agree. I forgot to mention the talent level on this team. You can argue that we had a top 3 team but with no camps and investment at this level the talent can't shine through. I feel that's the main reason why they were  no show. 

Also, after watching the TFC game last night i wish some of those kids were released to the nat team. We would have played like a more cohesive team. 

At the end of the day there needs to be more money pumped in and time has to pass, and hope that after the WC herdman takes more of an active role with the juniors. 

[Unnamed Trialist]

Herdman is also ultimately responsible for our youth teams. Isn't he? 

And not qualifying for worlds or Olympics hurts the NT development badly going forward. 

Seems the philosophy is to let them develop outside our systems when young, then seduce them into joining the brotherhood. 

Considering we just threw away a chance to even see some 1st team stars at an Olympics, since they're young enough, it's a bit like robbing them of parts of their football legacy. 

[narduch]

13 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Herdman is also ultimately responsible for our youth teams. Isn't he? 

And not qualifying for worlds or Olympics hurts the NT development badly going forward. 

Seems the philosophy is to let them develop outside our systems when young, then seduce them into joining the brotherhood. 

Considering we just threw away a chance to even see some 1st team stars at an Olympics, since they're young enough, it's a bit like robbing them of parts of their football legacy. 

Don't you know you aren't allowed to criticize Herdman on this site?

[Joe MacCarthy]

I don't know how much of a hand Herdman had with this group.  I think this is the first group I've ever seen where I didn't draw any hope for the future, they just didn't seem to have the Herdsman's imprint.  I gave a theory about singing the national anthem long ago and why I (and Herdman) think it is important.  From what I saw in that department the only guy who would have fit in Herdman's hendectet was Wright and strangely enough in the game I saw he seemed to be the only one with any spirit.  Some of them seemed more concerned with mugging for the cameras.

I know some here think highly of Smith and where he plays, he may have been a cut above the rest but I don't know if that is saying much.  I usually look for the cloud with the silver lining (you get like that when following the CMNT for 50 years) but what was it the kids used to say.  Meh.  Someone was asking are we a soccer nation in another thread, frankly until we start beating these Concacaf teams, I say no.

[InglewoodJack]

Is there that much continuity between youth team performance and the senior team? IE does a successful U20 team translate to senior success, because to me it seems like, yes, this team sucked and needs changes, but if we get guys like Justin Smith, Coimbra, etc playing in our programs, it doesn’t matter if our team is an abomination because all we need is like 3-5 prospects from this batch to hit for this generation to be successful for Canada. I don’t think there are more than a handful of 2026 roster spots for the current U20s, and similar to every country, like 75% of this team will end up in the CPL, USports or retired by 2026. 
 

i think the most important take away from this tournament is that you have a couple guys who showed they’re a lot better than the rest of the team, some of these guys are training with strong European academies, a couple of our CPL guys look promising enough to have another stop elsewhere in their future (Lowell Wright), so there’s some good prospects in the talent pool. Between who we have playing on the senior team already, a couple older players who are poised to get senior call ups in the next year or two, a couple of the other players who didn’t make it to this tournament, there’s probably low single digits roster spots available for our current U20s. I’m much more interested in say, Justin Smith’s performance than I am by the fact we lost to Cuba or got eliminated early in some tournament.

[Footyeh]

1 hour ago, InglewoodJack said:

Is there that much continuity between youth team performance and the senior team? IE does a successful U20 team translate to senior success, because to me it seems like, yes, this team sucked and needs changes, but if we get guys like Justin Smith, Coimbra, etc playing in our programs, it doesn’t matter if our team is an abomination because all we need is like 3-5 prospects from this batch to hit for this generation to be successful for Canada. I don’t think there are more than a handful of 2026 roster spots for the current U20s, and similar to every country, like 75% of this team will end up in the CPL, USports or retired by 2026. 
 

It's a massive failure full stop.  Qualifying for the U20 WC or Olympics gives these boys a platform to be seen by clubs that will take their careers to the next level and will ultimately help Canada as a country.  The exposure is unmatched.  IE Lowell Wright scoring a goal in the U20 WC has more weight then 10 in the CPL because that level is validated across top clubs/scouts.  Working in the US, I see how much the US U15's/U17's/U20's benefit from going to international competitions and the proof is in the number of players being signed to European clubs.

[El Hombre]

4 hours ago, Joe MacCarthy said:

I think this is the first group I've ever seen where I didn't draw any hope for the future...

I'm the opposite on this.  I think there are a few individuals that could be real players in the future.  For me, I was happiest with Matteo Campagna.  He was the only one that lived up to the hype.  In addition to him though, I think Wright might have a future.  I think Habibullah could be a good impact player off the bench.  And I'm really interested in watching where Pellegrino's and Coimbra's careers go.  

What hurts is the players that didn't live up to the hype.  Mbongue, Zouhir, Costa, Assi, Abatneh all underperformed in terms of the expectations coming in, imo.  I probably bought in to the hype machine too much there.

However, when you compare this to other teams in this tournament, I'm not so doom and gloom.  The worst U20 team I saw was the 2011 edition and that had both Osorio and Cavallini on it.  2013 had similar results (including a loss to Cuba) and that team only really had Piette on it.  I think 2015 could easily be classified as a failure with losses to Mexico, El Salvador, Cuba (AGAIN!), and Honduras and that team had both Adekugbe and Larin on it.  The 2017 team had a lot of hype having tied England and getting actual prep time but they too shit the bed.  Even so, that team had Miller and Millar and St. Clair.

So, regardless of results, there are usually one or two legitimate players that come out of each team.  I really think Campagna's got a future, especially in that position.  Depending on where Wright goes and develops, he too might turn into something special.  I'm hopeful for Pellegrino and haven't given up on Costa.  I'm a glass half-full kinda guy, but even so I don't think the results are indicative of some of the individual quality on the team.