Match Thread: CONCACAF U-20 - Group Stage - Canada v Cuba - June 18, 2022 - 8:30pm ET/5:30pm PT

[Colliedor]

17 minutes ago, SpecialK said:

No - Georgi Atanasov 

Daniel Jebbison

Cruz Hastings

Lucas Dias

Luca Koleosho

Jules-Anthony Vilsaint

Jeronimo Sabbatasso

Daniel Glykis

Zuhier Salih

and others missing but remember the CPL and CSB are growing the game ! So we can lose to Cuba with no goalie 🤣😂🤣🤬🤬

I don't get it,  if the other  players according to you guys are trash, why would that list be magically better?

[SpecialK]

1 hour ago, Colliedor said:

I don't get it,  if the other  players according to you guys are trash, why would that list be magically better?

Well Jebbison is playing in the Championship and Dias is playing for one of biggest clubs in Portugal and has already played vs U23 players and did very well. Luca Koleosho is playing for a LaLiga team and even got a called for the senior team at the age of 17. Jules-Anthony Vilsaint is playing for Belgium first division U21 team. Cruz Hastings - son of Canada great Richard Hastings, Georgi Atanasov is playing 1st division in Bulgaria at the age of 19. Also losing to Cuba with no goalie is not just bad, it’s embarrassing. Why can’t Canada get real with our youth teams. I like some players that were picked but we are missing some firepower here. Clearly CPL players don’t belong.

[Buchta]

 Atanasov might have declined playing for Canada, so maybe he was never really an option.

[Obinna]

3 hours ago, SpecialK said:

Well Jebbison is playing in the Championship and Dias is playing for one of biggest clubs in Portugal and has already played vs U23 players and did very well. Luca Koleosho is playing for a LaLiga team and even got a called for the senior team at the age of 17. Jules-Anthony Vilsaint is playing for Belgium first division U21 team. Cruz Hastings - son of Canada great Richard Hastings, Georgi Atanasov is playing 1st division in Bulgaria at the age of 19. Also losing to Cuba with no goalie is not just bad, it’s embarrassing. Why can’t Canada get real with our youth teams. I like some players that were picked but we are missing some firepower here. Clearly CPL players don’t belong.

Argeed on the first 3 players because I am somewhat familar with all 3.

Dias is a player that much is certain. He's going to feature with Sporting's first team at some point. It's just a matter of when and how much involvement. Koleosho should need no further explaination considering he was brought into the Canada selection and just debuted for Espanyol's 1st team at 17. Jebbison meanwhile is a known quantity and his resume speaks for itself at this age. I would think he'd easily be selected for any of the concacaf U-20 teams, possibly with an argument he'd start for any of them as well. I say that confidently without knowing the players on the other sides.

I do know the states have MLS regulars, which is impressive. Guys like Cado are already established in Major League Soccer. And maybe this is why we won't compete relative to them like at the senior level. Our guys are further behind in their development, evidenced by the fact many are still with MLS reserve sides. Browsing though the USA roster, sure I noticed a few USL championship guys, but that's still a higher level than MLS reserve sides in some respects.

Anyways, back to Jebbison, Dias and Koleosho. Each of those guys would have enhanced our changes substantially, but none of them are there. Oh well. It remains to be seeing how many of them will be ours in the end, anyways. Hard to get bent out of shape about it. At least all 3 you'd think would naturally fall to Canada with time, but you know how these things go. There's always surprises. 

Edited June 19, 2022 by Obinna

[Aird25]

6 hours ago, SpecialK said:

Hey but a bunch of CanPL players got to play and lose vs Cuba with no goalie. 🤣🤣🤣🤣

Such an odd take 

[Unnamed Trialist]

83 posts on players and 3 on the coaching. 

From the opening minute you could see coaching problems, the kick off in fact was just a random boot upfield. I only watched 30 min as it was late here and I was tired. We had possession in our own half, did not risk going forward but were not positioned in a way to take advantage of our on-paper superiority.

Still, I did not see a well-coached team, and in fact have not seen well-coached teams for our youth for a long time. Women as well. 

We have a tendency to want to put "company men (women)" into those coaching slots, taking care of the youth, former players who are somewhat competent. But they seem to be unwilling to demand a lot, do not have great tactical acumen, and are not leading from the bench either. I also do not get the sense there is any consequence for failure. The CSA may just have to look for outside coaching, however much the former MNT players who think they are god's gift may complain. Our senior NTs are coached by non-Canadians.

Also agree that it seemed Smith was the best player out there, Poku is an interesting player as well. Not much more for me.

[CanadaFan123]

5 hours ago, SpecialK said:

Well Jebbison is playing in the Championship and Dias is playing for one of biggest clubs in Portugal and has already played vs U23 players and did very well. Luca Koleosho is playing for a LaLiga team and even got a called for the senior team at the age of 17. Jules-Anthony Vilsaint is playing for Belgium first division U21 team. Cruz Hastings - son of Canada great Richard Hastings, Georgi Atanasov is playing 1st division in Bulgaria at the age of 19. Also losing to Cuba with no goalie is not just bad, it’s embarrassing. Why can’t Canada get real with our youth teams. I like some players that were picked but we are missing some firepower here. Clearly CPL players don’t belong.

This is an odd take considering 2 of our better players last night were CPL players. It’s a coaching and preparation problem. Until we figure that out we’re going to continue looking like hot garbage at youth tournaments. St. Kitts had more prep than us - think about that and how bonkers that is. 
 

Our only hope is that we can get back to the drawing board, acknowledge this field is going to be a cow patch all tournament and come out with a viable strategy. We should be playing garbage football out here ... it’ll even make up (somewhat) for our lack of preparation.

I can’t believe we didn’t test that field player in net even once. Any Sunday league men’s team would have found a way to test that keeper ... launch the ball into the box from all angles and pounce on an inevitable mistake.

[DeRo_Is_King]

7 hours ago, gator said:

Or this past Monday! 😀

I agree, but at least the senior team had a valid excuse with that waterlogged pitch. Also, they have had an amazing few years of form that included WC qualification.

[DeRo_Is_King]

18 minutes ago, CanadaFan123 said:

I can’t believe we didn’t test that field player in net even once. Any Sunday league men’s team would have found a way to test that keeper ...

This. And when we had a chance, Poku blasted it over the net from eight yards out. 

Edited June 19, 2022 by DeRo_Is_King

[Ivan]

10 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

83 posts on players and 3 on the coaching. 

From the opening minute you could see coaching problems, the kick off in fact was just a random boot upfield. I only watched 30 min as it was late here and I was tired. We had possession in our own half, did not risk going forward but were not positioned in a way to take advantage of our on-paper superiority.

Still, I did not see a well-coached team, and in fact have not seen well-coached teams for our youth for a long time. Women as well. 

We have a tendency to want to put "company men (women)" into those coaching slots, taking care of the youth, former players who are somewhat competent. But they seem to be unwilling to demand a lot, do not have great tactical acumen, and are not leading from the bench either. I also do not get the sense there is any consequence for failure. The CSA may just have to look for outside coaching, however much the former MNT players who think they are god's gift may complain. Our senior NTs are coached by non-Canadians.

Also agree that it seemed Smith was the best player out there, Poku is an interesting player as well. Not much more for me.

Yeah, well said.  When was the last time we have beat Cuba?  Even when we had a young Johnny David, we couldn't beat them, and many more from that team have gone on to successful pro careers whereas very few of the Cubans do.

Yet the same coaches are brought back after epic failures.

Well, its not over yet.  Hopefully the boys can get their shit together and go on a run.

[CanadaFan123]

A tell tale sign of the inadequate coaching was when they chose to make 4 subs at the half. Basically saying “we’re down 1-0 because of the personnel” and taking no responsibility or ownership. 
 

1 or 2 subs to shake things up? Fine. But 4 subs was just amateurish. 

[narduch]

The fact that we made Andrew Olivieri the head of all men's youth teams says it all.

If anything the World Cup Qualification has partly masked the fact that the systemic issues still remain at the CSA

Edited June 19, 2022 by narduch

[VinceA]

Reflecting back on this shit show and looking at some player performances.

Alexander - Fine. Didn't like how he was trash talking the Cuban players when they'd miss shots and we were losing. My man shut your mouth and go grab the ball.

Campagna - Solid all night, didn't mind his performance all things considered.

Knight-Lebel - The problem with academy guys is that they generally have no first team experience, and it showed on some of his decision making and ultimately the dreaded back-pass. This is his first game that actually matters and he was not prepared for it.

Abatneh - Solid but similar to Knight-Lebel had moments where his lack of senior training hampered him. Especially compared to Poku who was gliding in the first half.

Poku - Fantastic first half, okay second half which i put to his legs probably getting heavy. Was combining well with Catavolo the first half.

Smith - Very good all game, was always hitting nice passes to begin the attack. I'm interested in seeing where his future lies either as a DM or a CB.

Pellegrino - Didn't even know he was on the pitch. He has a good profile, but like other academy kids he's just not ready for the realities of games that matter where development isn't the goal, it's results.

Henry - Invisible like Pellegrini. My thing with guys like him is that why is a Montreal Academy guy getting over other MLS players who are actually first-teamers and the same age?

Costa - Was okay but for the most part seemed to be easily shut down on his side by Cuba. He's one for 2024 U20s.

Catavolo - Very lively but I wish he has been played in the center. His size doesn't seem to stop his abilities to fight for balls and cut in so he was dangerous. Faded as the game went on.

Mbongue - Terrible first half. It seemed like he expected to be blessed with regular service and as such opted to not involve himself more with the game. Once it became obvious that Biello ball was not going to gift him numerous opportunities he started tracking back and dropping deep. Was better when Wright came on and had a partner.

SUBS

Wright - Much more threatening and a source of better chances for Canada, but he did fall off once the GK switch happened for Cuba and didn't seem to be able to find the game after the 70th minute.

Ferdinand - He was okay but didn't seem to be able to pick a forward pass much.

Franklin - Phenomenal and fearless when he came on. His cross led to the best chance for Canada. Will be needed huge against the US

Zouhir - Honestly? Overrated and overconfident. Initially came on and looked pretty composed but eventually he just started getting in Smith's way and didn't seem quite sure on what he was supposed to do. Potentially a coaching issue (not potentially it was)

Coimbra - Very lively and should have scored that header off of Franklin's cross. Of all the academy guys he seemed to "get it."

Coaching - Abysmal. Similar to the Herdman Honduras game, Canada's inability to adapt and use more simple tactics is a huge failing of this program. In tournaments you use what works. You don't try to impose your philosophy when it becomes clear it ain't gonna fly. Route 1 isn't bad. Especially when you dominate possession anyway and are dealing with low blocks. It's easy to say "If we had Dias, Koleosho, Atanasov, Jebbison or whoever we would have won" but I don't think Biello ball discriminates when it comes to talent level. This team played less than the sum of their parts and having better players would not have changed that.

Two tournaments in a row where Biello gets it wrong.

As I said before, probably up there among most embarrassing performances from a Canadian team. Hey maybe I'm wrong and Cuba surprises the US this tournament. But considering they sleep-walked to a 10-0 victory over SKN, I doubt that.

We can get on our CONACACAF high horse all we want, and we've seen Bontis and the clown crew do that, but look at how the US and Mexico run their youth programs, and look at ours. And then look at the results.

Should also remember: We haven't won shit in this region since 2000 and topping the table for WCQ does not count, especially since for all our huffing and puffing we finished first on goal difference.

 

[Free kick]

I did see a couple (but not very many) good first touches and good individual abilities in that game.  But none from the players on the team wearing the white shirts.  

[Pottsy3]

8 hours ago, SpecialK said:

 

remember the CPL and CSB are growing the game ! So we can lose to Cuba with no goalie 🤣😂🤣🤬🤬

Blaming the CPL for our loss is a weird hill to die on… especially considering the two CPLers were some of the more decent players yesterday.

CPL isn’t some sort of performative league, it is legitimately developing talent at the domestic level.

[DeRo_Is_King]

5 minutes ago, VinceA said:

Ferdinand - He was okay but didn't seem to be able to pick a forward pass much.

I couldn't stand the lack of urgency getting off the field when he needed treatment and time was ticking to nab an equalizer.

[Free kick]

23 minutes ago, VinceA said:

 

Coaching - Abysmal. Similar to the Herdman Honduras game, Canada's inability to adapt and use more simple tactics is a huge failing of this program. In tournaments you use what works. You don't try to impose your philosophy when it becomes clear it ain't gonna fly.

 

We gotta stop with this auto-mode  "Blame the coach everytime everytime we suck"  impulse.   If there is no demonstrated talent on the pitch what is the coach supposed to do.     

 

As for your other individual stuff,  you are just making it up. And undeservedly hyping players up with totally inappropriate superlatives

Edited June 19, 2022 by Free kick

[VinceA]

5 minutes ago, Free kick said:

We gotta stop with this auto-mode  "Blame the coach everytime everytime we suck"  impulse.   If there is no demonstrated talent on the pitch what is the coach supposed to do.     

 

As for your other individual stuff,  you are just making it up. And hyping it up with totally inappropriate superlatives

? We definitely had talent on the pitch. Especially compared to the opponent.

[Free kick]

6 minutes ago, VinceA said:

? We definitely had talent on the pitch. Especially compared to the opponent.

Then we didnt see the same game.   I saw the opposite, i think that the cubans should have won 3-0 where it not for squadered finishing.    we will just have to leave it at that

Edited June 19, 2022 by Free kick

[DeRo_Is_King]

The fact this game should have ended 3 or 4-0 for Cuba illustrates just how bad of a performance it was. Cuba created a number of quality counter-attack chances.

Someone in an earlier post likened this performance to how the U.S. played Canada in Hamilton. That's pretty much what it felt like. Lots of empty possession, and even then, I felt we gave the ball away a fair amount. 

[Free kick]

6 minutes ago, DeRo_Is_King said:

The fact this game should have ended 3 or 4-0 for Cuba illustrates just how bad of a performance it was. Cuba created a number of quality counter-attack chances.

Someone in an earlier post likened this performance to how the U.S. played Canada in Hamilton. That's pretty much what it felt like. Lots of empty possession, and even then, I felt we gave the ball away a fair amount. 

I agree.  except we didnt really ever have possession with any consistency.   The first touches were average to poor.   The passing and distribution was poor from an individual level.  Dont think that there was a good high quality pass all game.  i did see that from the Cubans on a few occasions but they werent a good team either,  but they were clearly better on this night and showed far more on a individual level.

Edited June 19, 2022 by Free kick

[DeRo_Is_King]

3 minutes ago, Free kick said:

I agree.  except we didnt really ever have possession with any consistency.   The first touches were average to poor.   The passing and distribution was poor from an individual level.  Dont think that there was a good high quality pass all game.  i did see from the Cubans on a few occasions but they werent a good team either,  but they were clearly better on this night and showed far more on a individual level.

I agree. 

[narduch]

Believe Cuba had a pre tournament camp in Uruguay.

They were probably much more prepared than we were heading into the game.

For me the only glimmer of hope is that maybe this team can grow into the tournament.

 

[Stryker911]

24 minutes ago, Free kick said:

Then we didnt see the same game.   I saw the opposite, i think that the cubans should have won 3-0 where it not for squadered finishing.    we will just have to leave it at that

Annoying how the announcer kept saying this everytime a Cuban player missed the net. After the through was to a player 5 or more yards offside.

[DeRo_Is_King]

5 minutes ago, Stryker911 said:

Annoying how the announcer kept saying this everytime a Cuban player missed the net. After the through was to a player 5 or more yards offside.

This is a good point. It really isn't an excuse for the loss, but there were missed off-side calls for sure.