Match Thread: CONCACAF U-20 - Group Stage - Canada v Cuba - June 18, 2022 - 8:30pm ET/5:30pm PT

[Stoppage Time]

Am I correct in believing that clubs do not have to release players for FIFA events at the U-2/20/23 level? If so, have any such players been excluded due to lack of club permission? And, how much does this interfere with team preparation?  Second, is this tournament including only players who are U-20 eligible?  Finally, I am not in any way trying to excuse a very disappointing result yesterday!

[jordan]

Losing games me should win, the earth is healing

[Footyeh]

5 hours ago, VinceA said:

Reflecting back on this shit show and looking at some player performances.

Knight-Lebel - The problem with academy guys is that they generally have no first team experience, and it showed on some of his decision making and ultimately the dreaded back-pass. This is his first game that actually matters and he was not prepared for it.

Abatneh - Solid but similar to Knight-Lebel had moments where his lack of senior training hampered him. Especially compared to Poku who was gliding in the first half.

Costa - Was okay but for the most part seemed to be easily shut down on his side by Cuba. He's one for 2024 U20s.

Catavolo - Very lively but I wish he has been played in the center. His size doesn't seem to stop his abilities to fight for balls and cut in so he was dangerous. Faded as the game went on.

Coimbra - Very lively and should have scored that header off of Franklin's cross. Of all the academy guys he seemed to "get it."

Coaching - Abysmal. Similar to the Herdman Honduras game, Canada's inability to adapt and use more simple tactics is a huge failing of this program. In tournaments you use what works. You don't try to impose your philosophy when it becomes clear it ain't gonna fly. Route 1 isn't bad. Especially when you dominate possession anyway and are dealing with low blocks. It's easy to say "If we had Dias, Koleosho, Atanasov, Jebbison or whoever we would have won" but I don't think Biello ball discriminates when it comes to talent level. This team played less than the sum of their parts and having better players would not have changed that.

I don't get this assessment.  When your playing against Cuba, what does it matter if Knight-Lebel and Abatneh having had senior team training experience?!  You think those Cuban boys have anything near the level of the academies those boys are in to prepare them?  

There was nothing okay about Costa, He completed zero crosses, zero dribbles, lost all of his offensive duels, had more back passes then he did forward or lateral.  

Coimbra was lively?  What did he bring?  He didn't win any aerial balls (which he was brought on for), how many touches did he have in the final third?  Was he pressing from the front or was he standing around?  

Why can't we just say it how it is, they were horrible.  

[Footyeh]

3 hours ago, Shway said:

I keep seeing this overhyped players comments.  Who’s the overhyped guys that haven’t been seen playing?

Pelligrino, Costa, Knight-Lebel, who else?

The majority have been seen/or capable of being seen, and have performed well at their respective levels for their age.  Maybe the statement  should be that guys are overhyping the leagues? But even then I’ll disagree.

Abatneh, Coimbra, Goodman, Tavares.... 

Who's seen them play?

[archer21]

13 minutes ago, Footyeh said:

I don't get this assessment.  When your playing against Cuba, what does it matter if Knight-Lebel and Abatneh having had senior team training experience?!  You think those Cuban boys have anything near the level of the academies those boys are in to prepare them?  

There was nothing okay about Costa, He completed zero crosses, zero dribbles, lost all of his offensive duels, had more back passes then he did forward or lateral.  

Coimbra was lively?  What did he bring?  He didn't win any aerial balls (which he was brought on for), how many touches did he have in the final third?  Was he pressing from the front or was he standing around?  

Why can't we just say it how it is, they were horrible.  

I agree on Costa for the most part. He was invisible. I thought Coimbra at least looked somewhat dangerous at times. Thought he looked better than Mbongue. He even drew what would have been a penalty if Catavolo (I think it was) hadn’t been offside just prior. Not that I’m overly impressed by him either, I’m just saying I think there are other players that looked worse. Only players that were clearly positives were Smith, Franklin, and Poku (at times). Wright had moments too but was invisible too often as well.

[Watchmen]

Didn't you all hear Bontis? They can't afford a better U20 coach because of those greedy greedy CMNT players. It was top of his list probably!

[Kadenge]

The majority on here were  shocked with the starting XI and given  the coaching staff made 4 subs at the half confirmed that they made a decision not to start their strongest XI. Given our history in youth tournaments and the fact that JH has always started his best XI (with the exception of 2 games where he had an A & B side  prior to the Suriname game) speaks for itself.  I think @narduchmentioned our U20s in 2015. That team was pretty stacked with Larin, Hamilton, Adekugbe, Bustos, Froese, Boakai, Carducci, Gasparotto, Aparicio etc but Gale decided to heavily rotate every game and we got beat out. You get wins vs the 2  weaker teams and you finish 2nd. What's wrong with that? Now we are in a battle for 3rd place

[ATM]

1 hour ago, archer21 said:

I agree on Costa for the most part. He was invisible. I thought Coimbra at least looked somewhat dangerous at times. Thought he looked better than Mbongue. He even drew what would have been a penalty if Catavolo (I think it was) hadn’t been offside just prior. Not that I’m overly impressed by him either, I’m just saying I think there are other players that looked worse. Only players that were clearly positives were Smith, Franklin, and Poku (at times). Wright had moments too but was invisible too often as well.

You are being too kind. No one stood out. If they lose to the U.S not one of those players should be invited to another camp. NO EXCUSE losing to Cuba.

[archer21]

6 minutes ago, ATM said:

You are being too kind. No one stood out. If they lose to the U.S not one of those players should be invited to another camp. NO EXCUSE losing to Cuba.

I really wasn’t that kind I don’t think, was I? If I was, then that’s not really the way I feel. I think we have to try to stay somewhat reasonable though. In truth, Smith is the only player that looked like he will break into the MNT in the future. These are all kids though, that’s a bit ridiculous to just say that none of them should be invited to a future camp. 

[Stoppage Time]

1 hour ago, Kadenge said:

The majority on here were  shocked with the starting XI and given  the coaching staff made 4 subs at the half confirmed that they made a decision not to start their strongest XI. Given our history in youth tournaments and the fact that JH has always started his best XI (with the exception of 2 games where he had an A & B side  prior to the Suriname game) speaks for itself.  I think @narduchmentioned our U20s in 2015. That team was pretty stacked with Larin, Hamilton, Adekugbe, Bustos, Froese, Boakai, Carducci, Gasparotto, Aparicio etc but Gale decided to heavily rotate every game and we got beat out. You get wins vs the 2  weaker teams and you finish 2nd. What's wrong with that? Now we are in a battle for 3rd place

Again, coaching issues (tactics, selections) at the time of certain matches. Hopefully, we get a youth coach who can actually adapt on the fly when tactics are not effective. The starting plan against Cuba was presumptuous. Get ahead with some strength, and rest certain starters as soon as possible during the match seems to be an obvious plan. Signed from the armchair.

On another note: Shout out to dads everywhere!

[Free kick]

3 hours ago, Footyeh said:

I don't get this assessment.  When your playing against Cuba, what does it matter if Knight-Lebel and Abatneh having had senior team training experience?!  You think those Cuban boys have anything near the level of the academies those boys are in to prepare them?  

There was nothing okay about Costa, He completed zero crosses, zero dribbles, lost all of his offensive duels, had more back passes then he did forward or lateral.  

Coimbra was lively?  What did he bring?  He didn't win any aerial balls (which he was brought on for), how many touches did he have in the final third?  Was he pressing from the front or was he standing around?  

Why can't we just say it how it is, they were horrible.  

Yes.  You always have to respect the effort and time ppl put into posting individual player rating.   None of us will agree on all the ratings but it makes for good discussions usually.  So I shouldn't be critical but that one that you are referring to was one of the more head scratching ones i have ever seen.    One player who was directly responsible for the goal against was rated "solid all night".   For another guy,  the term "fantastic" was used.  But i didnt see anything remotely close to fantastic from anyone in this game in the whole evening.   I am not saying that the effort wasnt there, i am saying that the talent wasnt there.

Edited June 19, 2022 by Free kick

[Stoppage Time]

1 minute ago, Free kick said:

Yes.  You always have respect the effort ppl put into posting individual player rating.   None of us will agree on all the ratings but it makes for good discussions usually.  But that one that you are referring to was one of the more head scratching ones i have ever seen.    One player who was directly responsible for the goal against was rated "solid all night".   For another guy,  the term "fantastic" was used.  But i didnt see anything remotely close to fantastic form anyone in this game in the whole evening.   

Smith, Poku, Franklin, and at times, Wright, Catavolo, and Ferdinand  stood out for me.  really nobody else. Catavolo needs to pass more instead of dribbling into trouble so often.

[ATM]

56 minutes ago, archer21 said:

I really wasn’t that kind I don’t think, was I? If I was, then that’s not really the way I feel. I think we have to try to stay somewhat reasonable though. In truth, Smith is the only player that looked like he will break into the MNT in the future. These are all kids though, that’s a bit ridiculous to just say that none of them should be invited to a future camp. 

A bit extreme on my part. But the National program needs to expand the players pool and look at Canadian/U.S colleges for players.....I know there are hundreds of players, but maybe Canadians on the top 25 U.S College programs. Maybe the top 10 Canadian College/University programs. 

We can't assume players in CPL or the 3 Canadian academies are our best players. Some of our best players Under 22 have decided to get an education and play High level soccer at school.

[PopePouri]

People are calling for Biello's head for this? If this was the senior team, absolutely but I generally hold the unpopular opinion that these tournaments are crapshoots in assessing any talent pool. Go look at the players on all the U17 world cups and see how many are still playing professionally. 

[dyslexic nam]

29 minutes ago, PopePouri said:

People are calling for Biello's head for this? If this was the senior team, absolutely but I generally hold the unpopular opinion that these tournaments are crapshoots in assessing any talent pool. Go look at the players on all the U17 world cups and see how many are still playing professionally. 

But these are kids who are in professional environments.  No one is guaranteeing that these kids will have successful pro careers, but losing to 10-man Cuba with a attacker in their net?  Simply not good enough, and given the resumes that they have, they should be coachable into a cohesive unit that can either dominate a game like last night, or at least bring out a result.  What happened last night was disjointed and ineffective.  

[Free kick]

8 minutes ago, Stoppage Time said:

Smith, Poku, Franklin, and at times, Wright, Catavolo, and Ferdinand  stood out for me.  really nobody else. Catavolo needs to pass more instead of dribbling into trouble so often.

Ok.  Well nobody stood out for me.   Not sure how many times we were able to string three passes together all night.  I dont know if we ever did.  You listed six players that stood out but if six players would have stood out,  then the team would have stood out.   And the team didnt stand out,  did we even get a shot on goal all game?

[Free kick]

14 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

But these are kids who are in professional environments.  No one is guaranteeing that these kids will have successful pro careers, but losing to 10-man Cuba with a attacker in their net?  Simply not good enough, and given the resumes that they have, they should be coachable into a cohesive unit that can either dominate a game like last night, or at least bring out a result.  What happened last night was disjointed and ineffective.  

This is the problem I have.   When we say, our players good resumes, that all relative.    Good resumes,  but in relation to who?  Furthermore, we have never seen any of these players.  

[Ruud]

Nothing to add

just wanted to read this to remember the old days !

[PopePouri]

1 hour ago, dyslexic nam said:

But these are kids who are in professional environments.  No one is guaranteeing that these kids will have successful pro careers, but losing to 10-man Cuba with a attacker in their net?  Simply not good enough, and given the resumes that they have, they should be coachable into a cohesive unit that can either dominate a game like last night, or at least bring out a result.  What happened last night was disjointed and ineffective.  

If this was the senior team, sure, but with a bunch of 18-19 year olds, you're going to expect a lot of tactical naivete and performance dropoff. IMO, it's partly why the US were mediocre during WC quailifying even though a fielded a bunch of younger high potential talent. 

[Shway]

5 hours ago, Footyeh said:

Abatneh, Coimbra, Goodman, Tavares.... 

Who's seen them play?

Two of these names were in the squad? 

Listen I understand what people are saying, but from what we seen Abatneh and Coimbra aren’t deserving of that criticism.

The rest in Assi, Zouhir, Wright, Ferdinand, Catavolo, Poku, Habibullah, Mbongue, Campagna, Ferdinand…(did I miss anyone) have all been seen with substantial minutes.

[TOcanadafan]

I dunno, I’m more leaning to the side of a combo of “limited/insufficient preparation” and poor coaching - tactically and/or getting the message across vs. “This bunch has no talent”.  These are ‘kids’ who haven’t played together and as they’ve been in high performance teams for most of their playing lives, have been conditioned from a young age to ‘do as told’ / ‘play the system’ on the soccer field - they’ve been over-coached. But I’m guessing (correct me if I’m wrong), the club teams all probably have vastly different systems / philosophies. The lack of prep time does zero favours, and we just hope that there will be some chemistry.  In this respect, Cuba was definitely a bogey team - all playing in Cuba, and most have likely come up through the various age groups together.  

To contrast this, over-coached elite Canadian hockey players who are of similar age, all come through a Hockey Canada cookie-cutter system, where every team is coached more-or-less in the same way, especially the provincial and national youth select teams at all age-groups.  It doesn’t matter that they are playing with different players when they are selected for the national squad, the system looks the same, the drills are all the same in practice, the attacking and defensive systems are all the same.

Edited June 20, 2022 by TOcanadafan

[red card]

First coverage of match I have seen. Good deep dive.

Galindo says midfield selection was poor, bad first touches/passes led to most of Cuba's chances, Euro players not as ready for this level, little off the ball movement, Cuba's work rate was way better.

 

Edited June 20, 2022 by red card

[EUROPE]

On 6/19/2022 at 10:01 AM, Buchta said:

 Atanasov might have declined playing for Canada, so maybe he was never really an option.

Atanasov did not decline anything for 🇨🇦, from what I know is just not the right time to join the squad for CONCACAF because simply it was not enough time to do so! He is playing for Bulgarian National Team U19 and he will decide in the future where he will play in terms of National team.

[Buchta]

41 minutes ago, EUROPE said:

Atanasov did not decline anything for 🇨🇦, from what I know is just not the right time to join the squad for CONCACAF because simply it was not enough time to do so! He is playing for Bulgarian National Team U19 and he will decide in the future where he will play in terms of National team.

I was talking about this current tournament, which is why I said 'might' and also 'never really an option'.

I am aware of his situation and his options with Bulgaria.

Edited June 24, 2022 by Buchta

[EUROPE]

23 hours ago, Buchta said:

👍

Edited June 25, 2022 by EUROPE