Concacaf Nations League Match #2: Honduras v Canada - Monday, 13 June, 7 pm PT / 10 pm ET - San Pedro Sula

[shermanator]

For me, this international window has been a complete embarrassment, on and off the pitch. Let’s look at this window…

• The CSA schedules and the cancelling the Iran friendly, losing significant cash in the process.
• The CSA schedules the Panama friendly in a panic.
• The CSA tables an insulting offer to the players. In response, the players screwing over tens of thousands of supporters who paid to see them by refusing to play the Panama friendly, losing significant cash in the process again.
• The players send out a statement that seems reasonable, but at odds with the women’s team who they don’t even consult.
• Many players refuse to acknowledge the supporters in Vancouver after the Curacao match.
• The shambles on the pitch last night in Honduras, spilling over into whatever that backstage video with Adekugbe banging on doors is.

The only positive, if you can call it that, was the play on the pitch against Curacao. But Canada is supposed to do that.

Now let’s get to last night. Was the pitch bad? Yes. Was the officiating bad? Yes. But is that not the set of circumstances that this team has every time they play in Central America? The last few months we’ve puffed out our chests about going to Haiti and playing in the heat and humidity in a nation in political turmoil on a shitty pitch. But last night the pitch is waterlogged and they lose their fucking heads. Can’t adapt at all to tough circumstances when they’re supposed to be talented enough and prepared enough to do so.

The amount of goodwill they’ve undone with the general public with this window is really disappointing. Not that the general public cared much about this window, particularly after the Panama debacle. Hopefully they can schedule some quality opponents in September and get their swagger back before November rolls around.

Edited June 14, 2022 by shermanator

[El Diego]

28 minutes ago, BearcatSA said:

A little too hip for the room with that one. 😅

Are you Dennis Miller?

Tbh I usually find myself using references for things I am currently learning about -- currently halfway through a French Revolution podcast (meaning, Mr. Choppy is just getting warmed up)

[Obinna]

32 minutes ago, shermanator said:

But last night the pitch is waterlogged and they lose their fucking heads. Can’t adapt at all to tough circumstances when they’re supposed to be talented enough and prepared enough to do so.

This is what was concerning to me.

I got Haiti 2019 Gold Cup vibes. Not because the conditions were comparable, but because they played like a defeated team that gave into their frustration. Miller (not to pick on him, just an easy example) played numerous errant long balls that were indicative of a lack of focus. The team never appeared dialed after the second goal until David scored, which gave me comfort. Then of course the ref snatched the chance from them by poorly managing the final minutes, but that's what happens when you leave it late.

I am willing to walk away and consider this a one off, but yeah I did notice how they lost their heads and that concerned me far more than the result.

[Soro17]

3 hours ago, InglewoodJack said:

Oh calm down with the theatrics lol. The pitches in the UK are this waterlogged? You’re supposed to play soccer in a marsh? Cmon. I’m not saying the game should’ve been cancelled- I’m shocked we didn’t protest ahead of the game, but it is what it is. I just don’t think there’s a point in fretting over a team’s performance in a shitty stadium with egregious conditions as we prepare to play a tournament in what are probably the most ultramodern facilities in the world. Our plays will not be slipping and sliding or making 3 meter passes in Qatar that end up in a puddle.

My guess is that we didn't protest because we just wanted to get the game over with and get out of town as soon as possible. Why protest and request a delay in order to wait around another day just to play in the same crappy conditions (San Pedro Sula weather looks stormy all week). The guys probably have vacations planned, trips back to their clubs, etc. 

[InglewoodJack]

20 minutes ago, Soro17 said:

My guess is that we didn't protest because we just wanted to get the game over with and get out of town as soon as possible. Why protest and request a delay in order to wait around another day just to play in the same crappy conditions (San Pedro Sula weather looks stormy all week). The guys probably have vacations planned, trips back to their clubs, etc. 

Maybe that’s right, or maybe it got worse during the match- I tuned in around the 10th minute and tuned out around the 65th, so I’m not sure if it was like that all game. Maybe they just wanted to get this over with too, or they thought they could beat Honduras considering the short squad and the fact they’d be affected by the pitch too. Not too upset at Atiba for not protesting here, just really couldn’t care less about the result, all things considered. It was great to see JD score a goal in a very difficult match. If we suck and only one guy is being productive, it needs to be him.

[costarg]

25 minutes ago, Obinna said:

 Miller (not to pick on him, just an easy example) played numerous errant long balls that were indicative of a lack of focus.

Yes, but this is equivalent to 3 of our guys slipping on free kicks.  There is no difference, the errant long balls were due to being unable to plant the supporting foot and make it stick.

[keysersoze]

I don't read too much into anything that happened, the pitch was a joke and I could understand frustrations boiling over after the awful 2nd yellow and calling the match early.

It's not surprising Honduras would be more comfortable playing on that pitch, but as some others have noted, it was a bit troubling Canada kept playing into problem areas. It seemed like Canada was slipping at a much higher rate than Honduras was which doesn't totally make sense to me. 

[The Beaver 2.0]

After a good sleep I will say this:

1. The game should have been called off before it started. The field was in a condition where significant injury was highly likely.

2. We were too naive and did not adapt to the conditions.  Davies was especially naive, as he can be too often, thinking he can just dribble through everyone all the time, especially on field conditions that do not play to his strengths. Sometimes you've gotta grind things out, adapt, get smart. We did not do enough of that last night. Not sure Herdman helped in this regard, but I was not in the locker room at the half.

3. The ref was poo-poo. No cap.

4. 5000 lubed-up Sudbury farmers haunted my dreams all night. (Damn you, El Hombre)

 

[Gian-Luca]

If people are disappointed by our WC prep this window, you might feel better if you look at what England has done the past couple of weeks....

[costarg]

2 minutes ago, Gian-Luca said:

If people are disappointed by our WC prep this window, you might feel better if you look at what England has done the past couple of weeks....

Good point!  I'll add.... i'm glad Croatia is tearing it up as well, cause by the time we meet, odds say we'll be due for a win and they'll be due of a loss.  

[Obinna]

36 minutes ago, costarg said:

Yes, but this is equivalent to 3 of our guys slipping on free kicks.  There is no difference, the errant long balls were due to being unable to plant the supporting foot and make it stick.

That's correct, but I don't recall the Hondurans slipping like that, do you? I was admittedly more focused on our guys, so maybe you can correct me on that if it's not accurate. 

However, maybe we shouldn't have been playing those kind of passes if we were slipping around while doing so. Same with the Kaye pass that just stopped in a puddle. I feel we could have played better to the conditions, instead of playing the way we always do on a field that doesn't allow it.

Now maybe my read on it is wrong and that's nothing to do with frustration getting the best of us, but we sure didn't look like we were embracing the conditions and playing to them.

The Hondurans did, however, so they get all the credit in the world (even though I hate them lol)

[Obinna]

6 minutes ago, Gian-Luca said:

If people are disappointed by our WC prep this window, you might feel better if you look at what England has done the past couple of weeks....

Thought that. Points dropped versus Hungary was a big oof. Far worse than our result, considering who England are.

[InglewoodJack]

Big shout out to my boy Tomori who can’t even make a match day squad for a team that lost 4-0 to Hungary. Mans could’ve been planning for Qatar by now!

[Gian-Luca]

2 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Thought that. Points dropped versus Hungary was a big oof. Far worse than our result, considering who England are.

Points dropped twice to Hungary, including getting thrashed 4-0 at home today.

England hasn't been hammered at home like that by Hungary since Puskas played, when Hungary was the best team in the world. The biggest problem for us is that we haven't learned anything by hammering Curacao at home and then playing a newly-invented sport in a swamp in Honduras, but I don't think we're any worse off than we were before - the frustration is that we aren't better off than we were before. England look to be receding. It's one thing to learn something new about your team, its' another to learn that they can't score at all and are capable of being humiliated at home by non-WC teams just ahead of the World Cup...

 

[dyslexic nam]

1 minute ago, InglewoodJack said:

Big shout out to my boy Tomori who can’t even make a match day squad for a team that lost 4-0 to Hungary. Mans could’ve been planning for Qatar by now!

Still what I consider to be the dumbest decision by a dual nat to date.  Anchor a young emerging side in at least 2 back to back World Cups or take table scraps from a country that is clearly exploiting you.  Hmmm…

[costarg]

8 minutes ago, Obinna said:

That's correct, but I don't recall the Hondurans slipping like that, do you? I was admittedly more focused on our guys, so maybe you can correct me on that if it's not accurate. 

However, maybe we shouldn't have been playing those kind of passes if we were slipping around while doing so. Same with the Kaye pass that just stopped in a puddle. I feel we could have played better to the conditions, instead of playing the way we always do on a field that doesn't allow it.

Now maybe my read on it is wrong and that's nothing to do with frustration getting the best of us, but we sure didn't look like we were embracing the conditions and playing to them.

The Hondurans did, however, so they get all the credit in the world (even though I hate them lol)

That's a great point, I couldn't understand why we'd keep passing using the same water clogged lines.  So frustrating. 

[Corazon]

24 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

Big shout out to my boy Tomori who can’t even make a match day squad for a team that lost 4-0 to Hungary. Mans could’ve been planning for Qatar by now!

To be fair, England rotated heavily and Guehi got the start alongside Stones (who was sent off) at Center Back.  Tomori got the start last game vs Italy alongside Maguire, earning a shutout in a 0-0 game.  Most European powerhouses are heavily rotating their squads.  They are treating these Nations League games as prep for the World Cup more than anything.  A lot of players getting playing time that likely won't feature for country come November. England played a back 3 with Maguire, Coady & Walker in the 1st game with TAA & Justin as wingbacks.  They played Maguire & Stones along side Walker & Trippier in their 2nd game.  Tomori & Maguire played alongside Trippier & Reece James last game vs Italy and then today played with Guehi & Stones alongside Reece & Walker.

Both England and France have been abysmal.  Even in their rotated squads, you would expect a lot more.

I argue with my friends all the time about the mistake Tomori made but he did just play very well against Italy a couple days ago.

Lastly, although 100 caps, a chance of being a captain for Canada and guaranteed World Cup with Canada seems more appealing.  Tomori is going to get a lot more caps in his career for England.  Maguire is 29, Stones is 28, Coady is 29, Mings is 29.  Tomori is 24.  It seems clear to me that he was cap tied for the future more than anything.  Although, he in my opinion he is already better than all 4 of those mentioned above.  I suspect that within a year or two, and at the age of 25, he will be a regular for England at Center Back.  It would not surprise me if he is 3rd choice come Qatar behind Stones & Maguire (FWIW, I do not rate Maguire or Stones, I just don't see him getting the starts over those two in Qatar.  Playing in Italy doesn't help as you have to work harder to breakthrough than England players playing at mid table premier league clubs.

Edited June 14, 2022 by Corazon

[Unnamed Trialist]

4 hours ago, Obinna said:

Wasn't meant to hurt. I am just saying that characterizing our boys as "Pussies" in any way probably won't be well received, except maybe from rival fans who frequent the board. That was all I was getting at. Cheers.

OK let's use Herman's analogy, to stop being the hunted and start being the hunter. 

If you're turning into the prey as soon as things don't go your way, maybe there are questions to resolve. 

I realize "hunted" isn't exactly "pussy", I've been stalked by a mountain lion before so I'm aware some pussy-assed creatures know how to hunt. 

 

[InglewoodJack]

19 minutes ago, Corazon said:

To be fair, England rotated heavily and Guehi got the start alongside Stones (who was sent off) at Center Back.  Tomori got the start last game vs Italy alongside Maguire, earning a shutout in a 0-0 game.  Most European powerhouses are heavily rotating their squads.  They are treating these Nations League games as prep for the World Cup more than anything.  A lot of players getting playing time that likely won't feature for country come November. England played a back 3 with Maguire, Coady & Walker in the 1st game with TAA & Justin as wingbacks.  They played Maguire & Stones along side Walker & Trippier in their 2nd game.  Tomori & Maguire played alongside Trippier & Reece James last game vs Italy and then today played with Guehi & Stones alongside Reece & Walker.

Both England and France have been abysmal.  Even in their rotated squads, you would expect a lot more.

I argue with my friends all the time about the mistake Tomori made but he did just play very well against Italy a couple days ago.

Lastly, although 100 caps, a chance of being a captain for Canada and guaranteed World Cup with Canada seems more appealing.  Tomori is going to get a lot more caps in his career for England.  Maguire is 29, Stones is 28, Coady is 29, Mings is 29.  Tomori is 24.  It seems clear to me that he was cap tied for the future more than anything.  Although, he in my opinion he is already better than all 4 of those mentioned above.  I suspect that within a year or two, and at the age of 25, he will be a regular for England at Center Back.  It would not surprise me if he is 3rd choice come Qatar behind Stones & Maguire (FWIW, I do not rate Maguire or Stones, I just don't see him getting the starts over those two in Qatar.  Playing in Italy doesn't help as you have to work harder to breakthrough than England players playing at mid table premier league clubs.

Hey man I was just trying to talk shit, no need to hit me with facts and stuff

[Bison44]

Hunted by mountain lions..... hmmmm, UT......you know having the divorcee next door invite you over for "coffee" doesnt count as being hunted by a cougar.  

[Unnamed Trialist]

25 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

Hunted by mountain lions..... hmmmm, UT......you know having the divorcee next door invite you over for "coffee" doesnt count as being hunted by a cougar.  

I'm at the age when my cougars would be in their 70s so let's not even think about it. 

Anyways, in BC in the wild you'd normally not know a large feline was following you, it's only an odd feeling, and then, maybe, when it quits, you might see it. Hard to describe. 

I worked as a geologists assistant over maybe 5-6 seasons in BC, Alaska, Yukon, you learn a lot especially when you feel fear. 

Edited June 14, 2022 by Unnamed Trialist

[Obinna]

33 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I'm at the age when my cougars would be in their 70s so let's not even think about it. 

Anyways, in BC in the wild you'd normally not know a large feline was following you, it's only an odd feeling, and then, maybe, when it quits, you might see it. Hard to describe. 

I worked as a geologists assistant over maybe 5-6 seasons in BC, Alaska, Yukon, you learn a lot especially when you feel fear. 

Man some of us around here have more in common than we realize.

Talking about the geology, not the 70 year old cougars

[Obinna]

1 hour ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

OK let's use Herman's analogy, to stop being the hunted and start being the hunter. 

If you're turning into the prey as soon as things don't go your way, maybe there are questions to resolve. 

One thing I agree with is that we still may have work to do mentally when the chips being down. And maybe that's just within concacaf. That's 3 away losses in a row now. Each of them saw us going down first and being unable to rescue points. The two games where that wasn't the case during qualifying was away to Mexico or USA, funny enough. Those are not what I mean by "away in concacaf". I mean central America specifically. I want to see us go away to CR, Honduras or El Salvador and get a come from behind win, or at least a draw.

On the bright side, the fact I can even talk that way shows how far we've come, so it's not all doom and gloom.

[pod818]

16 minutes ago, Obinna said:

One thing I agree with is that we still may have work to do mentally when the chips being down. And maybe that's just within concacaf. That's 3 away losses in a row now. Each of them saw us going down first and being unable to rescue points. The two games where that wasn't the case during qualifying was away to Mexico or USA, funny enough. Those are not what I mean by "away in concacaf". I mean central America specifically. I want to see us go away to CR, Honduras or El Salvador and get a come from behind win, or at least a draw.

On the bright side, the fact I can even talk that way shows how far we've come, so it's not all doom and gloom.

I don't feel too bad about any of those 3 losses away in Central America. 

against Costa Rica, we got an early red card and played 1 man down the entire game. CR were fighting for their lives at home and we still dominated them

We lost against Panama after 3 straight days of partying, and no preparation, I don't put much into that game at all. The boys were probably all hungover.

And then there's the swamp game at Honduras which ended up being a flip of the coin. 

These were all unusual circumstances and the Honduras game was literally more of a waterpolo game than soccer game. 

 

[trc2014]