Concacaf Nations League Match #2: Honduras v Canada - Monday, 13 June, 7 pm PT / 10 pm ET - San Pedro Sula

[Gian-Luca]

24 minutes ago, prairiecanuck said:

Yeah.  I feel like last night was bit of Karma..lol. The match had to be played. It's difficult to reschedule and the fans showed up.  It was a crapshoot.  We lost.  Congratulate the Honduran fans and move on.  The result was not a reflection on the quality of our team.  Surely, most of us have more confidence in the squad than to worry about what transpired last night.  That loss has brought zero anxiety to my feelings about the squad.  

Yes, I also feel no anxiety whatsoever from this, since it wasn't possible to play a soccer match on that pitch last night. However, I don't feel last night was any sort of Karma against us either. The Honduran fans on Twitter are claiming that this serves us right for us having made them play their World Cup Qualifier against us at home in a climate "unsuitable for soccer", which shows that not only do they have woeful memories that don't last even six months (it was the US that did that to them in January, not Canada) but also don't recall past WCQ cycles where Honduras would schedule games against us at 2pm in the summer. All Concacaf teams have used climate (and in case of Mexico, altitude/air quality conditions) to their advantages for years, the complaint has always been for several decades that Canada never took advantage of this. We shouldn't feel any guilt IMO for doing so now.

However, playing on a pitch where the ball can't even roll two feet before stopping in a puddle of water is the textbook definition of unplayable. They would have had as much success in advancing what they were kicking if they playing with the square footballs sold by the Grot shop in season 2 of the BBC's "The Fall and Rise of Reginald Perrin". We didn't make it snow in November anymore than Honduras made it rain last night, but we at least got the precipitation off the pitch. In any case, the finger pointing needs to go to Concacaf and the official for even proceeding with the match, rather than the Honduran federation. I am not overly concerned about that for the sake of the NL, the team should still win both its last two games and finish first and in any case, its tough to give two squirts of piss about the NL right now when we have the World Cup coming up, which I have waited every day of those 36 years for - in fact, as we played our last World Cup game on June 9th 1986, it has now officially been over 36 years since we last played in the World Cup.

Also, knowing that we don't have to face another annoying twat-filled Concacaf team until March (unless we somehow meet them in the latter stages of the World Cup) puts me in a good mood. It will be nice to take a break from this region.

[CCrTFC]

I don't like the tunnel video of the players. I understand the conditions sucked but quite frankly, suck it up and adjust. They kept trying to move the ball around and they would inevitably lose possession. 

[EJsens1]

18 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Regardless, the rules specifically say that the captains can claim that the pitch is waterlogged and call on the ref to wait, postpone, call off. We did not, because we basically went down there with a cavalier attitude. So that is on us. If we'd played because the ref imposed the match against our criteria, it'd be different. 

 

What is your basis for that? Were you down there with the team or is this just a hunch you have? 

[Approve My Account Pls]

I'll be honest my only take aways from that game were fuck that game and I'm just happy none of our boys got hurt...

[SthMelbRed]

It's standard practice, when dealing with a waterlogged pitch, for the referee to do a basic test of the playability of the surface. This is done by taking a football and rolling it really hard across various sections of the pitch. If the ball hits puddles and stops dead, rather than rolling to a stop, a competent referee deems the pitch unplayable and makes the decision to either delay or call off the match. This is entirely a decision of the referee. He doesn't have to seek the advice of the coaches or captains. It's a decision for him to make.

The fact that the referee decided that that pitch was okay for a match of international football to proceed is a sign of incompetence or corruption. 

[The Beaver 2.0]

This just in: We now share a border with a European country!  Can we use this to join UEFA?

"Flag war" with Denmark over tiny Arctic island set to end peacefully with deal (msn.com)

[InglewoodJack]

1 hour ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Well first, I played on waterlogged pitches my entire youth through rainy Vancouver winters, and in parts of Vancouver that had the highest rainfall in some cases (Lynn Valley). 

Perhaps you have heard, they also play it in England. 

But let's just pretend that never happened and make up shit as to why we are weak minded and are so quick on the excuses. Honduras played on the same pitch.

Regardless, the rules specifically say that the captains can claim that the pitch is waterlogged and call on the ref to wait, postpone, call off. We did not, because we basically went down there with a cavalier attitude. So that is on us. If we'd played because the ref imposed the match against our criteria, it'd be different. 

Whatever happened to owning the decisions you make in life? 

That is why Honduras is a ganster football team and we are still in pussy mode.

Oh calm down with the theatrics lol. The pitches in the UK are this waterlogged? You’re supposed to play soccer in a marsh? Cmon. I’m not saying the game should’ve been cancelled- I’m shocked we didn’t protest ahead of the game, but it is what it is. I just don’t think there’s a point in fretting over a team’s performance in a shitty stadium with egregious conditions as we prepare to play a tournament in what are probably the most ultramodern facilities in the world. Our plays will not be slipping and sliding or making 3 meter passes in Qatar that end up in a puddle.

[costarg]

55 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I didn't say there was equivalency: we deliberately screwed rivals with extreme temperatures and iffy pitches, Honduras did not. 

So we have even less to bitch about and anything else is ultra-loser mentality.

I agree.  Honduras didn't plan this, they just benefited.  Playing on that field turned it into a glorified coin toss instead of a more talented team playing against a weeker opponent.  

The only sour taste I have is regarding the idiot ref and i don't say that lightly. 

What were the options?  Could the game actually have been pushed back to today if the ref deemed the field unworthy?  Cause cancelling it altogether would've been even worse.

[lbula17]

1 hour ago, CCrTFC said:

I don't like the tunnel video of the players. I understand the conditions sucked but quite frankly, suck it up and adjust. They kept trying to move the ball around and they would inevitably lose possession. 

The tunnel video was acceptable. The ref was brutal throughout the game, and the calls which we made at the end only made it worse. A total of 1 minute of added time was played, and he pushed our captain. The anger the players felt was reasonable and the ref should be punished accordingly. 

[Ally McCoist]

This comment on Reddit sums it up nicely (except for that first sentence)

[Unnamed Trialist]

2 hours ago, EJsens1 said:

What is your basis for that? Were you down there with the team or is this just a hunch you have? 

You might want to unlock that jaw, son.

It's funny the posturing and bravado and how easily it gets burst. 

Let's actually do something more than qualify for Qatar, how about it?

[Unnamed Trialist]

1 hour ago, InglewoodJack said:

Oh calm down with the theatrics lol. The pitches in the UK are this waterlogged? You’re supposed to play soccer in a marsh? Cmon. I’m not saying the game should’ve been cancelled- I’m shocked we didn’t protest ahead of the game, but it is what it is. I just don’t think there’s a point in fretting over a team’s performance in a shitty stadium with egregious conditions as we prepare to play a tournament in what are probably the most ultramodern facilities in the world. Our plays will not be slipping and sliding or making 3 meter passes in Qatar that end up in a puddle.

So we agree. 

I'm arguing that the rage and fury is totally overstated and not at all balanced. 

The team is supposed to get a result against a far inferior team even if the conditions are far from ideal, that is the only fact I am clear on.

[Obinna]

7 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

So we agree. 

I'm arguing that the rage and fury is totally overstated and not at all balanced. 

The team is supposed to get a result against a far inferior team even if the conditions are far from ideal, that is the only fact I am clear on.

I think you both fundamentally agree. He probably just takes issue with your characterization of our team being stuck in "Pussy mode". The only one that's liked your comment thus far is an American fan, which may say something. 

A simple "we need to play to the conditions without getting too frustrated" would have been enough. Making more of it is theatrical in my opinion. That's where I would agree with Inglewood.

[InglewoodJack]

11 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

So we agree. 

I'm arguing that the rage and fury is totally overstated and not at all balanced. 

The team is supposed to get a result against a far inferior team even if the conditions are far from ideal, that is the only fact I am clear on.

The only thing I’m concerned about is that this game is meaningless in terms of what we can expect from Qatar, because the pitch played such a part in the game, which will not be the case in Qatar. Hell, if Mexico wants to argue that the result in Edmonton against us means little to them too, so be it.

[Unnamed Trialist]

3 minutes ago, Obinna said:

I think you both fundamentally agree. He probably just takes issue with your characterization of our team being stuck in "Pussy mode". The only one that's liked your comment thus far is an American fan, which may say something. 

A simple "we need to play to the conditions without getting too frustrated" would have been enough. Making more of it is theatrical in my opinion. That's where I would agree with Inglewood.

I'm here counting those likes and living vicariously through them, so that comment really hurts. 

[Unnamed Trialist]

3 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

The only thing I’m concerned about is that this game is meaningless in terms of what we can expect from Qatar, because the pitch played such a part in the game, which will not be the case in Qatar. Hell, if Mexico wants to argue that the result in Edmonton against us means little to them too, so be it.

Agree it's meaningless as long as we still win this damn NL group and go to the semis. 

Apart from the ranking points we lost, we must be 40th now. 

[Obinna]

5 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I'm here counting those likes and living vicariously through them, so that comment really hurts. 

Wasn't meant to hurt. I am just saying that characterizing our boys as "Pussies" in any way probably won't be well received, except maybe from rival fans who frequent the board. That was all I was getting at. Cheers.

[El Diego]

I just finished watching this match now. I haven't read through this thread so apologies if I am talking about stuff that has already been hashed out multiple times:

1. The pitch was unplayable imo, game should not have gone ahead

2. That being said, Canada was very naive. Too rigid in their plan and, frankly, too stupid to remember which areas of the pitch had puddles that stopped the ball.

3. Jim Brennan is annoying. Constantly whining about the ref, the conditions, how our boys won't learn anything from this and calling us "champions of CONCACAF" which we haven't been for 22 years. Honestly he gave off a very loser mentality. I hope this isn't the general attitude in the program. We qualified for one World Cup -- it was a brilliant achievement of course -- but I hope we don't think we are suddenly owed anything. I actually liked Gareth a lot more in this one in comparison to Brennan, he actually gave the Hondurans credit once or twice.

4. The referee was nowhere near as bad as Wheeler and Brennan made him out to be. I think the second yellow on Johnston was a bad call, sure, but the rest of the game he was fine (other than allowing it to be played in the first place). For example, on the Davies free kick call in the 62nd minute -- he allowed advantage and called it back after David dove. Frankly, he let it go quite far to pull it back so it was to the benefit of Canada, but Brennan and Wheeler audibly wondered "What is he doing?" Maybe if you actually analyzed the situation instead of having a conspiratorial slant more at home in 1790s France, you'll see that the call was beneficial to Canada.

5. EDIT: Just watched the 41 second tunnel video -- much ado about nothing.

[costarg]

44 minutes ago, El Diego said:

4. The referee was nowhere near as bad as Wheeler and Brennan made him out to be. I think the second yellow on Johnston was a bad call, sure, but the rest of the game he was fine (other than allowing it to be played in the first place). For example, on the Davies free kick call in the 62nd minute -- he allowed advantage and called it back after David dove. Frankly, he let it go quite far to pull it back so it was to the benefit of Canada, but Brennan and Wheeler audibly wondered "What is he doing?" Maybe if you actually analyzed the situation instead of having a conspiratorial slant more at home in 1790s France, you'll see that the call was beneficial to Canada.

 

How about 1 minute of added time played on 6?  No issue or concern with that?  Just sweep it under the rug?  The ref was horrible, there was no consistancy on either side.  

Edited June 14, 2022 by costarg

[BigMo]

47 minutes ago, El Diego said:

I just finished watching this match now. I haven't read through this thread so apologies if I am talking about stuff that has already been hashed out multiple times:

1. The pitch was unplayable imo, game should not have gone ahead

2. That being said, Canada was very naive. Too rigid in their plan and, frankly, too stupid to remember which areas of the pitch had puddles that stopped the ball.

3. Jim Brennan is annoying. Constantly whining about the ref, the conditions, how our boys won't learn anything from this and calling us "champions of CONCACAF" which we haven't been for 22 years. Honestly he gave off a very loser mentality. I hope this isn't the general attitude in the program. We qualified for one World Cup -- it was a brilliant achievement of course -- but I hope we don't think we are suddenly owed anything. I actually liked Gareth a lot more in this one in comparison to Brennan, he actually gave the Hondurans credit once or twice.

4. The referee was nowhere near as bad as Wheeler and Brennan made him out to be. I think the second yellow on Johnston was a bad call, sure, but the rest of the game he was fine (other than allowing it to be played in the first place). For example, on the Davies free kick call in the 62nd minute -- he allowed advantage and called it back after David dove. Frankly, he let it go quite far to pull it back so it was to the benefit of Canada, but Brennan and Wheeler audibly wondered "What is he doing?" Maybe if you actually analyzed the situation instead of having a conspiratorial slant more at home in 1790s France, you'll see that the call was beneficial to Canada.

5. EDIT: Just watched the 41 second tunnel video -- much ado about nothing.

Great post and reflects exactly how I feel. Really dislike the whining about the confederation, refereeing, pitch conditions etc the moment we get a poor result. Disliked the references to this from the manager as well.

At the end of the day, you deal with the cards you are dealt - it was the approach they took to qualifying, so why is that out of the door now? Were the away games played in Western Europe with UEFA referees? 

I hope its an aberration and quickly forgotten, but I really hope the team and manager do not share the victim-like sentiment for a poor result.  Take accountability, be less naive next time, and move on.

Edited June 14, 2022 by BigMo

[El Diego]

9 minutes ago, costarg said:

How about 1 minute of added time played on 6?  No issue or concern with that?  Just sweep it under the rug?  The ref was horrible, there was no consistancy on either side.  

Not really, no

[InglewoodJack]

1 hour ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Agree it's meaningless as long as we still win this damn NL group and go to the semis. 

Apart from the ranking points we lost, we must be 40th now. 

Yeah, but even with that, we’re going to tumble after the World Cup, so I’ve trained myself to stop looking at those, lol

[Kadenge]

I like JH's analogy of trying to take a formula 1 car off road in reference to the pitch conditions. This team is built to play a certain style. Yes, one could argue that's not good enough, but they do adjust tactically during games as we have seen in WCQ and it worked right? but to expect players like Davies, Tajon, David to play hoof ball on that field is crazy. Any of the top teams at Qatar would have struggled yesterday. Our set pieces, which is where we could have had some success yesterday, once again let us down.

[Ally McCoist]

29 minutes ago, BigMo said:

Great post and reflects exactly how I feel. Really dislike the whining about the confederation, refereeing, pitch conditions etc the moment we get a poor result. Disliked the references to this from the manager as well.

At the end of the day, you deal with the cards you are dealt - it was the approach they took to qualifying, so why is that out of the door now? Were the away games played in Western Europe with UEFA referees? 

I hope its an aberration and quickly forgotten, but I really hope the team and manager do not share the victim-like sentiment for a poor result.  Take accountability, be less naive next time, and move on.

The one thing you and the guy you're replying to are missing is the context of this being a World Cup year. Generally we would laugh this off as typical CONCACAF bs but this sentiment is rightfully being emphasized after this game because it hinders our World Cup preparation.  We couldn't practice any of our tactics. This game had negative value for us. Not positive, not net zero. 

I feel bad for the players and coaching staff, they're the most negatively affected by this. We already knew before this game that San Pedro Sula is a shithole.

Edited June 14, 2022 by Ally McCoist

[BearcatSA]

1 hour ago, El Diego said:

Maybe if you actually analyzed the situation instead of having a conspiratorial slant more at home in 1790s France, you'll see that the call was beneficial to Canada.

A little too hip for the room with that one. 😅

Are you Dennis Miller?