The CSA President

[shorty]

6 hours ago, Kent said:

If the next president were to be a former player, my vote would be for Clare Rustad. I don't know, she has just always impressed me when she has done commentating on TV. She seems really bright. I don't know if she has the business acumen, but she seems like the kind of person that will be able to learn things quickly, and probably hire the right people to fill in gaps in her skillset as @shortywas just alluding to.

She is a medical doctor if I remember correctly as well as a broadcaster.
(yup, should have read the next two comments before posting lol)

Her mother was Superintendent of schools for few years in our District and rightly very proud. Clare is awesome. Good shout. 
 

ps Her mother was an excellent administrator. Should point that out given my previous post, lol. 

Edited June 9, 2022 by shorty

[Unnamed Trialist]

So 63 people think Bontis should be fired when he can't be fired as per the CSA statutes? And we are worried about being well informed?

Or are you all calling for a resignation? Which you could also do in letter form to the CSA board or members of it. So go for it.

Bontis is an elected president of an association, he can resign, or there are mechanisms to remove him, internally, which would go through the existing board that he himself named. It is possible, not all board members see eye-to-eye and the CSA has a long history of VPs and others running against the incumbent. I think the proper term is that a member can be expelled for reasons clearly laid out in the statutes, and that would go to vote regardless.

As for this puerile discussion of who should be president: it is a voted post, with elections every 4 years. It does not matter that Craig Forrest or Claire Rustad are great people and highly respected, that does not mean Soccer Nova Scotia or the referees rep are going to vote for them. 

No one is going to become president of the CSA without being known and having a dialogue with and knowing the relevant constituencies and controlling voting blocks. These I believe are the provincial associations, the leagues, the coaches, former players and the refs. Then there are non-voting blocks who I suppose could pressure the former 5 blocks. 

As we stand if I understand right, 60 of 85 of the votes in the CSA belong to the provincial and territorial associations. This is not proportional by population, each province/territory gets a minimum, the larger provinces can only get a maximum. So there is a territorial balance that counters representation by population or federated players or whatever.

When Montigliani became president he did not receive the votes of the 3 MLS clubs (not even from Whitecaps, and he's from BC) or Edmonton, not sure if Fury also voted back then or not. In Canada, you have to control the big provincial federations to be elected.

Could the fans have a voting representation on the CSA? Of course, if it were lobbied for, worked out in the statutes, and approved. In fact the statutes have a mechanism wherby a "corporation" can request to become a voting or non-voting member of the CSA. Should the fans through the Voyageurs or other supporter groups have some membership even non-voting? Could work, it is a matter of lobbying/applying for that too. 

The fans, or indeed any individual, could also petition or nominate any other eligible individual to be a member of the board.

If some think more ex-players should be on the CSA board, then they should be 1-voting for candidates commited to this, and 2-lobbying to see existing boards change their profiles. Same if you think there should be greater ethnic/racial/gender diversity on the CSA, or a bigger voice for futsal or beach soccer. 

Asking Bontis to resign: if you could get to a point where a board had lost confidence in a president, it could be meaningful. Or if they could see themselves as electorally threatened. But if those calling for his "firing" or resignation can't even make a call or send a letter to that end, I think these 63 votes and the apparent massive support of the Voyageurs for his removal is weakly based.

Just found the current bylaws, but I think I am more or less right, I just altered a few things to this post for accuracy but may have read too quickly:

https://www.canadasoccer.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/CSA-GC-By-laws-2021_EN_FINAL.pdf

PS: also blown away that fans think the CSA president should be a paid position, don't think you have any idea what the point of it being a non-paid position is. 

Edited June 9, 2022 by Unnamed Trialist

[shorty]

UT thanks for the reminder that everything has to work through a process. I will be the first to admit ignorance, not that there ARE statutes that govern the CSA, but what they say specifically. Plus your reminder of the political realities is important.
 

In fact, it’s not unlike education where you have a large group of employees who have a great deal of autonomy in their professional lives and who see the failings in “the system” but who don’t understand or appreciate the layers and layers of governance and statute that must be worked through to effect change. 
 

Thanks again for the reminder. I do think, though, that if they were motivated (big if) someone like a Forrest or Rustad would have enough inside experience of soccer politics to at least be aware of what getting to that position would entail. But you’re right — they can’t just be installed. 

[SpecialK]

Of course there is always policies and procedures. 
 

I think just the fact that the leader of the CSA is a non-paid position in my opinion is kind of ludicrously. This person has the final say in huge decisions and is the voice of the CSA. Now do I believe the board should be paid I don’t. But for me I don’t want a part time guy who’s working at his/her profession and is the President as a hobby. It’s time for the CSA to be more professional. Also if it’s paid we might get more people to sign up and run. 

Edited June 9, 2022 by SpecialK

[Greatest Cockney Rip Off]

21 minutes ago, SpecialK said:

Of course there is always policies and procedures. 
 

I think just the fact that the leader of the CSA is a non-paid position in my opinion is kind of ludicrously. This person has the final say in huge decisions and is the voice of the CSA. Now do I believe the board should be paid I don’t. But for me I don’t want a part time guy who’s working at his/her profession and is the President as a hobby. It’s time for the CSA to be more professional. Also if it’s paid we might get more people to sign up and run. 

Does he have the final say? I’ve not read the CSA’s laws. Also in a lot of organisations, the president (as well as board members) are voluntary positions. Not sure about the footballing world. 

[SpecialK]

5 minutes ago, Greatest Cockney Rip Off said:

Does he have the final say? I’ve not read the CSA’s laws. Also in a lot of organisations, the president (as well as board members) are voluntary positions. Not sure about the footballing world. 

For example my understanding is the President has the final say on the coaching decision. Like herdman was reed’s man and Oz was Victor’s pick. 

[SpecialK]

The President CSA has a lot of power

[Greatest Cockney Rip Off]

I’ve just had a look at the CSA’s bylaws and it is set up very similarly to an organisation I worked for where president is largely a figurehead position that chairs the board and has an equal voting right to all other board members. Here are the presidents duties. 
 

8.02 Duties of the Officers
A. President
i. The President represents Canada Soccer and speaks for the Board, ensuring that Canada Soccer’s mission, strategic direction, policies and values, as defined by the Board, are protected and advanced.
ii. The President:
a) chairs meetings of the Board and Meetings of the Members of Canada Soccer;
b) ensures that decisions by the Board are implemented; and
c) represents Canada Soccer at meetings of FIFA, CONCACAF, other Confederations, and other international organizations, and seeks to maintain and develop good relations with these Associations/organizations and its Member organizations and government bodies.
iii. The roles and responsibilities of the President are set out in full in the Governance Policies.

 

 

It is the general secretary’s job to actually do the heavy lifting and implement vision that is voted on by the board but the board will need to approve any major decisions taking by the general secretary. 

[Unnamed Trialist]

34 minutes ago, SpecialK said:

Of course there is always policies and procedures. 
 

I think just the fact that the leader of the CSA is a non-paid position in my opinion is kind of ludicrously. This person has the final say in huge decisions and is the voice of the CSA. Now do I believe the board should be paid I don’t. But for me I don’t want a part time guy who’s working at his/her profession and is the President as a hobby. It’s time for the CSA to be more professional. Also if it’s paid we might get more people to sign up and run. 

That part-time model or non-paid model, however you look at it, does not mean you don't work. I've been president of a non-profit with maybe no more than a few hundred thousand in budget, and the work is constant and intense. As is the risk of burnout.

I think the idea is that you have a president and board and set policy, then you hire staff, as much as you need or can, to be paid to solve problems full time. 

Being non-paid means you decide without fearing for your salary and without being vulnerable before lobbies or special interests that can pay to get their way. 

Clearly with this particular case Bontis is not delegating properly, is not organising priorities right, and/or is not getting the adequate results from those paid to get them in line with CSA board priorities. For example, whoever is working with Herdman on friendlies is doing a disastrous job, for example. Odd, because it seems the Women go smoothly, relatively speaking, in this regard. Or maybe we should be asking if Herdman's role or demands are making the task harder for the men than it for the women.

[Greatest Cockney Rip Off]

8 minutes ago, SpecialK said:

The President CSA has a lot of power

You just made that up. See above. 

Edited June 9, 2022 by Greatest Cockney Rip Off

[ag futbol]

I see no point of getting caught in the granularities here. 

The big picture is this: the CSA is in charge of a lot of different things and given all that is going on, it is inappropriate for the leader of the organization to be an unpaid volunteer. 

As far as Bonis goes, he should quit or be forced out. Ticketing, merch, Iran, now player issues, they have dropped the ball. 

The opportunity here is for the mens team to be self funded and longer term generate revenue for other programs. The CSA is blowing the opportunity, in epic fashion.

 

 

[ensco]

Without reference to the "how" of how we got here, the tortured history and competing interests that underlies this, the "what" is obvious: we need to break this.

The unpaid/underpaid thing for the President is particularly dysfunctional. That is just an incentive for the president to have conflicts, declared and undeclared, as he/she can use his/her position to curry favour with people who can provide things (jobs, opportunities) to the President either outside the structure or after the President leaves office. This problem is hardly new and hardly unique to soccer.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulatory_capture

Regulatory capture is why we pay so much for cell service in this country, as federal regulators repeatedly get hired by Bell/Rogers for 5x their government salaries, btw.

"President" is an executive role, not a board or oversight role. (Chairman, that would be different.) The president of the CSA is running a complicated business generating $25M a year, and negotiating deals whose total value could be many times that. That should be someone found with the help of a search firm (I agree with others that most of the names proposed don't make sense, this should most likely be a business person that few will have heard of). That person should also be making a hell of a lot more than $150K. Price of eggs for this position is something like $750K, maybe more, because that's still half what the right person would make in private life.

 

[Greatest Cockney Rip Off]

18 minutes ago, ag futbol said:

The big picture is this: the CSA is in charge of a lot of different things and given all that is going on, it is inappropriate for the leader of the organization to be an unpaid volunteer.

Having worked for non for profits much bigger than the CSA, this isnt unusual or inappropriate. I could care less if Bontis takes the fall as he is the figurehead leader and he seems like a dick but he has the same amount of input as the other board members when it comes to voting on matters. I'm more concerned about Earl Cochrane who is responsible for the running of the CSA as the general secretary (basically the CEO equivalent.). 

[Greatest Cockney Rip Off]

11 minutes ago, ensco said:

 

"President" is an executive role, not a board or oversight role. (Chairman, that would be different.)

 

The CSA bylaws state differently. 
 

10.01 General Secretary
i. The General Secretary is the chief executive of Canada Soccer and shall be appointed by the Board.

[ag futbol]

10 minutes ago, Greatest Cockney Rip Off said:

Having worked for non for profits much bigger than the CSA, this isnt unusual or inappropriate. I could care less if Bontis takes the fall as he is the figurehead leader and he seems like a dick but he has the same amount of input as the other board members when it comes to voting on matters. I'm more concerned about Earl Cochrane who is responsible for the running of the CSA as the general secretary (basically the CEO equivalent.). 

I wholeheartedly disagree. To the extent it is normal, it is in no way appropriate. ENSCO has outlined some of the reasons above. 
 

 

 

[Greatest Cockney Rip Off]

7 minutes ago, ag futbol said:

I wholeheartedly disagree. To the extent it is normal, it is in no way appropriate. ENSCO has outlined some of the reasons above. 
 

 

 

That argument is flawed as it has the CSA president is the equivalent of a CEO but that is Earl Cochrane’s position as the general secretary. 
 

I don’t have a clue about the private section but in non for profits,  Presidents are usually non executive roles that sit on boards as a voluntary position. 

[SF]

The CSA is registered as a not for profit enterprise.  There are no rules against paying directors of NPOs, but it would be well outside the mainstream and, in theory, could cast doubt on its NPO tax status.  Unless it wants to be a for-profit enterprise, but that is a different discussion. 

I have chaired several NPOs and am a designated corporate director.  My sense, without being inside the walls, is that the CSA has always struggled to understand the difference between a governance board and a more active/operational board.  The CSA, emphatically, needs to be a governance board and the day to day operations (including media rights, player compensation, etc.) should fall under the immediate purview of the management team.  The Boards role is to agree the strategic direction and hold the management team to account.

The President (title should be Chair, by the way) role seems to straddle both sides of this and that is a governance "no-no" for this type of organization.  There will be a unique history that gets us here. but any review of the model needs to address this matter.

In the end, we're left with a dysfunctional organization and, frankly, the outcome - given the governance model - was always predictable.  

[Greatest Cockney Rip Off]

3 minutes ago, SF said:

 

The President (title should be Chair, by the way) 

I think this title come from British influence on the formation of the CSA as this role is the UK is referred to as president. 

[ensco]

30 minutes ago, Greatest Cockney Rip Off said:

The CSA bylaws state differently. 
 

10.01 General Secretary
i. The General Secretary is the chief executive of Canada Soccer and shall be appointed by the Board.

Weird. Helpful. Thanks.

What is unhelpful, needs to be called out and stopped, is that Bontis needs to stop publicly asserting a management leadership role that he does not have. All those appearances on Sportsnet and on the NF podcast are grandstanding. He is filling the vacuum created by having the General Secretary role be vacant, and abusing the (in this particluar case) misleading title of President. Somebody on that board needs to have the balls to tell him to sit down.

Anyone know what that General Secretary role pays? To my point above re potential issues if he/she is underpaid...

Bontis also needs to be Chairman not President, ASAP.

Also, WTF is the CSA doing using the nomenclature of the Soviet Union and China at the top of its executive structure?

Edited June 9, 2022 by ensco

[Greatest Cockney Rip Off]

8 minutes ago, ensco said:

Weird. Helpful. Thanks.

What is unhelpful, needs to be called out and stopped, is that Bontis needs to stop publicly asserting a management leadership role that he does not have. All those appearances on Sportsnet and on the NF podcast are grandstanding. He is filling the vacuum created by having the General Secretary role be vacant, and abusing the (in this particluar case) misleading title of President. Somebody on that board needs to have the balls to tell him to sit down.

Anyone know what that General Secretary role pays? To my point above re potential issues if he/she is underpaid...

Bontis also needs to be Chairman not President, ASAP.

Also, WTF is the CSA doing using the nomenclature of the Soviet Union and China at the top of its executive structure?

I think of all of the backward messed up stuff at the CSA, using the title of “president” is at the bottom list of things to fix. it is actually a British nomenclature that been used for 100s of years.

 

[ag futbol]

26 minutes ago, Greatest Cockney Rip Off said:

That argument is flawed as it has the CSA president is the equivalent of a CEO but that is Earl Cochrane’s position as the general secretary. 
 

I don’t have a clue about the private section but in non for profits,  Presidents are usually non executive roles that sit on boards as a voluntary position. 

Tell me something, who has been the public face of this organization for the last 12-months+? Who is leading the charge with players? Stood up first in the presser? Talks about all the CSA’s plans?

Whatever you believe or the CSA has portrayed as the role of a Bontis, looks nothing like what is happening in practice. Bontis very much looks like the de-facto #1 here, in a CEO type fashion, regardless of what the role says on paper.

Maybe you’ve been in some situations with NFP’s that have more revenue than the CSA who have survived with unpaid person in this position or as CEO. I can only suggest that it’s either 1) not as functional as you believe it to be, or 2) there are strategic or personal reasons why these organizations can draw talent whereas the CSA cannot.

Either way, it seems like this isn’t working. I think we can agree on that at least.

Edited June 9, 2022 by ag futbol

[shorty]

44 minutes ago, Greatest Cockney Rip Off said:

The CSA bylaws state differently. 
 

10.01 General Secretary
i. The General Secretary is the chief executive of Canada Soccer and shall be appointed by the Board.

Ok, so I’m getting a clearer picture of the structure (thank you to all those gleaming bits from the Bylaws etc). Since I understand educational governance, it sounds like General Secretary = Superintendent of the School (top employee and CEO) District and President (ie Bontis) = School Board Chair. Where it might differ is that any member of the public can run for school board trustee and then the Chair is elected from within the ranks of those elected.  Is that similar? Who is eligible to run for the board of the CSA? I also served as local president for three years for the teachers and any member of the association was eligible to put their name forward — is that the same with the CSA? If so, how is membership determined? If not, who are the eligible pool of candidates? Is the CSA president elected directly to the position or from within the board? Why have a global search to headhunt an elected position? I’m feeling confused right now, and I usually feel pretty confident at understanding governance models…

[shorty]

Although I will say this: in my experience in education you see all sorts of power dynamics, regardless of what SHOULD be true in statute. In my district every superintendent I worked with understood their role very well. They are the educational leader but as an employee they advise the board on direction, and do not have the last word. They implement the directions that come from the Board. However I know from other local presidents around the province that some Superintendents would take advantage of inexperienced Boards and effectively usurp the role of elected officials. 
 

I'm really (morbidly) curious about how it all works at the CSA behind closed doors…

[Greatest Cockney Rip Off]

55 minutes ago, ag futbol said:

Tell me something, who has been the public face of this organization for the last 12-months+? Who is leading the charge with players? Stood up first in the presser? Talks about all the CSA’s plans?

Whatever you believe or the CSA has portrayed as the role of a Bontis, looks nothing like what is happening in practice. Bontis very much looks like the de-facto #1 here, in a CEO type fashion, regardless of what the role says on paper.

Maybe you’ve been in some situations with NFP’s that have more revenue than the CSA who have survived with unpaid person in this position or as CEO. I can only suggest that it’s either 1) not as functional as you believe it to be, or 2) there are strategic or personal reasons why these organizations can draw talent whereas the CSA cannot.

Either way, it seems like this isn’t working. I think we can agree on that at least.

As president, Bontis’ role is to be the public face of the CSA and he is shit at it. Why they would ever elect someone who has a history of being anti labour as president is beyond me. But he is just a figurehead. He has the same voting rights as other board members, as far as I can see the only difference between president and a regular board member is that he chairs meetings, is the the public face of the CSA and he liaises with other bodies. 
 

As for non for profits, the president role isn’t instead of a CEO, it is a role as well as having a CEO. CEOs are always paid as are other executives but board members or presidents (chairs or what ever you want to call them) are volunteers. They set the direction and let the staff do the work. The CSA is structured the same. Earl Cochrane is the “CEO” of the CSA (let that sink in). The nomenclature may be different for you but this is how they are set up. 

Edited June 9, 2022 by Greatest Cockney Rip Off

[SF]

57 minutes ago, Greatest Cockney Rip Off said:

I think this title come from British influence on the formation of the CSA as this role is the UK is referred to as president. 

My well be and, in the end, a title is a title. 

In North American parlance the title President implies a day to day role which, in a properly governed organization, would not be the case for the lead director. 

You do see "Executive Chair" titles, but what the CSA needs is a high performing "CEO" and a Board, led by its Chair, that keeps the CEO on track.