Canadian Soccer Business (CSB)

[prairiecanuck]

I mean Bob Young is part of the CSB.  He's a billionaire. He's also a tremendously philanthropic individual.  He does a ton of charity work.  The call him honest Bob for a reason.  I have a hard time buying the CSB are a bunch of unscrupulous business people when Bob Young is involved.  I'm not suggesting most are saying they are unscrupulous, but that's been floated out there by a few people on social media.  

[RS]

15 minutes ago, MauditYvon said:

We qualified because of COVID.

Yes, I fondly remember that jaw-dropping goal that COVID scored to put Canada over the top.

[Razcal]

35 minutes ago, RS said:

Yes, I fondly remember that jaw-dropping goal that COVID scored to put Canada over the top.

I think it's a fair comment.

If it weren't for covid we would have been playing a bunch of games as one of the other teams(after the top 6), and the best we could have hoped for was a home and home against the 4th place team from the hex, followed by an intercontinental playoff.

[Cheeta]

^ LOL.  Sounds like a tedious milk run to the finals for this group.  Less risky but less fun too I'd guess.

Don't think the destination would change one jot.

[kacbru]

Based on my limited understanding:

1) CSB is essentially a vulture capitalist that saw an nearly dying and incompetent entity (the CSA) and identified an opportunity over the long term.  They had more faith in Canadian soccer than the CSA did.  CSA has never been able to think beyond the present, so when someone waved some guaranteed money in front of them, they grasped it and laughed all the way back to Metcalf Street.  Someone should have negotiated a better risk/reward contract associated with qualifying for Qatar.

2) Players are upset that they won't see what they view as their share of the WC windfall.  But it has been signed away.  They also (in part because they are a rotating cast of characters) did not think long term (i.e. Qatar qualification was not on the horizon in 2018) and they can be rightly upset, but have nothing to stand on.  In many ways, they are similar to the fans in terms of being in the dark.  But it just comes across as being greedy to demand that the future of soccer in Canada is crippled to accommodate paying them all of the prize money, because in doing so, they are harming the potential of future CMNT players.

3) CPL fans benefit, as it likely wouldn't exist without the deal, and CMNT fans have benefited in terms of better coverage of the games.  Vancouver fans with tickets to Panama game got absolutely screwed.

In my mind, the CSA has CSA'd itself.  They have been and continue to be incompetent.  They should have brought the players (both men and women) up to speed on the negotiations with CSB.  They should have had more faith in the programme and its potential for success.  They should have negotiated provisions that deal with expected/unexpected windfalls.  The players can be upset, but they should understand that there is nothing to give here, it has already been given away.  It is a bad look to make the fans pay for what they are upset with the CSA for. But the CSA absolutely failed by not being transparent about what it has given away and what it got in return.

There is actually a similar issue in NZ with the sale of All-blacks to private equity firm Silver Lake for $330M - https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/128842333/silver-lake-this-is-new-zealand-rugbys-silver-bazooka-to-try-to-save-a-troubled-game .  It has generated lots of debate, but at least it has been much more transparent with fans, players, management, etc. all involved.

[SpursFlu]

What's the old joke about the American and Canadian fisherman standing on a dock, both with a bucket full of crabs. The American fisherman says to the Canadian "hey you better put a lid on your bucket those crabs are gonna climb out" Canadian says  "nah don't worry about it, those are Canadian crabs"

I hope everyone are enjoying themselves 

Edited June 7, 2022 by SpursFlu

[TOcanadafan]

59 minutes ago, kacbru said:

2) Players are upset that they won't see what they view as their share of the WC windfall.  But it has been signed away.  They also (in part because they are a rotating cast of characters) did not think long term (i.e. Qatar qualification was not on the horizon in 2018) and they can be rightly upset, but have nothing to stand on. 

Naive questions… did the players sign off on this?  Isn’t this just a deal between the CSA and CSB?  Do the players have actual representation on the CSA board?

[MauditYvon]

They have nada as representation and clearly don’t know how to properly set it.

[prairiecanuck]

1 hour ago, TOcanadafan said:

Naive questions… did the players sign off on this?  Isn’t this just a deal between the CSA and CSB?  Do the players have actual representation on the CSA board?

The CSB does not receive a penny of the 10 mil prize pool.  The pool in it's entirety will go into the CSA coffers.  They are just offering 60%.  30 to the women.  30 to the men.   The men will also receive 50% of the women's world cup prize pool.  That pool has doubled from 30 to 60 mil.  If the women somehow won that the world cup they could actually bring in a sizeable amount that the men would split 6 or 7 mil. 

The other 40% goes to pay for friendlies the CSA schedules that do not happen.

[Kent]

4 hours ago, MauditYvon said:

True, got it wrong (because CSB sold the rights to mediapro in 2019?).

Still a bad deal, 0 vision. Of course CSA and Canadians were losing for years 2022-2029 (7 of a 10 years deal, 70%).

No "of course" about it. When the deal was signed in 2018, Canada's most recent result was losing to Jamaica in the quarter finals of the Gold Cup after finishing behind Costa Rica in the group. So at that moment the most optimistic yet somewhat reasonable scenario would have Canada at best 4th best, behind USA, Mexico, Costa Rica, and Jamaica. More realistically likely further down than that. It was less than 5 months ago that we finally got a win in Central America. There was a very, very, real possibility we wouldn't be able to survive World Cup Qualifying going through Central America... yet again.

In 2019 when the original World Cup qualifying format was announced we were staring at a potential qualifying cycle where the best case scenario was to get into the inter-continental playoff, and not having any games against the top 5 teams in CONCACAF (so no games against USA, Mexico, Costa Rica, Honduras, or El Salvador). Our best possible opposition would be Panama, Jamaica, and New Zealand, with most games against much smaller nations. Those would probably be less likely to draw the viewer numbers the Oct matches drew.

Even for the 2022 to 2026 years, it's important to remember that this deal does not include the World Cup broadcasting rights in 2022 or 2026. Also, if we are given an automatic spot in 2026, that will mean no World Cup Qualifiers to bring eyeballs to broadcasts. We have yet to see if the interest the national team has gained will translate to Nations League and the Gold Cup. Early indications give the impression that the Curacao and Honduras Nations League games are afterthoughts compared to the Iran and Panama friendlies.

[An Observer]

7 hours ago, Razcal said:

I think it's a fair comment.

If it weren't for covid we would have been playing a bunch of games as one of the other teams(after the top 6), and the best we could have hoped for was a home and home against the 4th place team from the hex, followed by an intercontinental playoff.

Yes, that is true but just goes to show how flawed that format was as we finished top of the group and Panama finished 5h and was in it until the last couple of games. Both of us would have been on the outside looking in and playing for the spot to play the 4th place team in a playoff, just to play NZ to get in.  The issue wasn't Covid created an easy path for us but that it simply allowed for the rectification of a terrible format.

[ted]

16 hours ago, kacbru said:

Based on my limited understanding:

1) CSB is essentially a vulture capitalist that saw an nearly dying and incompetent entity (the CSA) and identified an opportunity over the long term. 

Your understanding is clearly limited. The CSA helped to create CSB and were originally supposed to be a shareholder in it (honestly not sure if that ended up being the case). 

 

14 hours ago, prairiecanuck said:

The CSB does not receive a penny of the 10 mil prize pool.  The pool in it's entirety will go into the CSA coffers.

This is what drives me crazy about the deflection from the CSA and those who are swallowing this BS whole. I would also add that not only does CSB not get any of that $$ but they also don't get any of the other prize pool $$ that may be earned by THE PLAYERS ON THE PITCH.

There may be issues with CSB and transparency is good, but it's not the CSB that fucked up here.

#BontisOut

[Bison44]

20 minutes ago, ted said:

This is what drives me crazy about the deflection from the CSA and those who are swallowing this BS whole. I would also add that not only does CSB not get any of that $$ but they also don't get any of the other prize pool $$ that may be earned by THE PLAYERS ON THE PITCH.

There may be issues with CSB and transparency is good, but it's not the CSB that fucked up here.

#BontisOut

TED....maybe you can clear this up, because there are plenty of guys on here saying the exact opposite, that CSB is getting a cut of the prize pool.  Where would you get the info to clear this up one way or the other?? This isnt like the usual i think Altidore is washed up opinion disagreement....there should be real black and white proof eh??  

[Ivan]

@prairiecanuck and @Ted, I agree with your line of thinking on this, but are you guys sure (know for a fact) that the CSB doesn't get any of the prize money?  If not, I don't understand why the players would name them in their Dear Canada letter.  To add, I have nothing against the CSB and don't think they have done anything wrong.

Edited June 7, 2022 by Ivan
Same time post as Bison44

[SpecialK]

14 minutes ago, Ivan said:

@prairiecanuck and @Ted, I agree with your line of thinking on this, but are you guys sure (know for a fact) that the CSB doesn't get any of the prize money?  If not, I don't understand why the players would name them in their Dear Canada letter.  To add, I have nothing against the CSB and don't think they have done anything wrong.

Because the CSA is saying they need the prize money to survive. Players are saying where is your revenue streams for other things. Oh wait the CSB took all the revenue streams and your only getting 3 million dollars 

Edited June 7, 2022 by SpecialK

[Ivan]

3 minutes ago, SpecialK said:

Because the CSA is saying they need the prize money to survive. Players are saying where is your revenue streams for other things. Oh wait the CSB took all the revenge streams and your only getting 3 million dollars 

I guess that's possible, along with the fact that Herdman was also excited about the money and one would think that he would know the inner workings of the CSB deal.  Okay, I'm starting to believe!😄

[SpecialK]

4 minutes ago, Ivan said:

I guess that's possible, along with the fact that Herdman was also excited about the money and one would think that he would know the inner workings of the CSB deal.  Okay, I'm starting to believe!😄

Well I think herdman is tired of doing the CSB and CSA job and begging for money. I bet though  now he doesn’t give shit, he’s leaving this gong show after this World Cup. 

[SpursFlu]

Dear Canada

We're just a bunch of fun, young athletes with no money. We're not a bunch of evil business men in a boardroom pretending to build soccer facilities and create a Canadian soccer league. If you don't believe we're the good guys check our social media. We play video games, binge watch Netflix and do funny dances just like you do. Does Nick Bontis do funny dances? No. He's a an evil capitalist and I bet he doesn't even believe in climate change. They're screwups. Always have been.

Signed,

CMNT

[Mattd97]

3 minutes ago, SpursFlu said:

Dear Canada

We're just a bunch of fun, young athletes with no money. We're not a bunch of evil business men in a boardroom pretending to build soccer facilities and create a Canadian soccer league. If you don't believe we're the good guys check our social media. We play video games, binge watch Netflix and do funny dances just like you do. Does Nick Bontis do funny dances? No. He's a an evil capitalist and I bet he doesn't even believe in climate change. They're screwups. Always have been.

Signed,

CMNT

Youve got more stamina than i wouldve guessed.  Most people wouldve tired themselves out at this point and went for a walk or something

[El Diego]

4 minutes ago, SpursFlu said:

Dear Canada

We're just a bunch of fun, young athletes with no money. We're not a bunch of evil business men in a boardroom pretending to build soccer facilities and create a Canadian soccer league. If you don't believe we're the good guys check our social media. We play video games, binge watch Netflix and do funny dances just like you do. Does Nick Bontis do funny dances? No. He's a an evil capitalist and I bet he doesn't even believe in climate change. They're screwups. Always have been.

Signed,

CMNT

Have you ever actually added anything substantial to a discussion? People don't dislike your posts because you have a different opinion, they dislike them because they offer nothing.

[Bison44]

Wait...we can dislike posts??  Is there a button for that??

[Aird25]

19 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

Wait...we can dislike posts??  Is there a button for that??

That would be all together too useful

[SpursFlu]

29 minutes ago, El Diego said:

Have you ever actually added anything substantial to a discussion? People don't dislike your posts because you have a different opinion, they dislike them because they offer nothing.

What about the time I said Koleosho flew all the way to Vancouver just to bag an Earls server at Junior Hoilett's birthday party? How can that not be considered adding something substantial?

[Aird25]

So, do we have a corrupt FA, greedy men, greedy women, or all the above? This is confusing

[red card]