Canadian Soccer Business (CSB)

[nfitz]

14 hours ago, SpursFlu said:

The story is the CPL kicked Mediapro to curb because they're deadbeats who stopped paying their bills and the CPL and the CSA is about to announce new media partners 

That would require a degree of competence and foreplanning that had previously always alluded the CSA. Hey, perhaps I'm wrong, and the new general secretary Walker is really on the ball so quickly and completely.

Personally, I think the outcome is that CPL is already a dead person walking. And if it does survive, it's not going to be as high a quality of play, slipping to a semi-professional level.

And TV coverage will become a lot more scarce - kind of what Ontario League One gets.

Edited January 27 by nfitz

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

11 minutes ago, nfitz said:

...Personally, I think the outcome is that CPL is already dead a dead person walking...

Think it's OK to say dead man walking given they did diddlysquat on forming a women's D1 pro league. With only eight clubs they are one club folding from an existential crisis, so I guess it's a bit of a Mexican standoff right now for them as they eye the loot that Victor Montagliani connived to hand over to them in 2026 but at the same time likely realize that heading for the exit could be the rational move.

[RS]

28 minutes ago, nfitz said:

Hey, perhaps I'm wrong, and the new general secretary Walker is really on the ball so quickly and completely.

[Watchmen]

35 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

I actually tend to agree with this ^^^. 
 

I think it would be pretty standard practice when getting  nailed for breaching contract (MP not paying CSB in 2023) to counter sue in an effort to shift blame and start mounting your defence.  That doesn’t mean there is truth to it.

I'm sure they'll settle it behind closed doors and we'll never really find out.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

If Mediapro Canada have closed up shop and Mediapro have exited Canada who would CSB even collect from if they won the court case? Think the sequence of events was Hong Kong investors oust Onesoccer's champion from the Mediapro board back in October, Mediapro then decide to pull the plug on their CanPL involvement, CSB try the legal action route to try to force them to stay but Mediapro are unphased and leave anyway, Alysson Walker finds out this is all going on and quits.

[masster]

1 hour ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Think it's OK to say dead man walking given they did diddlysquat on forming a women's D1 pro league. With only eight clubs they are one club folding from an existential crisis, so I guess it's a bit of a Mexican standoff right now for them as they eye the loot that Victor Montagliani connived to hand over to them in 2026 but at the same time likely realize that heading for the exit could be the rational move.

I know for a fact this is incorrect. Lots of work was going on by CPL owners behind the scenes to establish a women's league. But then Matheson's premature announcement with the help of the Whitecaps (who were only too willing to kneecap a CPL initiative) stole the headlines and made for an impossible PR scenario. Competing against an ex-CWNT player would have not gone down well in the public eye.

Things have been rather quiet on this front, so I hope that positive collaborative talks are going on behind the scenes.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

Think it says all that needs to be said that present and former CWNT players do not agree with that narrative.

[narduch]

2 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

If Mediapro Canada have closed up shop and Mediapro have exited Canada who would CSB even collect from if they won the court case? Think the sequence of events was Hong Kong investors oust Onesoccer's champion from the Mediapro board back in October, Mediapro then decide to pull the plug on their CanPL involvement, CSB try the legal action route to try to force them to stay but Mediapro are unphased and leave anyway, Alysson Walker finds out this is all going on and quits.

This is a pretty good theory except for how abrupt this all is.

Earlier this week One Soccer was still covering CPL news. 

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

The angle I find most interesting from the court documents is the number of guaranteed games:

...Mediapro alleged it signed a 10-year deal with CSB in 2019 and agreed to pay $87M to produce and broadcast a minimum of 2,042 CPL and Canadian Championship games through 2028...

With an 8 club 28 game season format you are looking at 8 × 14 = 112 and with maybe 15  Canadian Championship games plus playoffs that gets you to just over 130, while they signed on the dotted line for a minimum of just over 204 games on average over the ten seasons.

You likely need over 12 clubs participating on average to hit that minimum number of games so if those were the terms a 16 club league was likely very much anticipated by 2028 all presumably with the 8000 to 12000 seats in an expandable format requirement met that led to Wilfred Laurier University's stadium in Waterloo being rejected for a franchise launch for the former PDL ownership group in K-W and led to participation being viewed as completely unfeasible in a London, Ont context where FC London's owner was concerned.

Having sky high expectations in terms of PR rhetoric is one thing but writing it into a broadcasting contract as a minimum expectation would be another matter entirely and very much in space cadet territory. It's all very well for the likes of Craig Forrest, Sid Seixeiro and Steven Sandor to criticize what happened now but why were Canadian soccer media insiders not pointing out how borderline lunatic this all was back around 2018 and 2019? And let's not forget the attempts that were made to use this forum to provide a sycophantic echo chamber to cheerlead what was unfolding.

Edited January 27 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[CanadaFan123]

5 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

...and all this over a league with playing standards roughly comparable to the 5th and 6th tiers in England. Very much watchable for hardcore soccer fans from Canada but not something that was ever going to be marketable on a global scale so what were these guys thinking on both sides of this agreement? Let's burn through closing in on $200 million combined on soccer comparable to Boreham Wood vs Wealdstone. Fiasco doesn't even begin to adequately describe that.

Does the 5th/6th tier English broadcaster also have rights to the English national team? Another disingenuous take.

Let’s not pretend that money was all for CPL. The men’s and women’s team are the largest products by far. In that context that’s not a lot of money - Davies and Sinclair alone are arguably the two most well known Canadian athletes male and female on a global scale. 
 

There is a lot of money to be made on Canadian soccer. We didn’t just go through our best 3 years interest wise to then go down the drain - you would have to be an absolute fool to not realize there are much bigger things at play. 
 

People want to clown on the flu man, but there is some truth to the fact that Westhead serves a role IMO. Sow discontent and panic = better negotiating position. You would have to be a fool to not realize these companies are playing chess not checkers.

Edited January 27 by CanadaFan123

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

19 minutes ago, CanadaFan123 said:

Does the 5th/6th tier English broadcaster also have rights to the English national team? Another disingenuous take...

Has the English FA ever had to pay Sky Sports (or whoever) to broadcast its national team games like the CSA routinely had to with TSN and Rogers Sportsnet before CSB and Mediapro arrived on the scene? Are you sure I am the one who is being disingenuous? The national team broadcast rights were a financial liability that CSB took on because CanPL complete with Boreham Wood vs Wealdstone quality soccer was supposed (in their minds anyway) to transform that situation.

The lucrative part of what the CSA handed over was not the broadcast rights but national team related sponsorship deals in the run up to 2026. That was designed to be a way for the CSB investors to recoup some of their losses at the expense of other stakeholders that the CSA are supposed to represent like the CMNT and CWNT players. That ultimately led to the Panama friendly strike when qualification for Qatar brought the details of the CSB deal with the CSA out into the open four years sooner than anticipated.

Edited January 27 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[narduch]

When they made the deal the National Teams weren't lucrative either.

They sold a package of content.

The National teams only became interesting to the traditional broadcasters thanks to the World Cup qualifying run.

Edited January 27 by narduch

[Snowcrash]

10 hours ago, RS said:

It seems very hard to use, for some.

It's not the internet.  It's the personality types that are disproportionately  attracted to and dominate the internet.

[CanadaFan123]

2 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Has the English FA ever had to pay Sky Sports (or whoever) to broadcast its national team games like the CSA routinely had to with TSN and Rogers Sportsnet before CSB and Mediapro arrived on the scene? Are you sure I am the one who is being disingenuous? The national team broadcast rights were a financial liability that CSB took on because CanPL complete with Boreham Wood vs Wealdstone quality soccer was supposed (in their minds anyway) to transform that situation.

The lucrative part of what the CSA handed over was not the broadcast rights but national team related sponsorship deals in the run up to 2026. That was designed to be a way for the CSB investors to recoup some of their losses at the expense of other stakeholders that the CSA are supposed to represent like the CMNT and CWNT players. That ultimately led to the Panama friendly strike when qualification for Qatar brought the details of the CSB deal with the CSA out into the open four years sooner than anticipated.

Again, yes. That was a time before the national teams reached their current statuses. You’re exhausting. 

[Cheeta]

10 hours ago, SpursFlu said:

In the last 5 years the CSA has started a successful professional league from scratch, made the men's world cup for the first time in 35 years. Won the women's Olympic Gold. If that's a tragic comedy, then sign me up for another 5 years of a tragic comedy 

Thought we were refering to the unscheduled friendly against Iran, and the subsequent labour action by the players which left 60,000 ticket holders less than entertained and the CSA having to dole out cash to foreign federations all because they hadn't settled, and haven't setted, terms of compensation to the players. 

Seen that play.  Once is enough for me.  

[Cheeta]

Anyone know what the CSB's responsibilities to the CSA are?  

Have it in my head they pay $3M annually to the CSA, or there abouts.  But I'm sure they have other commitments as well.  Getting matches on the air, that sort of thing.  This dispute with Mediapro could make it very difficult for CSB to meet it's obligations to their agreement with the CSA.  At the least they'd have to be more financially difficult to achieve.   

What about sponsor terms?  I'm sure they all have advertising targets built into their agreements. If OneSoccer is DOA where does VISA get its advert time from?  Not OneSoccer Today that's for sure.

All these gears spinning in the machine with a loose spanner bouncing around inside just looking to land in the right spot and lock it all up, dead.  

Good times.  

[Califax]

I went to bed early and this thread got spicy. 🌶️ 

 

[Califax]

The irony is that Sportsnet and TSN - with a minimal amount of marketing that they weren’t willing to do- could’ve made the men’s and women’s national teams exciting to their viewers, while onesoccer centred their whole network around marketing the men’s and women’s national teams within an inch of its life and because nobody liked their service, they weren’t able to attract viewers. 
 

 

[Mihairokov]

2 minutes ago, Califax said:

The irony is that Sportsnet and TSN - with a minimal amount of marketing that they weren’t willing to do- could’ve made the men’s and women’s national teams exciting to their viewers, while onesoccer centred their whole network around marketing the men’s and women’s national teams within an inch of its life and because nobody liked their service, they weren’t able to attract viewers. 
 

 

You're conflating two different things - quality of broadcast and total audience reach. A team doesn't become more or less exciting based on number of viewers unless you're looking at the event through the scope of media clicks, tweets, or other engagement items online. There was nothing inherently wrong with OS coverage of CMNT/CWNT aside from the fact that they weren't a legacy broadcaster like TSN/SN.

There was a time when CMNT was absolutely trash and TSN had to be dragged along to even show the matches. TSN's coverage of 1-8 Honduras wasn't exciting simply because it was on TSN.

I would much rather a service that tailors and caters to Canadian soccer than one that shoe-horns national team games in between bowling highlights and top 50 misplay re-runs.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

22 minutes ago, Cheeta said:

...If OneSoccer is DOA where does VISA get its advert time from?...

The absence of the anticipated number of eyeballs on CIBC branding would likely be the biggest issue right now given that appears to be the most lucrative deal judging by how every CanPL jersey has that logo on board. CSB could conceivably lose existing sponsorship deals over failing to meet the terms of contracts signed or at the very least receive less money than originally anticipated. That means it likely would be very much in their interests to have all their games streamed or televised somehow this summer but how do they do all the production for that with a season starting under three months from now without access to Mediapro Canada's six outside broadcast trucks and Onesoccer's studios?

[SpursFlu]

35 minutes ago, Mihairokov said:

You're conflating two different things - quality of broadcast and total audience reach. A team doesn't become more or less exciting based on number of viewers unless you're looking at the event through the scope of media clicks, tweets, or other engagement items online. There was nothing inherently wrong with OS coverage of CMNT/CWNT aside from the fact that they weren't a legacy broadcaster like TSN/SN.

There was a time when CMNT was absolutely trash and TSN had to be dragged along to even show the matches. TSN's coverage of 1-8 Honduras wasn't exciting simply because it was on TSN.

I would much rather a service that tailors and caters to Canadian soccer than one that shoe-horns national team games in between bowling highlights and top 50 misplay re-runs.

This is a really good comment. People seem to be mad at someone because Onesoccer didn't produce enough revenue to be sustainable in Mediapros eyes based on their 20 million a year or whatever it was. Well Onesoccer was a product they produced and at the center of it was all things Canadian soccer. As a fan of all things Canada soccer I thought it was amazing top to bottom. The problem was that you then take that product and you create revenue anyway you can by bringing in eye balls anyway you can. What they found out was that Canada is a fucked up place when it comes to media. 2 people control everything and the people who make the rules aren't willing to do much to change that. Mediapro and Onesoccer were not one of those 2 people. So I have no doubt we'll all have access to CPL, Voyageurs Cup, CMNT etc.. im just waiting to see the quality of the coverage and extend of the coverage because I thought Onesoccer was amazing. You could put CPL on TSN tomorrow and the coverage for people like us wouldn't be as good but it would immediately be hugely beneficial to the health of the league. You couldn't of asked for much more from Onesoccer and if 1 person or 1 million people were watching it doesn't change that

[SpursFlu]

1 hour ago, Cheeta said:

Thought we were refering to the unscheduled friendly against Iran, and the subsequent labour action by the players which left 60,000 ticket holders less than entertained and the CSA having to dole out cash to foreign federations all because they hadn't settled, and haven't setted, terms of compensation to the players. 

Seen that play.  Once is enough for me.  

"Labour action" lol

You're preparing to go play at the World Cup for your national team. 

You don't work on the assembly line at the box factory. You get paid a million bucks a year to kick a soccer ball at you're actual job not your national team

Labour action... That's hilarious. How's that "labour action" coming along?

Edited January 27 by SpursFlu

[Califax]

49 minutes ago, Mihairokov said:

You're conflating two different things - quality of broadcast and total audience reach. A team doesn't become more or less exciting based on number of viewers unless you're looking at the event through the scope of media clicks, tweets, or other engagement items online. There was nothing inherently wrong with OS coverage of CMNT/CWNT aside from the fact that they weren't a legacy broadcaster like TSN/SN.

There was a time when CMNT was absolutely trash and TSN had to be dragged along to even show the matches. TSN's coverage of 1-8 Honduras wasn't exciting simply because it was on TSN.

I would much rather a service that tailors and caters to Canadian soccer than one that shoe-horns national team games in between bowling highlights and top 50 misplay re-runs.

I’m not conflating, I just may not have explained it properly. 

Obviously if you compare two different eras one shit and one good, you’ll get different results.

I challenge you on the marketing. TSN took the WJHC and turned it into must see tv. It was an after thought tournament until they got their hands on it. Good marketing can inflate a mediocre product. 

If TSN cared about putting marketing dollars behind it, with their pulpit and platform, they could have created a massive buzz behind this run. 

Onesoccer could not even preemptively answer people’s question:  “where do I watch the games”, because their pulpit was dog poop. 

And I disagree with your last point. I’d far rather have games properly marketed, and available to the most people possible on par with major sports news, than a boutique pay for play channel with extra repetitive vignettes to kill time in 3 hour pre game show. 

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

8 minutes ago, Califax said:

...Onesoccer could not even preemptively answer people’s question:  “where do I watch the games”, because their pulpit was dog poop...

...so the World Cup qualifiers for Qatar wound up on Sportsnet as they would have done previously at the octagonal stage. In a similar sort of way, I don't think it's actually clear that every single CanPL game would have wound up only on Onesoccer in the manner it did, if TSN or Onesoccer had been willing to hand over a significant rights fee to Mediapro for a game of the week type package.

[Aird25]

OneSoccer's mistake was covering Canadian soccer, and not the politics of Canadian soccer. It so often seems that's where the real interest lies

Edited January 27 by Aird25