Canadian Soccer Business (CSB)

[Kingston]

1 hour ago, Bison44 said:

You sure?  

Pretty sure, yep.

The CPL is great.  It is part of a huge upswing in Canadian soccer including the L1 leagues.  I have no doubt that the CPL will play a role in our future World Cup campaigns and make great contributions to Canadian soccer.  It did not, however, contribute to our qualifying this time.

[Aird25]

I don't think this is the knock on the league that some of you seem to think it is. If it had existed, Canada's squad would have been filled with CPL players not that long ago. For ages we often boasted a significant amount of players from Unattached FC. We just happen to have our strongest squad ever at the moment. I don't think that happens without all of the investment in the game from various avenues. There's no way our national team players don't understand this either. The vast majority of them got their professional starts outside of Canada and many have spoken about that fact in the past. I suspect the future will be different 

[narduch]

1 minute ago, Aird25 said:

I don't think this is the knock on the league that some of you seem to think it is. If it had existed, Canada's squad would have been filled with CPL players not that long ago. For ages we often boasted a significant amount of players from Unattached FC. We just happen to have our strongest squad ever at the moment. I don't think that happens without all of the investment in the game from various avenues. There's no way our national team players don't understand this either. The vast majority of them got their professional starts outside of Canada and many have spoken about that fact in the past. I suspect the future will be different 

As I mentioned earlier, 2 CanMNT players were at the Forge game last weekend. Sam Adekugbe`s brother plays in the league. Eustaquio`s brother played in the league and is now a coach in the league. I doubt these guys hate CPL like the Bird Man tries to imply.

 

[Unnamed Trialist]

The Bid Book prepared jointly by US, Mexico and Canada, I believe from 2018, refers constantly to the existence of a league in Canada, projected to start in 2019. It also speaks of how the previous US World Cup helped drive MLS.

I heard it was a FIFA demand. Montigliani's interest was in part motivated by the project of a joint bid to justify the return of the WC to CONCACAF. The only thing new about the host proposal was Canada, but it could have fallen short without the CPL.

I'm not saying we would have lost the vote because the rival was "weak", but Morocco still garnered over a third of the vote. If they'd been able to say a candidate country didn't have a league they may not have won, but the vote would have been closer.

[Gian-Luca]

1 hour ago, Kingston said:

If applying to host helped get us the CPL, then good, I'm glad we got the CPL.  I doubt FIFA would make it a deal breaker, though.  See "Hosting the World Cup, USA, 1994" and "Launch of MLS, 1996".

But that's the historical precedent I was referring to - MLS was created as the result of US soccer's commitment made to FIFA around 1988 or 1989 (whenever the bid was awarded) to starting a professional league in return for being awarded the 1994 World Cup.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

Strange how Canada was able to host the Women's World Cup in 2015 if having a domestic pro league is so pivotal in FIFA policy terms. Doubt FIFA are dogmatic about it if there's more money to be made doing it that way. Zimbabwe were the other bidder for that tournament. No idea if they have a national women's league or not. Doubt it even mattered.

I'm willing to believe the CanPL project was critical to having a solo 2026 hosting bid that revolved largely around CFL stadia and at one point if media reports are to be believed involved hooking up with the NASL and Traffic Sports in some way possibly due to a shared distaste for MLS/SUM. A solo bid was definitely being worked on by the CSA prior to 2017.

Doubt the emergence or otherwise of CanPL would have made a blind bit of difference once the joint bid was agreed to because it was basically just a USSF bid by that point with a few games thrown Canada and Mexico's way to have them drop out as solo bidders. Why would soccer associations in Europe, South America, Africa and Asia etc even care about a Canadian domestic pro league angle when deciding how to vote?

[Bison44]

Speaking of disingenuous.  How many countries had womens leagues pre 2015 during the WC bidding process??  How many countries were even interested in hosting that WC??  The competition for the mens WC is cutthroat.  Apples and oranges, or should I say, horseshit and parrot droppings.  For a guy who loves canada soccer you are tieing yourself up into a pretzel trying to paint the CPL as irrelevant. 

 

[Unnamed Trialist]

4 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Strange how Canada was able to host the Women's World Cup in 2015 if having a domestic pro league is so pivotal in FIFA policy terms. Doubt FIFA are dogmatic about it if there's more money to be made doing it that way. Zimbabwe were the other bidder for that tournament. No idea if they have a national women's league or not. Doubt it even mattered.

I'm willing to believe the CanPL project was critical to having a solo 2026 hosting bid that revolved largely around CFL stadia and at one point if media reports are to be believed involved hooking up with the NASL and Traffic Sports in some way possibly due to a shared distaste for MLS/SUM. A solo bid was definitely being worked on by the CSA prior to 2017.

Doubt the emergence or otherwise of CanPL would have made a blind bit of difference once the joint bid was agreed to because it was basically just a USSF bid by that point with a few games thrown Canada and Mexico's way to have them drop out as solo bidders. Why would soccer associations in Europe, South America, Africa and Asia etc even care about a Canadian domestic pro league angle when deciding how to vote?

Those there are three weak, desperate arguments. I'm sorry, but if you don't believe FIFA put a league on the table then you haven't followed any of the process. It's documented.

But if you think a women's WC had comparable criteria you're being deliberately dishonest and discrediting your position. 

The USA could not have won alone anyways, CONCACAF doesn't have the FIFA votes and a US repeat after 30 years could easily have been met by a serious rival bid (a Netherlands-Belgium would have creamed it). If they seriously thought they could have gone it alone, they wouldn't have shifted to a triple host. They were told otherwise.

Here you have been arguing (or whimpering) for years that the CPL was irrationally shoehorned into the Canadian soccer landscape, at great risk, with so many inexplicables, then you refuse to recognize it happened the way it did, when it did, and was backed and funded as it was (Mediapro) for a reason: to justify, support, help, adorn and complement the 2026 bid.

Edited October 27, 2022 by Unnamed Trialist

[costarg]

Looking for an explanation please......

I keep seeing posts about how Canada needed a pro league to be considered as co-host for 2026.  How is MLS not considered being a valid Canadian league?  Our 3 major cities have teams (competitive teams!).  Even if we base it on population, the three teams are pretty equal to the US side of things.

Saying MLS doesn't count as a Canadian league is like saying NHL isn't really Canadian either. 

I haven't seen the contract or list of requirements, but this sounds a lot like a copy paste contract/list of requirements and was not really a requirement for Canada to fill specifically.  Could be wrong, but if I am, its totally ridiculous. 

[narduch]

3 teams doesn't really count as a league now does it?

Maybe the CSA shouldn't have made the promise in the Bid. Who knows. But they did.

[Unnamed Trialist]

17 minutes ago, narduch said:

3 teams doesn't really count as a league now does it?

Maybe the CSA shouldn't have made the promise in the Bid. Who knows. But they did.

The Bid Book mentions the 3 MLS teams all together just once, in the same breath (same paragraph) as the CSA helping initiate the women's league in the US and that the CPL was scheduled to begin in 2019. It is not used as a selling point and never do they say the MLS clubs equal or are worth a "league".

There are more references to the MLS teams' facilities, such as for training, than the clubs themselves.

The league is the CPL.

Edited October 28, 2022 by Unnamed Trialist

[MtlMario]

1 hour ago, costarg said:

 

Saying MLS doesn't count as a Canadian league is like saying NHL isn't really Canadian either. 

 

If you still think the NHL is a Canadian league you haven't noticed the commish is American, the head office is now in New York and there won't be another new team in Canada under no circumstances. They'll keep a team in the desert in a 5 k arena (temporary I know, 3 years) but forget about moving it to Quebec city, Hamilton or even T.O. could handle a second team.  BTW I would like to see the Canadian teams move into a real Canadian league but that will probably never happen as things stand in N.A. sports.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

1 hour ago, costarg said:

...How is MLS not considered being a valid Canadian league?  Our 3 major cities have teams (competitive teams!).  Even if we base it on population, the three teams are pretty equal to the US side of things...

Once something becomes wrapped up in nationalism some people will cease to be rational. It's worth noting that the three MLS teams are registered with the CSA rather than the USSF and compete in the Canadian Championship rather than the US Open Cup. They are an integral part of Canadian soccer in other words. It's not the same scenario as Cardiff, Swansea, Newport, Wrexham etc in Wales who are fully aligned with the FA of England rather than the FAW of Wales.

[costarg]

10 minutes ago, MtlMario said:

If you still think the NHL is a Canadian league you haven't noticed the commish is American, the head office is now in New York and there won't be another new team in Canada under no circumstances. They'll keep a team in the desert in a 5 k arena (temporary I know, 3 years) but forget about moving it to Quebec city, Hamilton or even T.O. could handle a second team.  BTW I would like to see the Canadian teams move into a real Canadian league but that will probably never happen as things stand in N.A. sports.

Absolutely, its not 100% Canadian, but it isn't not Canadian either.  NHL isn't purely an American league, just like MLS isn't just a USA league in my mind.  North America sharing leagues just makes sense.  I'm not a big supporter of Canada breaking from NHL or MLS.  I'm not pro USA in any way, but i'd rather have a local NFL, NBA or MLB  team than CFL.

[Kingston]

17 minutes ago, MtlMario said:

If you still think the NHL is a Canadian league you haven't noticed the commish is American, the head office is now in New York and there won't be another new team in Canada under no circumstances. They'll keep a team in the desert in a 5 k arena (temporary I know, 3 years) but forget about moving it to Quebec city, Hamilton or even T.O. could handle a second team.  BTW I would like to see the Canadian teams move into a real Canadian league but that will probably never happen as things stand in N.A. sports.

 

3 minutes ago, costarg said:

Absolutely, its not 100% Canadian, but it isn't not Canadian either.  NHL isn't purely an American league, just like MLS isn't just a USA league in my mind.  North America sharing leagues just makes sense.  I'm not a big supporter of Canada breaking from NHL or MLS.  I'm not pro USA in any way, but i'd rather have a local NFL, NBA or MLB  team than CFL.

The NHL is an oddity that way among the shared leagues. 

MLB and the NBA have only one Canadian team each while MLS has just three.  The leagues benefit from their Canadian team(s) but could live without them.

The NHL is closer to one-quarter Canadian and, frankly, the league wouldn't work at anything like its current level without the Canadian content.

[Gian-Luca]

If there was no Welsh league and Wales ever tried to host the World Cup , I can't see that they would point to having a couple of teams (Cardiff, Swansea) in the EPL or Championship as proof of them having a league of their own. That's even though there's a greater argument that those two teams can serve the needs of a small country the size of Wales than 3 Canadian teams separated a bajillion km from each other can serve the needs of a a country the size of Canada.

[VinceA]

https://canadasoccer.com/news/canada-soccer-canadian-premier-league-score-partner-in-degree/

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

24 minutes ago, Gian-Luca said:

If there was no Welsh league and Wales ever tried to host the World Cup , I can't see that they would point to having a couple of teams (Cardiff, Swansea) in the EPL or Championship as proof of them having a league of their own. That's even though there's a greater argument that those two teams can serve the needs of a small country the size of Wales than 3 Canadian teams separated a bajillion km from each other can serve the needs of a a country the size of Canada.

There is a Welsh league and they wouldn't be able to point to Cardiff City & Co because those clubs are not members of the FAW so no idea where you are even trying to go with that. In contrast, the three Canadian MLS teams are members of the CSA so they are an integral part of domestic Canadian soccer. The premier domestic title in Canadian soccer is the Canadian Championship in which they compete alongside the other eight D1 sanctioned Canadian clubs from CanPL. 

[Aird25]

20 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

The premier domestic title in Canadian soccer is the Canadian Championship

The very fact that you, of all people, consider this to be case kind of proves the point about MLS not being a Canadian league. Does it not?

[Gian-Luca]

4 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

There is a Welsh league and they wouldn't be able to point to Cardiff City & Co because those clubs are not members of the FAW so no idea where you are even trying to go with that. In contrast, the three Canadian MLS teams are members of the CSA so they are an integral part of domestic Canadian soccer. The premier domestic title in Canadian soccer is the Canadian Championship in which they compete alongside the other eight D1 sanctioned Canadian clubs from CanPL. 

Its quite obvious what my point is - it was asked why MLS isn't considered a Canadian league. The answer is the same way that the EPL isn't considered a Welsh league. The fact that Cardiff City & Co are not members of FAW is pure pedantry to this point. If you want to get further into pedantry, there is no league in Liechtenstein either, but they have 7 clubs who play in the Swiss leagues (most of which are in the 5th division), but all their clubs participate in the Liechtenstein Football Cup which is the premier domestic title in Liechtenstein and the equivalent to the Canadian championship. Yet, you don't hear people calling the Swiss league "The Liechtenstein League" or the "Swiss and Liechtenstein League" nor would that make it a "Liechtenstein League" in any real sense.

And I am perfectly well aware that there is a Welsh league, which is why I posted "If" as it was a deliberate hypothetical, since unlike Liechtenstein it is actually conceivable that they could co-host a World Cup with England and Scotland. Liechtenstein doesn't have a stadium remotely close to the capacity to co-host with anyone.

[Aird25]

39 minutes ago, VinceA said:

https://canadasoccer.com/news/canada-soccer-canadian-premier-league-score-partner-in-degree/

The comments to the tweet 😞 

 

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

Just now, Gian-Luca said:

...The fact that Cardiff City & Co are not members of FAW is pure pedantry to this point...

It really isn't. Welsh clubs in the English league system had to take legal action to avoid being forced into the League of Wales by the FAW. UEFA forced those clubs to stop playing in the Welsh Cup and to be aligned to the FA only as the compromise solution. In contrast CONCACAF and FIFA have allowed Canada to have its cake and eat it too where having a national league and also having the ability to have CSA affiliated clubs play in USSF sanctioned leagues is concerned.

Given the way Canada is treated as a special case by FIFA in that regard the whole we needed a national league for 2026 hosting to be possible thing seems like a dubious assertion at best. Can anyone point me to a document issued by FIFA that states explicitly that Canada had to do this?

[MtlMario]

2 hours ago, Kingston said:

 

and frankly, the league wouldn't work at anything like its current level without the Canadian content.

This I agree with 100%. But I also would not care if THEIR league would not work like its current level without our teams.

[Bison44]

11 minutes ago, Aird25 said:

The comments to the tweet😞 

Well there you go.  All the "I just read Westheads article, soccer is a joke and want to make fun of it" as per usual crowd is heard from.  I tell ya, all this crap and the usual parrot droppings are really sucking the life out of what should be a hugely exciting time.  Historic WC coming up for Canada fans, CPL final in a few days, Montreal being in the top tier of MLS playing lots of CDN and record numbers of CDN minutes in MLS.  I sure hope all this off field baloney isnt affecting the players the same way.  

[jonovision]

13 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

Well there you go.  All the "I just read Westheads article, soccer is a joke and want to make fun of it" as per usual crowd is heard from.  I tell ya, all this crap and the usual parrot droppings are really sucking the life out of what should be a hugely exciting time.  Historic WC coming up for Canada fans, CPL final in a few days, Montreal being in the top tier of MLS playing lots of CDN and record numbers of CDN minutes in MLS.  I sure hope all this off field baloney isnt affecting the players the same way.  

I suspect most of the players hardly pay any attention to it.