Canadian Soccer Business (CSB)

[Shway]

Like Floyd Mayweathter used to say, people pay to cheer me and some people to pay watch me lose. But at the end of the day they are all fans.

Thats the way I see his comments as. He knows a lot about the CPL than the average  poster here. 

He wants the league to succeed, but justs heavily scrutinizes it when the opportunity presents itself. 

Edited October 25, 2022 by Shway

[Aird25]

27 minutes ago, Shway said:

He wants the league to succeed

In this case, I find it incredibly hard to believe given Ozzie's track record. From what I've seen they've spent years undercutting anything lending even marginal support to a domestic league that extends beyond the Easton Report. I've honestly never seen anything like it before

Edited October 25, 2022 by Aird25

[sandman]

This is essentially the privatization of the CMNT. With business partners selected by the CSA directors, and president; with no open bidding process, or transparency. 

[DoyleG]

31 minutes ago, Aird25 said:

In this case, I find it incredibly hard to believe given Ozzie's track record. From what I've seen they've spent years undercutting anything lending even marginal support to a domestic league that extends beyond the Easton Report. I've honestly never seen anything like it before

I remember when the announcement about the CPL came out and he stated that it wasn't necessary because TFC won the MLS Cup. He felt that was justified continuing the misery that Canadian soccer was still going through at the time.

[DoyleG]

1 hour ago, Shway said:

Like Floyd Mayweathter used to say, people pay to cheer me and some people to pay watch me lose. But at the end of the day they are all fans.

Thats the way I see his comments as. He knows a lot about the CPL than the average  poster here. 

He wants the league to succeed, but justs heavily scrutinizes it when the opportunity presents itself. 

Ozzie the Parrot/BringBackTheBlizzard is nothing more than a toll. He's been like that for years, dumping on any domestic proposal. 

 

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

9 hours ago, Kent said:

 

Do you believe if the lower budget bus league that isn't L1C was started in place of the CPL in 2019 that it would have had a role in getting Canada to the 2022 World Cup? Or would it also be a waste of money and possibly time? ...

The second question is a non-sequitur relative to the first. There are many obvious reasons why having a Canadian pro league structure of some description would be a good thing that have nothing to do with World Cup qualification. The whole I care more about Canadian soccer than you do because I have blind unquestioning faith in Victor Montagliani's one true holy and apostolic domestic D1 soccer league posture is tiresome to say the least. The issue at hand is whether Victor Montagliani should have mortgaged the future revenues of the CMNT and CWNT for up to 20 years to help form a type of domestic pro league that a panel of experts tasked with advising the CSA on the matter had concluded was not likely to succeed.

Where we are now is having the build up to the first men's World Cup qualification in over 35 years tarnished by the revenues dispute between the players and CSA/CSB. We also have strong rumours of the CSB investors demanding high seven or low eight figures for groups in Quebec and elsewhere to join their cartel.  Neither of those things needed to happen in the context of having a domestic pro league structure. The most important questions are how harmony is now restored to the relationship between the national team players and the CSA and how CanPL succeeds in doing what it needs to do once that happens given how central CSB is to their chosen business model?

Edited October 25, 2022 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[Kent]

9 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

There are many obvious reasons why having a Canadian pro league structure of some description would be a good thing that have nothing to do with World Cup qualification.

When you are talking about the CPL you don't seem to believe this, with the exception of liking the fans in Halifax. It feels like you are holding your Easton report make believe league (that you believe is totally not L1C) to a different standard than the league that actually exists.

And just to review, here is an article from the time (9 years ago) about the Easton report.

https://the11.ca/the-easton-report-what-it-means-for-div-3-in-canada-2/

"Easton recommends the best course of action is a regionally-based series of Div. 3 leagues, governed by a single umbrella organization."

What do we have now? We have the CPL, which also owns League1 Canada, which is an umbrella organization that governs League1 Ontario (Div. 3), PLSQ (Div. 3), and League1 BC (Div. 3).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/League1_Canada

I guess the main thing that is different between L1C and the Easton report recommendation, is that I don't believe the Easton Report was advocating for women's teams, but L1C does have women's teams. We got an Easton Report + situation going on here, this is a good thing. Women's teams at D3 level, and a pro league for the men. This is progress. Let's try to make the league work without doing a complete tear down.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

The matter at hand where CSB is concerned is is not your bizarre misinterpretation of my posts on the CanPL subforum but the following:

On 10/25/2022 at 11:04 AM, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

...The most important questions are how harmony is now restored to the relationship between the national team players and the CSA and how CanPL succeeds in doing what it needs to do once that happens given how central CSB is to their chosen business model?

Victor Montagliani used the promise of access to future CMNT and CWNT marketing and broadcasting revenues potentially all the way out to 2038 to entice Bob Young & Co to sign on the dotted line. Here's the Duane Rollins take on what would happen to CanPL if that were now removed from the equation in response to the player demands:

The difference between myself and Duane Rollins is that I predicted ahead of time that the viability of at least some CanPL clubs was going to be in serious doubt at this stage of their existence and was pointing out alternative courses of action to avoid that sinking the entire league before CanPL even launched. The reason for doing that despite the barrage of personal abuse I was subjected to was that the last thing I want to see happening is yet another Canadian domestic pro league folding.

Edited October 26, 2022 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[narduch]

Please someone get the Bird Man a cross

[Bison44]

Well thats it in a nutshell.  Stick with american controlled MLS farm clubs (in cities that already have pro soccer) and bus leagues (centered on the 401 corridor), just in case a cross Canada CPL type league may have problems and could potentially fold.  It certainly is an opinion.........excuse me while I go back to bed because there is a chance something might happen to me if I leave the house.  

[narduch]

19 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

Well thats it in a nutshell.  Stick with american controlled MLS farm clubs (in cities that already have pro soccer) and bus leagues (centered on the 401 corridor), just in case a cross Canada CPL type league may have problems and could potentially fold.  It certainly is an opinion.........excuse me while I go back to bed because there is a chance something might happen to me if I leave the house.  

We just had 2 semi-final matches with 7,000 + fans last weekend in CPL. The final is looking to be over 10,000 fans.

And this guy is still pushing his joke of a bus league.

[MM3/MM2/MM]

4 hours ago, narduch said:

We just had 2 semi-final matches with 7,000 + fans last weekend in CPL. The final is looking to be over 10,000 fans.

And this guy is still pushing his joke of a bus league.

Yea, we are better off having 100 people attending PDL level games, that is what the Ottawa Fury PDL team often drew.

 

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

Yes let's play at cherrypicking attendance stats to fit our preferred narrative. CEBL launched at around the same time as CanPL but with a lower salary budget approach that means pretty much any CHL arena could be used for it making expansion relatively straightforward. The Ottawa team appears to draw 1800:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_CEBL_season

Not as high as Atletico but a lot higher than the Fury in PDL and with a business model that may prove to be more sustainable than what CSB are trying to peddle, which has severely antagonized the national team players in an unintended consequences sort of way.

6000 showing up in Halifax means diddlysquat long term if the league folds for lack of numbers because FCE, the Valour and York United were losing too much money for their owners to keep going and stringent stadium requirements made expansion elsewhere too difficult.

[narduch]

15 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

 

Not as high as Atletico but a lot higher than the Fury in PDL and with a business model that may prove to be more sustainable than what CSB are trying to peddle, which has severely antagonized the national team players in an unintended consequences sort of way. 

So antagonized yet 2 of them showed up at the Forge game on the weekend

[SthMelbRed]

There it is. After 4-5 years, the fuckwit has finally found a new talking point.

Now, not only do we get to hear 'Easton Report' and 'semi-pro, bus league' ad nauseum, but we also get 'CSB has alienated the national team players, so should be trashed'.

What a complete and utter loser. 

[MM3/MM2/MM]

The CEBL has a huge advantage in that they do not have to construct suitable stadiums for the teams.  Not sure if their model is that sustainable.

 

[Cheeta]

18 hours ago, narduch said:

Please someone get the Bird Man a cross

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

5 hours ago, MM3/MM2/MM said:

The CEBL has a huge advantage in that they do not have to construct suitable stadiums for the teams...

Agreed but a pop-up with bleacher seating at an ethnic social club field would do the job at that sort of crowd level so there were still ways that expansion could have been made a lot easier to do in a soccer context as well. I know PDL didn't work as a spectator event in Ottawa but in London 1000+ showed up sometimes at the German Club where London City used to play.

Where am I going with this? There were other ways to proceed with a domestic pro league structure that didn't have to involve handing over CMNT and CWNT revenues to Bob Young & Co for up to twenty years and the alleged huge expansion fees that CanPL is said to now be asking for. The path they chose to go down is high risk high reward which is fine if it works but it usually doesn't because of the first part of that equation.

[MtlMario]

If we did not have the CPL and CMNT qualifies for the W/C he would be the first one to say "See I told you we do not need a true pro national league in Canada to qualify for world cups".😎

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

^^^obviously hasn't grasped yet that one of the most glaring optics problems right now with the way CSB is set up is that nobody on the CMNT plays in CanPL because of how low the salary cap is. Judging from the last Gold Cup there's a good chance that nobody on a 55 man provisional roster named by John Herdman would have been from CanPL either which may be why that wasn't publicly released.

As things stand at the moment it's a bit like the FA in England taking its World Cup marketing revenues and pumping it into the Nationwide Conference so it can stay fully professional. Great if you support a club like Dorking Wanderers or Solihull Moors but difficult to justify to Harry Kane why that means he is getting a smaller payout for playing in Qatar than would otherwise have been the case.

Hence why Milan Borjan and the boys are less than gruntled about the whole situation right now. A pro soccer career is short so players are always after all the money they can get lest they wind up like Paul James eventually.

Edited October 27, 2022 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[narduch]

31 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

A pro soccer career is short so players are always after all the money they can get lest they wind up like Paul James eventually.

This is quite possibly the most obscene and ghoulish thing I've ever seen you post. 

This totally crosses a line 

[Kingston]

2 hours ago, MtlMario said:

If we did not have the CPL and CMNT qualifies for the W/C he would be the first one to say "See I told you we do not need a true pro national league in Canada to qualify for world cups".😎

In fairness, the CPL had nothing to do with us qualifying for the World Cup.

[Gian-Luca]

35 minutes ago, Kingston said:

In fairness, the CPL had nothing to do with us qualifying for the World Cup.

Although it has something to do with us qualifying for the 2026 World Cup since it was put in the CSA bid documents that Canada would have its own professional league ahead of hosting the World Cup since FIFA frowns upon it if hosting countries don't have one.

[Bison44]

13 minutes ago, Kingston said:

In fairness, the CPL had nothing to do with us qualifying for the World Cup.

You sure?  Maybe having its own league helped sway Eustaquio.  Maybe owning L1O (Div 3) and and having a proper CDN pyramid and pathway for development is helping??  Plenty of the CMNT played in L1O.  If you take the narrow view like bird droppings I guess its true, no former CPL played for Canada in qualifying.  But that is prob going to change real soon, so now he is moving the goal posts again, peddling no one currently in CPL is on CMNT.  Which is a disingenuous and narrow way of looking at it.  Almost like he is going out of his way to slag the CPL....and then loudly proclaim he was the only one who foresaw problems, a true Cassandra.   As if there wasnt problems with the status quo and setup before CPL.     

[Kingston]

1 hour ago, Gian-Luca said:

Although it has something to do with us qualifying for the 2026 World Cup since it was put in the CSA bid documents that Canada would have its own professional league ahead of hosting the World Cup since FIFA frowns upon it if hosting countries don't have one.

If applying to host helped get us the CPL, then good, I'm glad we got the CPL.  I doubt FIFA would make it a deal breaker, though.  See "Hosting the World Cup, USA, 1994" and "Launch of MLS, 1996".