Canadian Soccer Business (CSB)

[SpursFlu]

2 hours ago, RJB said:

Neither. At this point, it is about supporting a call for greater transparency at a publicly supported organization, that represents Canadians.  We should expect nothing less of organizations like these in Canada, be they the CSA, Hockey Canada, Canada Basketball, etc.  Why is transparency such a bad thing in your opinion?

Because when it comes to business I don't think there should be 100% transparency. The players should have an understanding of what is going on but they play and they leave. They need to understand the objectives not just what's best for 24 guys. So yes transparency.. but not for the sake of Joe 6 pack the weekend warrior soccer executive or potentially the information being held against the CSB or CSA and used by competing interests. Or people getting out the torches and pitch forks because they think the deal is a bad one. get real this whole transparency buzzword is just being tossed around by people sitting on their high horse but couldn't find their ass with their right hand

Edited July 15, 2022 by SpursFlu

[Ruud]

9 hours ago, kohanz said:

The confusion for me was that ray said:

To which you replied

I interpreted this as saying that you didn't think that the corporate sponsorship dollars go to CSB, but perhaps you meant to say that you don't think the CSA has an incentive to sign sponsorship deals?

Only a few details to clarify in everything that I’ve read 

 

1. does CSB take 100% of all new revenue and sponsorship to do as they please. This does lead to a disincentive for CSA to seek new sponsorship money as nothing new goes to them.  This seems almost impossible to comprehend since players themselves would have to agree to ads and photo shoots and they would never agree to this with no return to them and the team

2. If yes and if it also included World Cup bonuses ,  They must have imagined a World Cup payout to players which would have to have been shared with players and or defined.  Same with women

3 if all was agreed upon during a board meeting which now appears to be not well recorded, it cannot be only during the meeting that board members would have had eyes on contractual documents.  Are we seeing now a bunch of provincially appointed board members and a few others  just not upto the task?

[red card]

5 hours ago, kohanz said:

Sponsorship at this level is a marketing activity driven by supply and demand. Maybe this is cynical, but I highly doubt that Gatorade, CIBC, Nike, etc. care whether their $ ends up improving soccer in Canada. What they care about is ROI on their sponsorship $ and looking good in the eyes of their bosses.

The sponsorship discussions have been mostly basic.

If a company is looking to maximize brand activation opportunities and/or be able to promote during their products peak selling season, then the CPL season is better suited than infrequent/irregular national team matches that can attract differing demos. If a company like Come On wants tiered sponsorships such as via one club only or match of the week, then CPL is a more flexible/affordable option.

Looking at the track record under CSB, companies have signed for various deal types.

CSA only new sponsors have been Access Storage, Osmow's & GE Appliances (GE already sponsored the 3 Cdn MLS teams). 

New sponsors for both CSA & CPL have been GoGosqueez, Oat Canada & Gatorade (replaced Powerade for the CSA). Allstate has been pre-CSB sponsor of the CSA but became a sponsor of the CPL.

CSA only sponsors that have been there pre-CSB are Nike, Toyota & Teck. Govt of Canada, OTP & B2ten are listed as funding supporters. AMJ Campbell, Cardiac Science & Cdn Red Cross are listed as suppliers. Pre-CSB sponsor Christie has left.

CPL only sponsors are OneSoccer, Volkswagen, Westjet, Macron, New Era & Derbystar. There are also individual club and/or broadcast sponsors while CSA doesn't have sponsors just for the women or youth teams. And like with the CSA, some of these are more suppliers rather than true sponsors.

Edited July 15, 2022 by red card

[Gian-Luca]

1 hour ago, TOcanadafan said:

So if the women received ‘clarity’ on June 24th, how come they’ve amped up their fight now Gareth?

Just because they received clarity doesn't mean that they liked the clarity they received. The Westhead article has seemingly given them the hope that they can scupper the CSB deal, presumably because they see it as an obstacle for getting paid more, or failing that, the money re-directed into something other than  "a for-profit professional men's league" as they disdainfully put it.

Strange though that there has been no mention of this meeting in the Westhead article or the women team's tweets/written statement...

[Gian-Luca]

46 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

I posted this in the OS thread under the CPL section but it also probably warrants mention here.  In light of everything going on, OS was doing a bit of timely self promotion in the pre game show for the women’s game against Jamaica.  
 

That's fair enough IMO - if everyone else gets to be biased, I don't see why they shouldn't defend themselves out of self-interest.

[SpursFlu]

Who pays Rick Whitehead's salary? TSN Bell

Who use to have rights for CSA properties for basically free? TSN Bell

Who would have shown Canada's historic World Cup Qualifiers if not for CSB? TSN Bell

Who would likely be showing CSA properties for the next 7 years if it wasn't for the CSB. TSN Bell 

Who owns MLSE who owns TFC in the MLS who had 100% domestic market share in domestic soccer before CPL? TSN Bell

Who continues to lose soccer properties and viewers to streaming service such as Onesoccer? TSN Bell

Who initiated the story Rick Whitehead wrote on TSN Bell's Website? Transparency please 

Who contacted the players prior to Panama game with information that made them want more "transparency" even though initially it was about compensation? Rick from TSN Bell 

Who is extremely bad for TSN Bell's soccer business? CSB

Edited July 15, 2022 by SpursFlu

[TOcanadafan]

33 minutes ago, SpursFlu said:

Who pays Rick Whitehead's salary? TSN Bell

Who use to have rights for CSA properties for basically free? TSN Bell

Who would have shown Canada's historic World Cup Qualifiers if not for CSB? TSN Bell

Who would likely be showing CSA properties for the next 7 years if it wasn't for the CSB. TSN Bell 

Who owns MLSE who owns TFC in the MLS who had 100% domestic market share in domestic soccer before CPL? TSN Bell

Who continues to lose soccer properties and viewers to streaming service such as Onesoccer? TSN Bell

Who initiated the story Rick Whitehead wrote on TSN Bell's Website? Transparency please 

Who contacted the players prior to Panama game with information that made them want more "transparency" even though initially it was about compensation? Rick from TSN Bell 

Who is extremely bad for TSN Bell's soccer business? CSB

The one thing wrong with this theory is that CSB head honchos are CFL guys, and who broadcasts the CFL? TSN. 

[Stryker911]

CSB keeps saying they will be transparent. At this point the players need to sit down with them and figure it out. If the players dont like what they hear then say so. No more beating around the bush and quotes through the media.

Josh Simpson, a CPL owner, Canada career overlapped with 5 current MNT players. There must be some type of feasible dialogie between them that they can get their CSB questions answered. And if the answers aren't good then that is an ex player screwing over the current and future cmnt players.

Edited July 15, 2022 by Stryker911

[Colonel Green]

53 minutes ago, SpursFlu said:

Who use to have rights for CSA properties for basically free? TSN Bell

When the rights weren't worth anything. The existence of the CSB is immaterial and it being gone would not change anything.

53 minutes ago, SpursFlu said:

Who would have shown Canada's historic World Cup Qualifiers if not for CSB? TSN Bell

Er, lest we forget, MediaPro gladly sold the rights to any games that the networks were interested in acquiring.

53 minutes ago, SpursFlu said:

Who would likely be showing CSA properties for the next 7 years if it wasn't for the CSB. TSN Bell 

See above, MediaPro will gladly sell the networks any games they want to air. They have no interest in the CPL and only want the highlights of the national teams, which they can readily acquire.

53 minutes ago, SpursFlu said:

Who owns MLSE who owns TFC in the MLS who had 100% domestic market share in domestic soccer before CPL? TSN Bell

LOL, the CPL is a non-issue for TFC and MLS. They mostly don't overlap in geography and MLS is far, far bigger.

53 minutes ago, SpursFlu said:

Who continues to lose soccer properties and viewers to streaming service such as Onesoccer? TSN Bell

OneSoccer only gets what TSN doesn't want, and gladly sells TSN anything it does want.

53 minutes ago, SpursFlu said:

Who initiated the story Rick Whitehead wrote on TSN Bell's Website?

Westhead investigated in response to a player controversy.

[RJB]

2 hours ago, SpursFlu said:

Because when it comes to business I don't think there should be 100% transparency. The players should have an understanding of what is going on but they play and they leave. They need to understand the objectives not just what's best for 24 guys. So yes transparency.. but not for the sake of Joe 6 pack the weekend warrior soccer executive or potentially the information being held against the CSB or CSA and used by competing interests. Or people getting out the torches and pitch forks because they think the deal is a bad one. get real this whole transparency buzzword is just being tossed around by people sitting on their high horse but couldn't find their ass with their right hand

The CSA is not a business. 

[SpursFlu]

37 minutes ago, Colonel Green said:

When the rights weren't worth anything. The existence of the CSB is immaterial and it being gone would not change anything.

Er, lest we forget, MediaPro gladly sold the rights to any games that the networks were interested in acquiring.

See above, MediaPro will gladly sell the networks any games they want to air. They have no interest in the CPL and only want the highlights of the national teams, which they can readily acquire.

LOL, the CPL is a non-issue for TFC and MLS. They mostly don't overlap in geography and MLS is far, far bigger.

OneSoccer only gets what TSN doesn't want, and gladly sells TSN anything it does want.

Westhead investigated in response to a player controversy.

You have no vision

[SpursFlu]

2 minutes ago, RJB said:

The CSA is not a business. 

Everything is a business 

[SpursFlu]

1 hour ago, TOcanadafan said:

The one thing wrong with this theory is that CSB head honchos are CFL guys, and who broadcasts the CFL? TSN. 

But for how long?

It's not a theory it's the truth 

The only question is that rock weighs something.. but how much? According to buddy a few comments back its like .5 pounds. I tend to think it weighs a ton

Edited July 15, 2022 by SpursFlu

[narduch]

5 hours ago, TOcanadafan said:

The one thing wrong with this theory is that CSB head honchos are CFL guys, and who broadcasts the CFL? TSN. 

Only 2 teams are owned by CFL owners.

 

[Ruud]

6 hours ago, TOcanadafan said:

The one thing wrong with this theory is that CSB head honchos are CFL guys, and who broadcasts the CFL? TSN. 

Many things wrong with this theory but yes that is one.  

[Ruud]

6 hours ago, SpursFlu said:

Who pays Rick Whitehead's salary? TSN Bell

Who use to have rights for CSA properties for basically free? TSN Bell

Who would have shown Canada's historic World Cup Qualifiers if not for CSB? TSN Bell

Who would likely be showing CSA properties for the next 7 years if it wasn't for the CSB. TSN Bell 

Who owns MLSE who owns TFC in the MLS who had 100% domestic market share in domestic soccer before CPL? TSN Bell

Who continues to lose soccer properties and viewers to streaming service such as Onesoccer? TSN Bell

Who initiated the story Rick Whitehead wrote on TSN Bell's Website? Transparency please 

Who contacted the players prior to Panama game with information that made them want more "transparency" even though initially it was about compensation? Rick from TSN Bell 

Who is extremely bad for TSN Bell's soccer business? CSB

Westhead spoke on Montreal TSN radio about junior hockey and soccer yesterday.  I get the impression he has free reign to investigate legal topics around sports.  
 

to be fair, Bell will dislike both these topics since they hold junior hockey WC and The World Cup rights and are likely selling ads to these assets as we speak.  Westhead has no underlying knowledge in soccer by the way.  He’s more of a hockey guy.  Bell would not be using Westhead as a conduit to some nefarious end.  They’d surely prefer to stay clear of controversy and just make money.  

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

27 minutes ago, narduch said:

Only 2 teams are owned by CFL owners.

Bob Young is thought to be the money behind HFX Wanderers as well.

[narduch]

19 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Bob Young is thought to be the money behind HFX Wanderers as well.

Ok.

But the point still stands

The CPL is not all CFL owners.

If it was we might already have teams in Quebec and Saskatchewan 

[SF]

9 hours ago, SpursFlu said:

Because when it comes to business I don't think there should be 100% transparency. The players should have an understanding of what is going on but they play and they leave. They need to understand the objectives not just what's best for 24 guys. So yes transparency.. but not for the sake of Joe 6 pack the weekend warrior soccer executive or potentially the information being held against the CSB or CSA and used by competing interests. Or people getting out the torches and pitch forks because they think the deal is a bad one. get real this whole transparency buzzword is just being tossed around by people sitting on their high horse but couldn't find their ass with their right hand

Yes, you don't need 100% to transparency to build trust.  But you need some level and what % level that is can be debated.  What is hard to debate is that, whatever the level, the CSA falls well below.  All you need to do is look at the outcomes here. 

 

[Ivan]

9 hours ago, Gian-Luca said:

That's fair enough IMO - if everyone else gets to be biased, I don't see why they shouldn't defend themselves out of self-interest.

Anyone who watched the TSN Pre-game show Wednesday could hear Brade, Kilbane and DeGuzman endlessly praising and back-patting Westhead's article, while grinning like Cheshire cats.  Biased?   

[RS]

Don't like the message? Attack the messenger.

[Gian-Luca]

13 minutes ago, Ivan said:

Anyone who watched the TSN Pre-game show Wednesday could hear Brade, Kilbane and DeGuzman endlessly praising and back-patting Westhead's article, while grinning like Cheshire cats.  Biased?   

While I don't buy the conspiracy theory being put forth here (I tend to not put things down to conspiracy which can be more easily explained by things like incompetence or individual bias or self interest), the one-sidedness of their coverage on that show (and during half-time) was rather shameful. I get that De Guzman will be anti-CSA because every player who hasn't gone on to work for them (or do business with them in the case of Josh Simpson) tends to come out that way. But I didn't understand why they were harping on Cochrane's statement that the players didn't understand the CSA's business realities - isn't that the point that everyone acknowledges?  The players admit they don't understand and are seeking that transparency on that very issue. The flipside to this is that there was no voice for any other viewpoint or admission that maybe the starting a pro domestic league (which it is not conspiratorial or controversial to suggest that TSN doesn't give two squirts of piss about) as a consequence of the CSB deal has positives to it, let alone that it might just be purely positive in itself. And the crapping on the CSA for arranging a friendly against Qatar instead of a European team when UEFA nations league is happening on the same dates was incredibly embarrassing and suggested the entire panel didn't have their thinking caps on.

Likewise, the Westhead TSN article continues to look more and more like a tissue of half-truths and carefully selected info designed to further an agenda. If this meeting with the women and the CSB happened on June 24th, why is there no mention of it on an article dated July 12th? Instead there is a quote from Janine Beckie where she complains about a "severe lack of transparency" about "where the money is coming from". I'll give Janine the benefit of the doubt that maybe she was solely referring to the Own the Podium money (although this is not mentioned in her quote and she should instead be asking the reverse - where is the money going) but I'm not going to extend that benefit to Westhead as I don't really see the excuse here (nobody can say "well maybe he just didn't know about it" - either he's an investigative journalist or he isn't). With  several other items I've already mentioned in previous posts (including unquoted comments that the CSB are leeches), the report increasingly looks very one-sided - not because of some secret master-plan from MLSE as has been suggested, but simply that it's in his interest to create controversy and drive traffic to the TSN site and their network which drives up sponsorship $$. He is doing his job effectively in that respect, I suppose, but not sure that this is good for any of the actual parties (CSA, CSB, Players) or Canadian soccer as a whole.

 

[El Hombre]

23 minutes ago, RS said:

Don't like the message? Attack the messenger.

I find all this complaining about Westhead being biased or trying to topple giants on behalf of TSN pretty laughable.  It's like looking for a conspiracy where there isn't one.

The players striking was a big story.  Obviously a guy whose bread and butter are stories like that is going to latch on. 

You don't want a biased article written about you?  Then maybe you should answer his phone calls and comment so that he can write both sides.  I can understand the CSA being caught off-guard by his first article, but there is no excuse for the second one.  The minute you find out that you have someone like Westhead looking into you, you hire a PR firm and you make sure you have your story straight the next time he comes around.  A journalist can't write both sides if he only has access to one. 

TSN and Sportsnet have shown that they care fuck all about soccer.  They're just trying to drive clicks.  Plus, if this was some master plan by TSN, why would they have allowed the release of the story the night before NHL free agency, their second biggest day of the year?  If they wanted to make this a bigger story, they would've forced Westhead to release it next week after everything has died down so that they stay relevant during the summer doldrums.

[The Pessimist]

Everyone here is debating the good and bad of the CSA/CSB deal. The reality is that this is about the players wanting to get their hands on the $10 million bonus money. They are using Westhead as a conduit to get their point across and to accelerate the process. The players didn't ask for transparency until they were told they couldn't get everything they wanted.

If the CSA suddenly said to the players, "Here is the $10 mil. It's all yours", all of this discussion would go away. The players don't care about how the CSA is run or who is in charge. All they want is the bonus money. 

This all about greed.

[Ruud]

12 minutes ago, The Pessimist said:

Everyone here is debating the good and bad of the CSA/CSB deal. The reality is that this is about the players wanting to get their hands on the $10 million bonus money. They are using Westhead as a conduit to get their point across and to accelerate the process. The players didn't ask for transparency until they were told they couldn't get everything they wanted.

If the CSA suddenly said to the players, "Here is the $10 mil. It's all yours", all of this discussion would go away. The players don't care about how the CSA is run or who is in charge. All they want is the bonus money. 

This all about greed.

Yes for sure!  Nothing wrong with some payouts.   For players coaches and staff. And equal greed for women.  Now is the time for bonuses clarity, equal pay for women, tickets to World Cup, hotel accommodations, chartered flights.   Business class and all the rest.   Sponsorship on cereal boxes etc.  bring it.