Canadian Soccer Business (CSB)

[Unnamed Trialist]

4 minutes ago, Gian-Luca said:

The odd thing is that the statement even mentions that we're getting closer to a women's league being created, which I'm assuming was a response to this interview with Breagha Carr-Harris of the CSA :

https://onesoccer.ca/a/were-building-the-model-breagha-carr-harris-on-spearheading-canada-s-pro-women-s-soccer-league

The CPL started and has held on through COVID with CSB seed money (assuming Media Pro was only possible through CSB), but could get to 75-90% revenue against expenditure at some point. Especially if they are tight with the salary cap and can get sponsors for travel.

But a women's league would need to be a more fundamentally subsidized. It would be a project leveraged almost entirely by revenue sources other than gate, merchandising or directly related. I'm fine with that, but it would put the CSB in an important role, and presumibly the only way that could happen is if they had the funds to maintain it almost indefinitely.

[Vasi]

23 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

As I see it, the deal is a bad one, but I am not in crisis mode over it. I have also signed lousy terms for a mortgage and then had to ride it out until I got a chance to change things. There are plenty of clubs in poor deals for merchandise, sponsors, naming rights. Others getting overpaid. You redo them when you can. 

For me, if the CSB deal ensures the future of the CPL, that is major. If the consolidation of League Ones is happening as a consequence, that too pleases me. League Ones are also consolidating the tier below women's pro in Canada, again, a major development. 

My only complaints as we stand are that the entry fee is getting too high, and that limits the growth of the CPL when the league needs 4-6 more teams before the "founders" start moving into this mentality of overcharging to join in. I do not agree with the non-presence in Québec. I would like there to be some initiative to get a pro women's team in Canada, or project a future pro-am league. 

If all that means a guy going to Qatar will receive 50,000 for the group stage rather than 110,000, so be it. I could not care in the least. If the women are not getting a cut from what FIFA pays the CSA for the mens' accomplishments, I personally do not find that a priority concern. Let them be compensated through other means; most are getting pro salaries now, which was not the case, others have personal sponsorship deals, the compensation for being a pro is much better than even 2-3 years ago.  There are probably about 5-7 men in the player pool not making significantly more or even less than a similar group of women: this is not like the French, German, Spanish, English national teams.

CPL over NT emoluments, that is my view. 

If and when they can renegotiate the CSB deal, if it gives the CSA more flexibility to grow the game and, if we feel that is a priority, spend on player bonuses, great. I am all for it.

A bad deal for 20 years is not just a "bad deal". If you sign a lousy mortgage deal you have 5 years to renegotiate. If not you would lose the house. The CPL has been irrelevant to the success of the current mens team. Not a single player on the them played in the CPL.

I rather have no CPL and a very good consistent nat team. Most ppl would want that after having a shit nat team for ever. Excluding a decent one in 2000.

But with a very good nat tram and a WC in 26 we would have enough money and momentum to create a CPL and maintain it.

So to go to your original analogy. We signed a bad mortgage in 2018 because we had no options. Now its time re-finance that mortgage. Make sure the CSA gets a fair deal and the Owners of the CPL get something. 

Also, just the fact that the CPL owners are profiting from the CSB, it doesn't mean they will reinvest that money in to the sport. They are all rich for a reason. 

 

[Unnamed Trialist]

1 minute ago, Vasi said:

A bad deal for 20 years is not just a "bad deal". If you sign a lousy mortgage deal you have 5 years to renegotiate. If not you would lose the house. The CPL has been irrelevant to the success of the current mens team. Not a single player on the them played in the CPL.

I rather have no CPL and a very good consistent nat team. Most ppl would want that after having a shit nat team for ever. Excluding a decent one in 2000.

But with a very good nat tram and a WC in 26 we would have enough money and momentum to create a CPL and maintain it.

So to go to your original analogy. We signed a bad mortgage in 2018 because we had no options. Now its time re-finance that mortgage. Make sure the CSA gets a fair deal and the Owners of the CPL get something. 

Also, just the fact that the CPL owners are profiting from the CSB, it doesn't mean they will reinvest that money in to the sport. They are all rich for a reason. 

But doesn't the current deal now in place also coincide with the CPL AND a very good NT? 

You don't honestly believe that the players getting 40% of the 10 million after taxes for Qatar somehow ensures they'll be competitive in 2026, do you? 

[RS]

58 minutes ago, SpursFlu said:

Wait until the World Cup and our players are served serious humble pie and they realize they should be a bit more grateful to be even on such a platform

"Please Mr. CSA Man, we know we just earned you a (minimum) $10 million cheque through our own work and talent, but we are just so gosh darn grateful to be on such a platform as the World Cup that you should take all of this money and not tell anyone what you're doing with it."

[SF]

It's hard to overstate how broken this whole thing is.  Any relationship, any institution is only useful if there is a decent level of trust among the stakeholders.

Here, trust is clearly and profoundly broken.

I just don't see how this is salvaged without a complete overhaul of the CSA infrastructure.

 

[Unnamed Trialist]

22 minutes ago, RS said:

"Please Mr. CSA Man, we know we just earned you a (minimum) $10 million cheque through our own work and talent, but we are just so gosh darn grateful to be on such a platform as the World Cup that you should take all of this money and not tell anyone what you're doing with it."

You are seriously suggesting the CSA did not hire Herdman, is not paying him, is not paying his staff, does not make travel and hotel arrangements, did not choose home venues, did not ensure favourable fan support at home, and did not do anything else whatsoever to establish the conditions for success in this qualifying campaign?

But that Brym, Cornelius, Liam Fraser and maybe a third of the roster would have the gall to think anything close to what you suggesting? 

Just put your words in Dwayne St Clair 's mouth and listen to them. Do you not hear what I hear?

[SpursFlu]

30 minutes ago, RS said:

"Please Mr. CSA Man, we know we just earned you a (minimum) $10 million cheque through our own work and talent, but we are just so gosh darn grateful to be on such a platform as the World Cup that you should take all of this money and not tell anyone what you're doing with it."

"All the money" are you just making shit up?

Did i miss the part where Canadian players made no money 

How much money.. per player has everyone's panties in a knot? Just the number.. the difference between what they were going to make and what they want? 

That's what this is about right?

Edited July 14, 2022 by SpursFlu

[SpursFlu]

I want to know where the money goes.. where does TSNs money go? Where does Sportsnet's money go? What about Rick Whitehead? Let's see his bank account and reimbursements. Where does MLSE money go? What about Bell and Roger? What money is coming and going where? What about the MLS, where does the money go? How about the players? Where does their money go? John Herdman, where does your money go? Cmon.. lets get some transparency.. let's create some bad guys

Where does your money go?

Where is all the money going? We need to know.  Let's not be selective

Edited July 14, 2022 by SpursFlu

[Gian-Luca]

18 minutes ago, SF said:

It's hard to overstate how broken this whole thing is.  Any relationship, any institution is only useful if there is a decent level of trust among the stakeholders.

Here, trust is clearly and profoundly broken.

I just don't see how this is salvaged without a complete overhaul of the CSA infrastructure.

 

I was thinking that sometimes people need to resign even if they haven’t done anything wrong, but for the good  of moving the game forward/ no longer being an obstacle with the major stakeholders 

[Vasi]

36 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

But doesn't the current deal now in place also coincide with the CPL AND a very good NT? 

You don't honestly believe that the players getting 40% of the 10 million after taxes for Qatar somehow ensures they'll be competitive in 2026, do you? 

No i does not coincide. Its a fluke. If no player from the CPL has played on the team then it can't coincide. 

To me the 40% is negotiable. If you read their complaints recently they dont seem to care about the 40% as they care about a deal that caps their yearly budget at 3.5 to 4 mill per year for 20 years. That is the issue. 

The CSA got a 5 mill per year sponsorship deal with CIBC. The CSA gets non of that money. It goes to the CSB. 

With 3.5 mill per year we wont be playing top 10 nations in friendlies nor will be having regular u 20 u 19 and u 17 camps. So say goodbye to a consistent nat team.

Football is expensive. Especially for counties that need to fly players allover the world like ours. 3.5 mill is a super low budget. 

[Stryker911]

How can anyone listen to Johnston talk about what is going on and then listen to Bontis/Cochrane and think that Canada Soccer is in the right?

Maybe this is me being naive, but one comes off as genuine, thoughtful and articulate and the other seems like they are trying to pull a fast one and hope noone notices.

[Aird25]

10 minutes ago, Stryker911 said:

How can anyone listen to Johnston talk about what is going on and then listen to Bontis/Cochrane and think that Canada Soccer is in the right?

Maybe this is me being naive, but one comes off as genuine, thoughtful and articulate and the other seems like they are trying to pull a fast one and hope noone notices.

Agreed about Johnston. He always seems to be very genuine, thoughtful and well spoken. That's why I want to better understand the claims that they're doing this for the future of the game in this country. How does redistributing money from CPL to current national team players benefit the long-term outlook on the future of soccer in this country?

[Colonel Green]

1 hour ago, SpursFlu said:

I want to know where the money goes.. where does TSNs money go? Where does Sportsnet's money go? What about Rick Whitehead? Let's see his bank account and reimbursements. Where does MLSE money go? What about Bell and Roger? What money is coming and going where? What about the MLS, where does the money go? How about the players? Where does their money go? John Herdman, where does your money go? Cmon.. lets get some transparency.. let's create some bad guys

Where does your money go?

Where is all the money going? We need to know.  Let's not be selective

This is masterfully silly.

Edited July 14, 2022 by Colonel Green

[Ansem]

1 hour ago, SpursFlu said:

I want to know where the money goes.. where does TSNs money go? Where does Sportsnet's money go? What about Rick Whitehead? Let's see his bank account and reimbursements. Where does MLSE money go? What about Bell and Roger? What money is coming and going where? What about the MLS, where does the money go?

Not in CSA coffers either - so this whole let's kill CSB deal is funny to me

[Watchmen]

It's about the money, but it's not about the money.  It's about transparency within the CSA and it's governance structure, which all of us (players, fans, coaches, former board members) have complained about for decades.  If the CSA was more transparent and could better demonstrate to the players what was happening with the money, they'd have a better case.  Instead, they signed on to a deal they're not providing any details on and "lost" the meeting notes where the board agreed to it. If all of this leads to improvements at the CSA, we're all better for it.

[red card]

2 hours ago, Vasi said:

 

I rather have no CPL and a very good consistent nat team. Most ppl would want that after having a shit nat team for ever. Excluding a decent one in 2000.

But with a very good nat tram and a WC in 26 we would have enough money and momentum to create a CPL and maintain it.

 

 

Mainly outside of this forum, thinking national team football is a better business than club football has skewed views. In Concacaf, it's worse given the business is more cyclical and the payoffs just cover expenses. 

MLS tv rights deal is 10x more than US Soccer even with a World Cup winning team. Based on how MLS teams are valued, US Soccer is worth less than total value of 5 MLS clubs. 

If we want a football industry for all aspects of the game from youth to national teams, leagues like CPL, League 1 and hopefully a women's league are table stakes. 

 

 

[gigi riva]

5 hours ago, Vasi said:

No i does not coincide. Its a fluke. If no player from the CPL has played on the team then it can't coincide. 

To me the 40% is negotiable. If you read their complaints recently they dont seem to care about the 40% as they care about a deal that caps their yearly budget at 3.5 to 4 mill per year for 20 years. That is the issue. 

The CSA got a 5 mill per year sponsorship deal with CIBC. The CSA gets non of that money. It goes to the CSB. 

With 3.5 mill per year we wont be playing top 10 nations in friendlies nor will be having regular u 20 u 19 and u 17 camps. So say goodbye to a consistent nat team.

Football is expensive. Especially for counties that need to fly players allover the world like ours. 3.5 mill is a super low budget. 

Thats why I have alawys said we need more corporate backing .

 

[SpecialK]

Ok maybe someone has already spoke about this but I still don’t understand. The CSB deal and the CPL. Ok look I get the rights to Show the games - that’s ok, I understand that. The sponsorship deals I don’t get. The CSA and CPL should have their own sponsors and separate dealings why is it linked ? why does the CPL need the CSA to get sponsorships deals and vice versa. 

[RS]

4 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

You are seriously suggesting the CSA did not hire Herdman, is not paying him, is not paying his staff, does not make travel and hotel arrangements, did not choose home venues, did not ensure favourable fan support at home, and did not do anything else whatsoever to establish the conditions for success in this qualifying campaign?

I am seriously suggesting you re-read my post and what it is in response to.

[RS]

4 hours ago, SpursFlu said:

I want to know where the money goes.. where does TSNs money go? Where does Sportsnet's money go? What about Rick Whitehead? Let's see his bank account and reimbursements. Where does MLSE money go? What about Bell and Roger? What money is coming and going where? What about the MLS, where does the money go? How about the players? Where does their money go? John Herdman, where does your money go? Cmon.. lets get some transparency.. let's create some bad guys

Where does your money go?

Where is all the money going? We need to know.  Let's not be selective

I’m not sure why you’re hell bent on simping for the CSA, but it’s a terrible look. 
 

[Sal333]

20 hours ago, SpecialK said:

My question- why do people think the CPL will suddenly collapsed? 
the CPL owners have deep pockets 

Ottawa - Atlético Madrid

Forge - Bob Young 

Cavalry FC - spruce Meadows

Pacific FC- SixFive Sports & Entertainment ( they even want to own a 2nd team ) 

Valour - Winnipeg football community

halifax - they sell out almost every game. 

Because those pockets didn't become deep by being careless with their money.

[Sal333]

17 hours ago, ted said:

Which would be an excellent result.

Not if Bontis and Cochrane are handling it.

[The Real Marc]

11 hours ago, RS said:

"Please Mr. CSA Man, we know we just earned you a (minimum) $10 million cheque through our own work and talent, but we are just so gosh darn grateful to be on such a platform as the World Cup that you should take all of this money and not tell anyone what you're doing with it."

I get this angle, but I think many of the players would be fine with minimal improvements in transparency if their financial and ticket demands were met. The idea that the CanMNT players all of a sudden on the brink of a World Cup prioritise CSA financial transparency is endearingly simplistic. They only care about transparency as far as it meets their aims - more money. I mean, these are the guys (many of them well heeled) asking for free World Cup tickets for their families. I'm not sure they're in it for the principles here.

Edited July 14, 2022 by The Real Marc

[Colonel Green]

7 hours ago, SpecialK said:

Ok maybe someone has already spoke about this but I still don’t understand. The CSB deal and the CPL. Ok look I get the rights to Show the games - that’s ok, I understand that. The sponsorship deals I don’t get. The CSA and CPL should have their own sponsors and separate dealings why is it linked ? why does the CPL need the CSA to get sponsorships deals and vice versa. 

The CPL isn’t getting sponsorship deals from the CSA, it is getting a de facto subsidy in the form of all the sponsorship deals the CSA signs for the national team. 

[RS]

59 minutes ago, The Real Marc said:

I get this angle, but I think many of the players would be fine with minimal improvements in transparency if their financial and ticket demands were met. The idea that the CanMNT players all of a sudden on the brink of a World Cup prioritise CSA financial transparency is endearingly simplistic. They only care about transparency as far as it meets their aims - more money. I mean, these are the guys (many of them well heeled) asking for free World Cup tickets for their families. I'm not sure they're in it for the principles here.

Yes, my incredibly hyperbolic made-up quote was simplistic. 

I'm not trying to be antagonistic with you, but I thought that was painfully obvious. Mine was an intentionally ridiculous response to an equally ridiculous comment (one of many in this thread and in the Players vs. CSA thread) by SpursFlu.