Canadian Soccer Business (CSB)

[prairiecanuck]

2 hours ago, SpecialK said:

See that’s the issue. Is 3 million a year over 10 years the right value - me I don’t think so, it was very short cited on the CSA. 
 

the CSB and CPL are one and the same. So basically the CSA gave the media rights away for 3 million a year and private CPL owners( Bob young ) sold it for 20 million. Ok so how does that help the national team ? Bob young doesn’t need 20 million he’s a fucking billionaire. If forge loses money he rights it off on his taxes. 
 

The CSB got a great deal from the CSA. It was an horrible deal for the CSA looking at it now. 

Are you dense?  Bob young didn't sell the rights to CAN soccer games that he paid 3 million for 20 mil an pocket 17 mil.  He sold hundreds of Canadian premier league games and handful of Canadian soccer league games to media pro.  He promised media pro a bunch of experienced sports business owners marketing and growing the sport in 8 markets initially with the hope of expanding 10 or 12 markets where subscription revenue would be possible.

If you think anyone, even this current world cup qualifying team Canada, is going to pay a million or 2 million dollars per game for the broadcasts you are delusional.  

The money from media pro that isn't paid to the CSA doesn't get pocketed by Bob Young.  It is distributed to the CPL teams evenly and if you think that sum of money is enough for these teams owners to be raking it in and making money had over fist again, you are delusional.  It's enough to keep them afloat.  I highly doubt every CPL franchise is in the black.

[SpecialK]

7 minutes ago, prairiecanuck said:

Are you dense?  Bob young didn't sell the rights to CAN soccer games that he paid 3 million for 20 mil an pocket 17 mil.  He sold hundreds of Canadian premier league games and handful of Canadian soccer league games to media pro.  He promised media pro a bunch of experienced sports business owners marketing and growing the sport in 8 markets initially with the hope of expanding 10 or 12 markets where subscription revenue would be possible.

If you think anyone, even this current world cup qualifying team Canada, is going to pay a million or 2 million dollars per game for the broadcasts you are delusional.  

The money from media pro that isn't paid to the CSA doesn't get pocketed by Bob Young.  It is distributed to the CPL teams evenly and if you think that sum of money is enough for these teams owners to be raking it in and making money had over fist again, you are delusional.  It's enough to keep them afloat.  I highly doubt every CPL franchise is in the black.

So mediapro didn’t pay CSB 200million over 10 years for the rights of the CPL and Canadian national teams? Andi is wrong when she said that ? 
 

also who runs the CSB - Scott Mitchell- who’s Bob Young right hand man oh wait Scott Mitchell. The CPL is practically run by Bob Young. The CSB is the CPL. 
 

so what the fuck are we talk about it here. The facts are simple. The CSB is getting $20 million a year from media Pro. Whatever the fuck they do with the money is there business. The CSA gets $3 million a year guaranteed with this agreement from CSB. MediaPro can sell games to whoever they want because they bought the rights from CSB. 

[BradMack]

46 minutes ago, SpecialK said:

I am very Anti-CSA because they are a bunch of clowns running around. The CSB I’m on the fence. I don’t trust the CSB why because how secret they are and I have read their hands are not just in media rights. For example they got the gatorade deal but again no details on it. Plus why did Mitchell get so pissy and defensive before when Rollins was digging into the details. I really do think that a billionaire , bunch of business people who are smart took advantage of the CSA because the CSA was desperate Victor wanted his World Cup and the board is full of dumb non-business people. 

do I think the CSA could’ve got a TV deal worth $20 million based on Canadian national team  content  no I don’t . Do I think they could’ve got a better deal than $3 million yes. Because right now that 3 million dollar deal is hurting our program and Association. It has tied our hands behide your backs. This whole blaming COVID for being broke is bullshit- just plan bullshit lies why - The Canadian government bailed them out and pay 75% of wages plus grants and loans for nonprofits, FIFA also had massive loans and grants that they were giving out to all associations who asked for them. 
Do I believe that the CSB/that deal was created to help Victor get his World Cup yes I do. 

You're not really offering anything other than opinions here though.

Please explain how you think the CSA could've gotten more than 3 mil per year, especially during years before 2022. 

Also please explain your how the government and fifa grants were going to pay for the incredible professional scouting, programming, chartered flights, and camps herdman has put on throughout qualifying which were unlike anything previously seen in Canadian soccer. 

Also, what do you think the value is of having a national league for our future mens and womens teams. 

I understand CSA hate, and that people generally distrust business men. But please try to answer these questions, if you can't, maybe you should think a little harder about your opinions because these are the very core issues. 

[SpecialK]

Incredible professional scouting from the CSA ?? Mate where have you been? We have been complaining for years for the CSA to start a scouting department ? 

[prairiecanuck]

1 minute ago, SpecialK said:

So mediapro didn’t pay CSB 200million over 10 years for the rights of the CPL and Canadian national teams? Andi is wrong when she said that ? 
 

also who runs the CSB - Scott Mitchell- who’s Bob Young right hand man oh wait Scott Mitchell. The CPL is practically run by Bob Young. The CSB is the CPL. 
 

so what the fuck are we talk about it here. The facts are simple. The CSB is getting $20 million a year from media Pro. Whatever the fuck they do with the money is there business. The CSA gets $3 million a year guaranteed with this agreement from CSB. MediaPro can sell games to whoever they want because they bought the rights from CSB. 

Yes, they paid 20 mil for CPL and Canadian national league games.  You said the CSB gave CSA 3 mil and sold the rights to Mediapro for 20 mil. Those are 2 different statements.  Without the CPL there is no deal.  The CPL plays 20 times more games than Canada. 

You ignore the fact that in 2018 Sportsnet offered 0 dollars.  They thought the fair market value of games was 0.  10 years times 0 is still 0.  

The CSB doesn't get 20 mil from Media pro without the guarantee of 100s of games a year.  Mediapro did not pay 20 mil for the CAN Soccer games and the CSB just decided, well we have an extra 17 mil, let's start a soccer league.  If they hadn't started the soccer league and combined it with CAN soccer games they wouldn't have got 20 mil from mediapro.  

[prairiecanuck]

8 minutes ago, BradMack said:

You're not really offering anything other than opinions here though.

Please explain how you think the CSA could've gotten more than 3 mil per year, especially during years before 2022. 

Also please explain your how the government and fifa grants were going to pay for the incredible professional scouting, programming, chartered flights, and camps herdman has put on throughout qualifying which were unlike anything previously seen in Canadian soccer. 

Also, what do you think the value is of having a national league for our future mens and womens teams. 

I understand CSA hate, and that people generally distrust business men. But please try to answer these questions, if you can't, maybe you should think a little harder about your opinions because these are the very core issues. 

They couldn't.  Craig forest who works with the other networks has come out an said, there was no money for Canada soccer in 2018.  The money they got from the CSB in 2019 and 2020, 2021 was way more than anyone else was willing to pay.  Even now if you could put the rights out to market you might have one of the bigger networks pay 3 to 5 mil a year depending on the year. The team doesn't play that often.

[SpecialK]

6 minutes ago, prairiecanuck said:

Yes, they paid 20 mil for CPL and Canadian national league games.  You said the CSB gave CSA 3 mil and sold the rights to Mediapro for 20 mil. Those are 2 different statements.  Without the CPL there is no deal.  The CPL plays 20 times more games than Canada. 

You ignore the fact that in 2018 Sportsnet offered 0 dollars.  They thought the fair market value of games was 0.  10 years times 0 is still 0.  

The CSB doesn't get 20 mil from Media pro without the guarantee of 100s of games a year.  Mediapro did not pay 20 mil for the CAN Soccer games and the CSB just decided, well we have an extra 17 mil, let's start a soccer league.  If they hadn't started the soccer league and combined it with CAN soccer games they wouldn't have got 20 mil from mediapro.  

In 2018 Canada played four games? Three of them are versus Caribbean minnows and one versus New Zealand’s B/C in an empty stadium in Spain. No one is buying that…. That’s on the CSA. Oh wait who got fired just before that Oz and who was hired Herdman. So I guess most of money went into paying two coaches. 
 

Edited June 8, 2022 by SpecialK

[BradMack]

12 minutes ago, SpecialK said:

Incredible professional scouting from the CSA ?? Mate where have you been? We have been complaining for years for the CSA to start a scouting department ? 

John Herdman has great resources to scout and gameplan vs our opponents, which the players have been raving about. You conviently ignored everything else I asked you to answer because I honestly think you just want to yell about this conspiracy theory you've got going on in your head. Please answer the questions if you want to continue. 

[BradMack]

9 minutes ago, prairiecanuck said:

They couldn't.  Craig forest who works with the other networks has come out an said, there was no money for Canada soccer in 2018.  The money they got from the CSB in 2019 and 2020, 2021 was way more than anyone else was willing to pay.  Even now if you could put the rights out to market you might have one of the bigger networks pay 3 to 5 mil a year depending on the year. The team doesn't play that often.

I know, I'm just trying to explain that hahah, although we disagree on how much they could currently get for the rights. I think its much much lower than 3 mil, especially when without onesoccer, those networks would need to invest in producing the games which is expensive. 600k - 1.3m viewers isn't worth a lot when its unpredictable and only happens 6/10 times per year. We're also ignoring that we will not have WCQ between 2022 and 2026, our friendlies have not drawn many viewers and outside the USA game, neither has nations league, which would be all CSA would've had to sell as they don't control Gold Cup or World Cup rights. 

[prairiecanuck]

15 minutes ago, SpecialK said:

In 2018 Canada played four games? Three of them are versus Caribbean minnows and one versus New Zealand’s B/C in an empty stadium in Spain. No one is buying that…. That’s on the CSA. Oh wait who got fired just before that Oz and who was hired Herdman. So I guess most of money went into paying two coaches. 
 

You seem to be muddling things and have nothing but pure venom for the CSA and anything they do is wrong, because well they are the CSA.

The CSA scheduled Iran.  That was bad.  The CSA's communication with the players has been bad.  Do some people need to be replaced.  Sure.  Are there likely some really good people working within the CSA, well that's likely too.  Was the deal struck in 2018 actually a pretty good deal at the time.  Yeah, I think it was.  The people who aren't necessarily doing the best job still care about soccer and in many cases aren't being paid.  They just aren't very good at their job despite their best efforts and we need more than just people who try their best.  We need people who can execute. 

\\

[SpecialK]

5 minutes ago, prairiecanuck said:

You seem to be muddling things and have nothing but pure venom for the CSA and anything they do is wrong, because well they are the CSA.

The CSA scheduled Iran.  That was bad.  The CSA's communication with the players has been bad.  Do some people need to be replaced.  Sure.  Are there likely some really good people working within the CSA, well that's likely too.  Was the deal struck in 2018 actually a pretty good deal at the time.  Yeah, I think it was.  The people who aren't necessarily doing the best job still care about soccer and in many cases aren't being paid.  They just aren't very good at their job despite their best efforts and we need more than just people who try their best.  We need people who can execute. 

\\

Well it’s not just me who thinks the CSA is run by a bunch of clowns, who would screw up a one car funeral. Have you not listen to podcast with former players? And read the comments and all the media. 

[narduch]

Forrest was saying on Footy Prime that the CSA used to similar deals with IMG before the CSB deal. But it was more around $1 million per year.

[Kadenge]

Do we know if corporate sponsorship revenue was also part of the deal or was it just media rights

[Aird25]

There's some absolutely wild speculation about CSB and CPL going on. I just don't get it. What they've done seems like something we desperately needed, and I really don't think anyone is getting rich off this. Is this all stemming from the one line in the men's letter?

[SpursFlu]

The CPL has turned in to such a cash cow that an owner decided to hand in his keys and just walk away. I think the last thing the league said to him was

"Are you sure you want to do this? You'll lose out on the millions of dollars were about to steal from those dumb players on the men's national team"

[Cheeta]

14 hours ago, prairiecanuck said:

Yes, they paid 20 mil for CPL and Canadian national league games.  You said the CSB gave CSA 3 mil and sold the rights to Mediapro for 20 mil. Those are 2 different statements.  Without the CPL there is no deal.  The CPL plays 20 times more games than Canada. 

You ignore the fact that in 2018 Sportsnet offered 0 dollars.  They thought the fair market value of games was 0.  10 years times 0 is still 0.  

The CSB doesn't get 20 mil from Media pro without the guarantee of 100s of games a year.  Mediapro did not pay 20 mil for the CAN Soccer games and the CSB just decided, well we have an extra 17 mil, let's start a soccer league.  If they hadn't started the soccer league and combined it with CAN soccer games they wouldn't have got 20 mil from mediapro.  

Yeah, there's waaay too much disconnect being blah-blah-blahhed around.  

For what little we do know it's still a Hell of a deal for the CSA and Canadian soccer as a whole.  As more details come out it might look less beneficial but I'm having a hard time imaging the conditions that would be written into the contract to change my mind.   

[Approve My Account Pls]

Question I had that I am not sure if anyone on here will be able to answer. If the CSB are responsible for sponsorships, when a Go Go Squeeze or Gatorade or Storage Canada or future sponsors come to endorse the National Teams, does all that money go to the CSA or does it go to the CSB who will still only pay the CSA $3M a year? 

I'm seeing a lot of people talk about the CSB being great for the game, and I'm not arguing that their work with CPL and League 1 Canada isn't benefical, but, like the players of both teams, I'm curious to know the inner workings of the deal. The World Cup windfall should by no means be JUST the FIFA money. If more sponsors have been and are still coming on board, why does the CSA remain so cash strapped?

[narduch]

Just now, Approve My Account Pls said:

Question I had that I am not sure if anyone on here will be able to answer. If the CSB are responsible for sponsorships, when a Go Go Squeeze or Gatorade or Storage Canada or future sponsors come to endorse the National Teams, does all that money go to the CSA or does it go to the CSB who will still only pay the CSA $3M a year? 

I'm seeing a lot of people talk about the CSB being great for the game, and I'm not arguing that their work with CPL and League 1 Canada isn't benefical, but, like the players of both teams, I'm curious to know the inner workings of the deal. The World Cup windfall should by no means be JUST the FIFA money. If more sponsors have been and are still coming on board, why does the CSA remain so cash strapped?

Nobody knows for sure.

One thing that is interesting is that they have a lot of the same big sponsors 

[Ally McCoist]

1 hour ago, Approve My Account Pls said:

Question I had that I am not sure if anyone on here will be able to answer. If the CSB are responsible for sponsorships, when a Go Go Squeeze or Gatorade or Storage Canada or future sponsors come to endorse the National Teams, does all that money go to the CSA or does it go to the CSB who will still only pay the CSA $3M a year? 

I'm seeing a lot of people talk about the CSB being great for the game, and I'm not arguing that their work with CPL and League 1 Canada isn't benefical, but, like the players of both teams, I'm curious to know the inner workings of the deal. The World Cup windfall should by no means be JUST the FIFA money. If more sponsors have been and are still coming on board, why does the CSA remain so cash strapped?

This is the million dollar question (no pun intended). A lot of people who have been supporting the CSB deal are gonna like idiots when it's made aware just how much of the increased revenue gets shunted to the CSB.

[youllneverwalkalone]

I would love to be one of the idiots if all this mythical cash is going to the CPL. 

But you're right, Bob Young is probably spending it all on coke and hookers. Seems like something he'd do.

 

[Aird25]

2 hours ago, Approve My Account Pls said:

Question I had that I am not sure if anyone on here will be able to answer. If the CSB are responsible for sponsorships, when a Go Go Squeeze or Gatorade or Storage Canada or future sponsors come to endorse the National Teams, does all that money go to the CSA or does it go to the CSB who will still only pay the CSA $3M a year? 

I'm seeing a lot of people talk about the CSB being great for the game, and I'm not arguing that their work with CPL and League 1 Canada isn't benefical, but, like the players of both teams, I'm curious to know the inner workings of the deal. The World Cup windfall should by no means be JUST the FIFA money. If more sponsors have been and are still coming on board, why does the CSA remain so cash strapped?

I really don't know, but based on recent deals, I don't think sponsorships will necessary be with just National Teams, but may very well instead be with an integrated partnership between the National Teams and the Canadian Premier League and clubs through CSB. That's how it was worded for Go Go Squeeze. I think the real question is where that money then gets reinvested (national teams, CPL, League 1, CSA, grass roots, elsewhere), and who decides that. I'm also curious whether all deals will be for this integrated partnership, and split the same way, or if CSB are willing to negotiate for say the men's team or League 1  independently. I imagine there's value in doing both 

Edited June 8, 2022 by Aird25

[Cheeta]

49 minutes ago, youllneverwalkalone said:

I would love to be one of the idiots if all this mythical cash is going to the CPL. 

But you're right, Bob Young is probably spending it all on coke and hookers. Seems like something he'd do.

 

I'll 2nd the motion.

The deal was 200 millions over 10 years yes?  Cash and services.  Sounds like it's $3,000,000 per cash to the CSA, broadcasting every single NT match that somebody else doesn't already own the rights to, funds to the CPL clubs (how much?), and probably the greatest expense, developing a media infrastructure to get these matches on the air.  

So call it a $20 millions per expense and anybody is worried about CSB taking a percentage of incoming revenue streams THEY found for the CSA?  O-kay.

If the players want to know the nuts and bolts of the deal, quite right.  Hope there isn't a non disclosure attached to the deal.

But don't really know how that changes anything, for the players anyway.  So what if CSB gets a cut of the Prize Money?  Not their problem.  How the CSA comes up with that value is their problem.  Least that's what I'd tell them.  

 

[red card]

York Schulich professor at 5:21 calls out Voyageurs on Facebook for being clueless on CSB.

 

[CanadianTraveller]

52 minutes ago, red card said:

York Schulich professor at 5:21 calls out Voyageurs on Facebook for being clueless on CSB.

Ummm....Voyageur calling out fellow Vs for being clueless. And if someone should be upset about the cancellation, it's the guy who flew the furthest to not watch Panama Sunday. At least he enjoyed Vancouver Island. Hope his fellow members are listening and learning....

[SpursFlu]

I dont know comrades.. this CSB sounds like some evil capitalism double talk to me. I think we should blow up the CSA and CSB and create a community collective where we all just share the revenue and after training the players and staff can tend to the community garden plot

Edited June 9, 2022 by SpursFlu