Canadian Soccer Business (CSB)

[narduch]

10 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Is it possible for the big dogs to get the big matches with the remaining matches being streamed somewhere, like a OS equivalent of sorts, or even on the streaming only services like TSN+ or whatever it is?

My guess is we end up with something similar to what CEBL or PWHL have.

[Obinna]

7 minutes ago, narduch said:

My guess is we end up with something similar to what CEBL or PWHL have.

And how does it work for the Canadian Elite Basketball League (which I had to look up because I never knew what CEBL stood for)?

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

7 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Is it possible for the big dogs to get the big matches with the remaining matches being streamed somewhere, ...

Worth bearing in mind that they had to get a sponsor to pay to have the recent CWNT game in Victoria onto cable. With no WC qualifiers on the horizon there really isn't a lot available from CSB over the next couple of years that TSN and Sportsnet are likely to want to pay a rights fee for other than maybe the final of the Canadian Championship and any friendlies in the immediate run up to the 2026 WC.

The big problem is that somebody is going to have to pick up the production costs to stream the rest of the inventory and that's highly likely to be CSB at this point whereas prior to yesterday it would have been Mediapro. Suspect we could easily be seeing a one camera type youtube stream approach a lot of the time. The big question now is whether the CSB investors would be willing to pay for the production costs and possibly even the air time to be able to have a game of the week on mainstream cable?

[dyslexic nam]

58 minutes ago, Ottawafan said:

How is that in the best interests of the NT's tho?  They should be separate.

I never claimed it was in the best interest of the NTs.  Your original post (to which I was responding) asked "Why should CPL games be tethered to the NT’s?"   I was simply pointing out that CSB is the rightsholder to both and it makes sense (from their perspective) to bundle the two together. 

 

Look, I know how you feel about it - you have made no secret of the fact that you are 100% behind the national team players.  Further, you seem to view CSB as essentially one step away from being con artists who managed to swindle the national association and in turn the players.  Setting aside the fact that I think reality is far more nuanced than that (where all parties bear at least some responsibility for the current clusterfuck that is Canadian soccer) the reality is that CSB has a broad mandate to grow the game (all aspects of it) in Canada.  That goes beyond the interests of the NTs  and encompasses their interest in sustaining our domestic pro league.  I get that it isn't altruism since they have a commercial interest in the league.  That approach also does not best serve the immediate interests of the NTs.  But it may serve the long term interests of those who place value in CPL and think it is a crucial piece of the puzzle when it comes to the continued growth of footy in Canada. 

[narduch]

12 minutes ago, Obinna said:

And how does it work for the Canadian Elite Basketball League (which I had to look up because I never knew what CEBL stood for)?

I think they are in CBC Gem for the most part. With the occasional game on TSN that the league pays production costs

[Metro]

37 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

This makes me wonder: CSB sees that the regulator is about to force the hand of Rogers to show OS content, and they think: once we get that we don't need OS. We can "repatriate" it and get the benefits directly, instead of them going through MedioPro's hands. 

I'm speculating. But it could reek of hey, while you are useful to us, great. The moment you are not, we're out.

Or, it is possible CSB already has a deal with Rogers (and/or Bell) where the company can now go back to the CRTC with: "see, we are doing what you ordered us to do and making this CanCon available on our networks, but in a more direct way.  Win/win." 

[Metro]

15 minutes ago, Obinna said:

And how does it work for the Canadian Elite Basketball League (which I had to look up because I never knew what CEBL stood for)?

 

34 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Is it possible for the big dogs to get the big matches with the remaining matches being streamed somewhere, like a OS equivalent of sorts, or even on the streaming only services like TSN+ or whatever it is?

Kind of like the way you described it in your previous post.  TSN+ televises all games with one or two a week on the network.  All playoff games were televised on TSN IIRC.  Production handled by CEBL who struck a deal with MediaPro.

[RS]

37 minutes ago, SpursFlu said:

Sportsnet already have regional coverage for their NHL coverage. I could see regional coverage for CPL game and all games on Sportsnet World

I ranted about this before but TSN needs to go back to a more regional coverage as well. As a BC person it's way too Toronto focused. If TSN starts to bring in more domestic properties it may force them to do that

All of TSN's NHL coverage is regional. Sportsnet owns national NHL rights.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

22 minutes ago, Metro said:

Or, it is possible CSB already has a deal with Rogers (and/or Bell) where the company can now go back to the CRTC with: "see, we are doing what you ordered us to do and making this CanCon available on our networks, but in a more direct way.  Win/win." 

It was Onesoccer that was going to be shown as a speciality channel with Mediapro providing the content for Timeless Inc. Onesoccer is almost certainly dead at this point. Unless Timeless Inc (i.e. CSB) is willing to take on the expense of doing in house what Onesoccer was doing previously on content then the CRTC ruling is a red herring now.

Edited January 26 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[dyslexic nam]

1 hour ago, Cheeta said:

Not that there is ever a good time for these situations to occur but Geez, with the Copa America coming up this summer the timing couldn't be worse.   I know TSN will be broadcasting but I seriously doubt they'd do the tourney the same level of ancillary service that One soccer would have.

For me, that is the biggest pain point in all of this.  NT games could get back on mainstream sorts networks.  CBC may pick up a weekly game that provides huge league exposure.  etc. 

But no matter what happens, I don't see a scenario where we have anything like the kind of dedicated, quality Canadian footy coverage that OS provided.  Whether or not it was a wise gamble, OS bet on the fact that a growing interest in Canadian soccer would support the kind of intensive, focused treatment they gave it.  And while it may not have been sustainable, it sure was pretty. 

[PegCityCam]

21 minutes ago, Obinna said:

And how does it work for the Canadian Elite Basketball League (which I had to look up because I never knew what CEBL stood for)?

Just a side note: In Winnipeg we averaged 5500 a game and had an attendance high of over 8000. Somebody in marketing needs a raise because the way it was rolled out was an absolute masterclass in promotion, engagement and just knowing your fanbase in general.

[JamboAl]

36 minutes ago, Obinna said:

And how does it work for the Canadian Elite Basketball League (which I had to look up because I never knew what CEBL stood for)?

I have season tickets to the CEBL and it’s good entertainment and okay basketball.  But the CPL outdraws the CEBL in Ottawa.  

[Shway]

12 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

But no matter what happens, I don't see a scenario where we have anything like the kind of dedicated, quality Canadian footy coverage that OS provided.  
 

But what coverage are we talking about... the OneSoccer today? The content on YouTube? I think that's something the CPL should take on as they're in house media. 

What's it for KJ, Jenkins, Wilson, Andi, Wheeler, and Pratt to be hired by the CPL as their new media team. They do exactly what they were doing with OneSoccer. Heck takeover the OneSoccer studios and rebrand it as the CPL studio. Theres not much "production" involved with that. Leave all the game day stuff to TSN or Sportsnet.

[dyslexic nam]

1 minute ago, Shway said:

But what coverage are we talking about... the OneSoccer today? The content on YouTube? I think that's something the CPL should take on as they're in house media. 

What's it for KJ, Jenkins, Wilson, Andi, Wheeler, and Pratt to be hired by the CPL as their new media team. They do exactly what they were doing with OneSoccer. Heck takeover the OneSoccer studios and rebrand it as the CPL studio. Theres not much "production" involved with that. Leave all the game day stuff to TSN or Sportsnet.

I have no idea what your professional background is but I am quite sure that hiring 6 on camera people (plus whatever production people support it - cameramen, editors, writers, etc) and taking over a whole new business line is not a minor endeavor.  I am not a media guy but I am do manage people and operational activities, and what you are describing would be a large undertaking - especially at a time when the league administrators will be focused on securing the future of the core deliverables. 

[Watchmen]

33 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

For me, that is the biggest pain point in all of this.  NT games could get back on mainstream sorts networks.  CBC may pick up a weekly game that provides huge league exposure.  etc. 

But no matter what happens, I don't see a scenario where we have anything like the kind of dedicated, quality Canadian footy coverage that OS provided.  Whether or not it was a wise gamble, OS bet on the fact that a growing interest in Canadian soccer would support the kind of intensive, focused treatment they gave it.  And while it may not have been sustainable, it sure was pretty. 

Yeah, I think we've been spoiled over the last 5 years with some of the coverage. No waiting until the day before a NT game to find out if it was going to be televised. Some pre/post game discussion (even if we want to debate some of the quality of it). Things will be better than they were pre-2019, but it won't be what it's been.

[red card]

13 minutes ago, Metro said:

 

Kind of like the way you described it in your previous post.  TSN+ televises all games with one or two a week on the network.  All playoff games were televised on TSN IIRC.  Production handled by CEBL who struck a deal with MediaPro.

Mediapro did CEBL games that were on CBC TV. They largely used AI cameras. CEBL on CBC tv audience was same to lower than CPL on CBC.

Last season, CEBL went with a number of companies to handle their broadcasts, digital content, streaming platform & stats. 13 games were on linear TSN and rest on TSN+. All games were also available for free on CEBL+. TSN paid nothing for rights or production. No specific tv audience numbers released which means it wasn't notable.

NWSL did a similar deal last year for Canada. All matches were freely streamed on their website but a few matches were shown on linear TSN and a bit more were on TSN+. Again, no rights fee paid & NWSL took care of production via the same Florida-based company that MLS used for matches shown on Fox.

PWHL has all games free on their Youtube channel. They got 15-20k concurrent viewers in the first week and then 10-15k in the second week. They have also split the games between TSN/TSN+/RDS, SN/SN+ and CBC/Gem. PWHL is taking care of production but CBC has done their own studio show. TSN/SN carries the feed as is. No rights fee paid. Opening game on New Year's Day was shown on 3 networks and got 878k.

 

 

[narduch]

The quality of the PWHL broadcasts, from the portions I've seen, have been excellent 

[narduch]

HFX Wanderers owner telling us not to worry. 

 

 

[SpursFlu]

1 hour ago, dyslexic nam said:

I never claimed it was in the best interest of the NTs.  Your original post (to which I was responding) asked "Why should CPL games be tethered to the NT’s?"   I was simply pointing out that CSB is the rightsholder to both and it makes sense (from their perspective) to bundle the two together. 

 

Look, I know how you feel about it - you have made no secret of the fact that you are 100% behind the national team players.  Further, you seem to view CSB as essentially one step away from being con artists who managed to swindle the national association and in turn the players.  Setting aside the fact that I think reality is far more nuanced than that (where all parties bear at least some responsibility for the current clusterfuck that is Canadian soccer) the reality is that CSB has a broad mandate to grow the game (all aspects of it) in Canada.  That goes beyond the interests of the NTs  and encompasses their interest in sustaining our domestic pro league.  I get that it isn't altruism since they have a commercial interest in the league.  That approach also does not best serve the immediate interests of the NTs.  But it may serve the long term interests of those who place value in CPL and think it is a crucial piece of the puzzle when it comes to the continued growth of footy in Canada. 

I'm actually more concerned with the best interest of the CPL then the national team. The national team will always exist as long as there is a nation. How much people care about it and the quality on it is dependent on the future of the CPL

[Obinna]

1 hour ago, Metro said:

 

Kind of like the way you described it in your previous post.  TSN+ televises all games with one or two a week on the network.  All playoff games were televised on TSN IIRC.  Production handled by CEBL who struck a deal with MediaPro.

That seems to be the best case outcome so long as there is upkeep with the content creation, as @Shway eluded to. But as @dyslexic nam suggests, it may or may not be quite the endeavor to have all the pundits and camera folk switch to a CPL in-house setup. 

Whatever ends up happening, I hope it's for the better. Maybe I am in a bubble, but the OS content since 2019 has given Canada Soccer a media presence we've never had before. We can't have that disappear.

[SpursFlu]

1 hour ago, PegCityCam said:

Just a side note: In Winnipeg we averaged 5500 a game and had an attendance high of over 8000. Somebody in marketing needs a raise because the way it was rolled out was an absolute masterclass in promotion, engagement and just knowing your fanbase in general.

The Calgary CEBL league will play a few games in the Saddledome next year and the new Quebec team will play in the 15k arena. These decisions were based on Winnipegs success.

My point is I dont think TSN/Sportsnet can pretend there is 1 city in a country the size of a continent for much longer. And if they don't get involved with these endeavors, they're going to miss out. Plus they can't continue to try and block everything. They must feels it's an eventual losing battle 

Edited January 26 by SpursFlu

[Shway]

15 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

I have no idea what your professional background is but I am quite sure that hiring 6 on camera people (plus whatever production people support it - cameramen, editors, writers, etc) and taking over a whole new business line is not a minor endeavor.  I am not a media guy but I am do manage people and operational activities, and what you are describing would be a large undertaking - especially at a time when the league administrators will be focused on securing the future of the core deliverables. 

You didn't answer the question though...about 90% of the OneSoccer content is done from people's home. Meaning a lot of it doesn't require this sophisticated "production" you speak of.

And if the company (CPL) was willing to let go of a big piece of their marketing (OneSoccer), don't you think they would try to replace it somehow. 

Weekly Previews, Weekly Reviews in a studio. The rest is made from home content put out the CPL YT page. 

It doesn't sound as crazy as you want to put it. 

[dyslexic nam]

2 minutes ago, Shway said:

You didn't answer the question though...about 90% of the OneSoccer content is done from people's home. Meaning a lot of it doesn't require this sophisticated "production" you speak of.

And if the company (CPL) was willing to let go of a big piece of their marketing (OneSoccer), don't you think they would try to replace it somehow. 

Weekly Previews, Weekly Reviews in a studio. The rest is made from home content put out the CPL YT page. 

It doesn't sound as crazy as you want to put it. 

They do pre- and post-game coverage, play by play, promo and hype vids for their products, highlight reel clip spots, etc.  Sure they do the vlog format stuff, but there is a lot more to it. 

 

I am sure you could do some of it on the cheap.  And a scaled down version of what we have seen may be the best-case (plausible) scenario unless there is a blockbuster deal in the works that we don't know about.  But the on-air personalities themselves would command a certain wage and there are still going to be costs to producing even scaled-down content. Plus we aren't just talking about CPL - some of the best value-add for me was the NT coverage extras.  And I don't see why CPL itself would have an interest in investing in that. 

My main point is just that CPL can't easily turn on and sustain what OS was doing.    

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

Worth a listen:

https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/fp-news-dubs-the-drama-continues-csb-cpl-mediapro/id1482039221?i=1000643094543

Apparently the Mediapro exec who championed the Canadian operation got ousted from the Mediapro board of directors by Chinese investors and Onesoccer employees knew last year that the gig was probably up. You need 100k viewers to make full scale sports broadcasts work and a figure of 1500 was mentioned in passing on what they may have been drawing. Talk from Craig Forrest that he could have saved them tens of milliions and that they were idiots for thinking it would work. Lack of knowledge of Canada highlighted. Beyond that lots of criticism for Sportsnet and TSN with some justification obviously.

[Unnamed Trialist]

2 hours ago, dyslexic nam said:

I have no idea what your professional background is but I am quite sure that hiring 6 on camera people (plus whatever production people support it - cameramen, editors, writers, etc) and taking over a whole new business line is not a minor endeavor.  I am not a media guy but I am do manage people and operational activities, and what you are describing would be a large undertaking - especially at a time when the league administrators will be focused on securing the future of the core deliverables. 

I agree, they were spending a lot of money. And on Josh and Alex as well. 

Which makes me think: Deming going back to his YT platform and relaunching of sorts JDDTV, like a week, ten days ago, was the first small indication of a possible shift taking place. Or maybe the second small indicator: Kristian Jack sort of disappearing. Perhaps they already had word and there were little shake-ups. 

Especially if Deming has to go back to not getting income from One Soccer, he has to rebuild his already decent YT channel and try to drive income from there.