Canadian Soccer Business (CSB)

[Metro]

^^ Or - seeing that the CPL salary cap is increasing by over 18% next year - more cash for young, developing Canadian players?

[Kadenge]

2 hours ago, Ansem said:

More cash for CSB

v

This sure took a while to be finalized. Several months ago it was reported that a  CIBC   $1M/yr sponsorship deal was in the works. Does anyone know if that $ value still stands. Could explain the min salary bump for CPL  

[Kadenge]

2 hours ago, Metro said:

^^ Or - seeing that the CPL salary cap is increasing by over 18% next year - more cash for young, developing Canadian players?

We need CPL academies or proper functioning partnerships with localized club academies for that to truly work. The development has to start earlier.

[Meepmeep]

2 hours ago, Metro said:

^^ Or - seeing that the CPL salary cap is increasing by over 18% next year - more cash for young, developing Canadian players?

How about we correct this to

Or - seeing that the CPL salary cap is increasing by over 18% next year - more cash for young, developing Canadian male players?

 

I wonder how the women that will be wearing the CIBC badges feel about that.  

 

It'd be an interesting survey.  Which sponsorship brings more value to the brand.  Davies and BMO vs CPL and CIBC

 

[Bigandy]

3 minutes ago, Meepmeep said:

How about we correct this to

Or - seeing that the CPL salary cap is increasing by over 18% next year - more cash for young, developing Canadian male players?

 

I wonder how the women that will be wearing the CIBC badges feel about that.  

 

It'd be an interesting survey.  Which sponsorship brings more value to the brand.  Davies and BMO vs CPL and CIBC

 

This seems like a really weird thing to say. 

CSB is the one who negotiated the deal with cibc. They also get the revenue. Its private business. CSB is then reinvesting their revenues into our of their products which happens to be the cpl. 

Both the mens and womens national team players are wearing the CIBC badge and none of them see any revenues. To reiterate, no one wearing the CIBC badge gets any financial compensation from it. So why try to turn this into a battle of the genders. 

The real issue here is that the money is going from CSA to CSB. 

At least CSB is using some money to help others, rather than line the pockets of a CEO. 

[CanadianSoccerFan]

 

 

 

 

[Vasi]

1 hour ago, Kadenge said:

We need CPL academies or proper functioning partnerships with localized club academies for that to truly work. The development has to start earlier.

We need u 15, 16, 17, 18, 19 camps to prevent another Mitrovic or Tomori. 

The CPL are academies in a way. They got enough money from the nat team sponsors. Its time to lay the groundwork for 2026 by investing in the nat program. The talent is there, it needs to be retained in a Canada shirt.

[Dominic94]

28 minutes ago, Vasi said:

We need u 15, 16, 17, 18, 19 camps to prevent another Mitrovic or Tomori. 

The CPL are academies in a way. They got enough money from the nat team sponsors. Its time to lay the groundwork for 2026 by investing in the nat program. The talent is there, it needs to be retained in a Canada shirt.

Tomori ? He barely lived and played here.

hate to say it but there will be many many more Mitrovics.

[Watchmen]

46 minutes ago, Vasi said:

The CPL are academies in a way. They got enough money from the nat team sponsors. Its time to lay the groundwork for 2026 by investing in the nat program. The talent is there, it needs to be retained in a Canada shirt.

I think the League 1s are more of the academies.

[Kadenge]

9 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

I think the League 1s are more of the academies.

what is the age group in League 1?

[RS]

2 hours ago, Bigandy said:

Both the mens and womens national team players are wearing the CIBC badge and none of them see any revenues. To reiterate, no one wearing the CIBC badge gets any financial compensation from it. So why try to turn this into a battle of the genders. 

Because the women's team is going to rightly ask why money that's partially made off their "product" is going only towards funding a men's league.

In fact, they've already been asking that question.

[Watchmen]

51 minutes ago, Kadenge said:

what is the age group in League 1?

L1 Ontario - 16+

L1 BC - 18+

I'm not sure on Quebec.

But in both Ontario and BC's cases, the best clubs seem to be the ones running academies as well, with the L1 team being at the top.  Also home to Whitecaps and TFC academies though.

[Shway]

56 minutes ago, Kadenge said:

what is the age group in League 1?

There definitely isn’t an age max. I know guys 30+ still playing in L1O.

[red card]

CIBC do state in their press release about supporting a pro women's league & M/W League 1 Canada.

"CIBC is excited to contribute to Canadian soccer's ongoing journey to build on the momentum of the sport from coast-to-coast-to-coast by helping enhance the growth of other properties that are core to the sport of soccer in Canada, such as Canada Soccer's Para Soccer National Team, League1 Canada and support for the development of the women's professional game."

I have read that certain other bank (s) didn't end up being sponsors because of not enough gender equity and community engagement.

I thought the CIBC manifesto was pretty good for a bank.

 

 

Edited November 11, 2022 by red card

[red card]

Bontis did a webcast for the national coaches association today. In terms of World Cup monies, he said:

"..Canadian men and women will get an equal share of the Qatar World Cup prize money. And if there's a fraction left over for the organization, guess what we're going to use that fraction for? It's going to be for Friends and Families. It's going to be used for other expenditures to make sure (national team coaches John Herdman and Bev Priestman) have everything they need to be successful in Doha this year and (at the Women's World Cup) in Australia and New Zealand next year. But it's also for the retention of staff.''

"And that includes John,'' he added. "So that type of conversation and negotiation I just want to assure you has been going on for months. Because we know that John's a very very hot commodity. We want to keep him here, 100 percent right through '22 and right through '26."

"But I'm a realist and I'm a pragmatist. I cannot guarantee anybody on this call that John is going to stay with this organization. There's certain realities that are out there, certain career aspirations that people have. Certain financial implications that we have and limitations.''

He also said any extra money coming out of the World Cup "will go to strengthening and stabilizing a women's professional league.''

But said Canada Soccer won't be launching the league or fund the clubs. "Investors do that.''

He also said an agreement with the women is 95% of the way there. 

Bontis said the Canadian governing body is a "tiny federation,'' with an annual budget of just over $20 million, competing against giants with budgets more than 20 times larger. And $9 million of the Canada Soccer revenue comes from player registration fees.

"So my job now is to help our organization increase capacity. That's the most important thing. Because we cannot stay as a $20-million organization any more. We have to come up with new revenue streams. We have to build new human capital. We have to build new programs.

Bontis said there is an opportunity to "grow the agreement" with Canada Soccer Business deal, through sports gambling and "hard liquor" avenues that were not available when the agreement was signed.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/article/canada-soccer-president-predicts-labour-talks-will-produce-epic-historical-deal/

https://www.timescolonist.com/soccer/canada-soccer-announces-multi-year-sponsorship-deal-with-cibc-6087835

Edited November 11, 2022 by red card

[Cheeta]

"hard liquor"??

Continue.....

 

[Bigandy]

2 hours ago, RS said:

Because the women's team is going to rightly ask why money that's partially made off their "product" is going only towards funding a men's league.

In fact, they've already been asking that question.

They are asking a question of why their product is funding csb. I wonder if the men’s team has ever asked that question.  Oh right… they went on strike.  

both programs are getting screwed with the csb deal. How csb spends their money is not the issue. The issue is that they are getting money from csa  

if the issue is that csb, a private organization is not funding both a mens and women’s league, then the way to solve this is to make both leagues.  However which national team player or fan would be happy with the csb agreement because they fund 2 leagues.  The issue is not a gender issue. The issue is that the money from csa is going to a private organization.  
 

the best thing for both the men’s and women’s national programs is to dissolve the csb agreement. 
 

I don’t understand why we would want to divide ourselves into a stupid gender based argument when the issue is the same for both national teams. 
 

Are the cmnt players happy with the deal just because there is a men’s league. Absolutely not!!  With every deal there will be both good and bad. The good part of the csb deal is a men’s league. But the men’s league and cmnt are very different.  
 

Should there be a women’s league. I’d love it…  i dont know the viability of it but I sure support it.  I support wc proceeds going to both.  But surely the best way to help both the men’s and women’s program is to properly identify the root cause of the issue and become unified trying to solve it.  If we get bogged down talking about a stupid gender argument, would we really be doing anything to help cmnt or cwnt.  
 

Furthermore, the cibc deal is pro both genders. So now the gender based argument is taking a big leap to create issues.  Should we criticize every sponsorship from now on as a pro for the men and a negative for the women, even though cibc is trying to support both. The cibc deal is as good as it gets for both genders given the circumstances of the csb agreement so the cibc deal is certainly not contributing to any gender inequality.  if there’s an issue with the cibc deal then it goes back to the fact that csa signed an agreement with csb. Not the sponsorship of cibc.  
 

I’ll finish off by saying, I want to support the women’s program just as much as the men. I firmly believe that bellyaching over the wrong issue is not going to help either.  The best way to help both programs is to do it together and not divide. 

[PegCityCam]

1 hour ago, Cheeta said:

"hard liquor"??

Continue.....

 

Aviation American Gin anyone?

[Unnamed Trialist]

If 9 million of the CSA 20 million budget is coming from youth player registration fees, is almost 50% of the CSA budget going to build and support youth soccer?

Or are we siphoning off the kids, player and club development, to pay for the elite adult teams?

I radically disagree with the model if that's the case.

Edited November 11, 2022 by Unnamed Trialist

[Shway]

7 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

If 9 million of the CSA 20 million budget is coming from youth player registration fees, is almost 50% of the CSA budget going to build and support youth soccer?

Or are we siphoning off the kids, player and club development, to pay for the elite adult teams?

I radically disagree with the model if that's the case.

This has beeeeeeeeeen the case brother.

Ive mentioned this, and pointed this out many times. 

We have a broken funnel. 

[Shway]

I honestly believe there needs to be a better way to implement a women’s professional league rather than using investors to eventually bleed money.

We honestly don’t know how the CPL would be doing without the CSB deal and the success of the CMNT. 

So here me out….

The CPL is near its 5th anniversary. 
MLS clubs are going on 15+ years of existing in the American setup.

Shouldn't we look at launching expansion teams in the NWSL, seeing how they do before splurging on a women’s coast to coast league?

The needs of the men’s game Vs the women’s has been completely different. Canadian women haven’t been overlooked like the men have. 

[Bigandy]

5 minutes ago, Shway said:

This has beeeeeeeeeen the case brother.

Ive mentioned this, and pointed this out many times. 

We have a broken funnel. 

Most youth teams do this too with paying for the clubs sr programs. 
 

Half of the revenues from Canada soccer come from youth soccer but only a small fee per youth player goes into the sr team.  What’s wrong with small fee per youth player going to our national team. Without it, we don’t have a sr men or women’s program.  Most of the revenue from youth programs stay in youth development.
 

Based on 10ish mil going across 750000 youth players would result in 10-15 $ per youth player. What does 10-15$ mean to youth development in Canada vs what 10 mil means to our sr teams .  

 

[Bigandy]

4 minutes ago, Shway said:

I honestly believe there needs to be a better way to implement a women’s professional league rather than using investors to eventually bleed money.

We honestly don’t know how the CPL would be doing without the CSB deal and the success of the CMNT. 

So here me out….

The CPL is near its 5th anniversary. 
MLS clubs are going on 15+ years of existing in the American setup.

Shouldn't we look at launching expansion teams in the NWSL, seeing how they do before splurging on a women’s coast to coast league?

The needs of the men’s game Vs the women’s has been completely different. Canadian women haven’t been overlooked like the men have. 

Who pays for the expansion into nwsl if not investors?

has csa overlooked Canadian women or just csb.  I agree the women have been overlooked but I think investors overlook women, not csa. You could make a case that signing the csb deal overlooks women. Or you could say the csb would generate 3 mil which is better than nothing(which is what they thought they’d have) And with the 3 mil goes along way to support both men and women. 

[Shway]

3 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

Most youth teams do this too with paying for the clubs sr programs. 
 

Half of the revenues from Canada soccer come from youth soccer but only a small fee per youth player goes into the sr team.  What’s wrong with small fee per youth player going to our national team. Without it, we don’t have a sr men or women’s program.  Most of the revenue from youth programs stay in youth development.
 

Based on 10ish mil going across 750000 youth players would result in 10-15 $ per youth player. What does 10-15$ mean to youth development in Canada vs what 10 mil means to our sr teams .  

 

Wait what…I might need you to reword this for me.

Near 50% of the CSA revenue comes from Player, Coach, and Referee registration fees.

Full stop. That’s the issue. They rely way to much on the community. (Side note, what was interesting is that the number increased in the hot year of the pandemic when a lot of sports were cancelled).

Then you look deeper into the cost to play the game here (specifically in Ontario) and the prices are crazzzzzzzzy. 

Then you look at the amount of youth camps we have, and question where the hell is the money going too…..

CSB deal was needed, but it is now horrible.

The senior national teams shouldn’t be funded by the parents. 

[Shway]

8 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

Who pays for the expansion into nwsl if not investors?

No one.

The CSA have already subsidized women’s players within that league.

8 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

has csa overlooked Canadian women or just csb.

The CSB, but they are business people, and less philanthropist.

8 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

 I agree the women have been overlooked but I think investors overlook women, not csa. You could make a case that signing the csb deal overlooks women. 

I agree, but this is an entirely different issue/conversation. Plainly put there isn’t enough interest to warrant the investment. 

Now you have sponsors coming in and making these feel good statements, but how much are they reaaallyyy investing to get these initiatives off the ground. I bet not enough.