The Importance of the Players vs CSA Pay Dispute

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

1 hour ago, red card said:

If not CSB, ....

I vaguely remember it being mentioned in the media that CSB chipped in financially somehow to help cover losses around the time of the Panama postponement. Might google that later to see if I can track it down. Agree with others that they were unlikely to do anything like that anonymously later on.

[Aird25]

14 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

So, we're going to start getting details on the CSB/CSA deal. The one both sides have said they're totally willing to reveal to everyone and then somehow never done so.

 

Didn't Noonan say they were bound by NDA's for a lot of deals they've signed? 

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

14 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

So, we're going to start getting details on the CSB/CSA deal. The one both sides have said they're totally willing to reveal to everyone and then somehow never done so.

 

Hopefully that means the agreements finally wind up in the public domain. Guess it's the gender equity that's the main factor here and why CWNT related revenues go to a group that is only pushing men's pro soccer.

[ag futbol]

57 minutes ago, Greatest Cockney Rip Off said:

The problem with that is the CSA president is a figurehead that has no power. They get one vote, the same as the other board members and it’s the general secretary that is in charge of implementing what the board votes on. So it doesn’t really matter who the president is as it takes a majority of the board to vote something in and a competent general secretary to achieve it. 

No argument from me in the sense that it’s more than just the people who need to change (governance and practice need to change too). 
 

There is the possibility of improvement, that’s all I’m saying. 

[The Real Marc]

49 minutes ago, Shway said:

I’ve been thinking about a banner in fan protest, and I think you provided it.

The fans are forgotten.

But somehow we are to “stand with our players”

I'm in the front row of 118 at the Honduras game. It's honestly crossed my mind to bring a small sign but I'm likely to wimp out on it. If I wanted to support someone on strike, I'd support a teacher. Front-line worker. Labourer. Not these entitled bozos.

[Ottawafan]

1 hour ago, Aird25 said:

Is there not a chance the private donor was CSB? They did indicate they were willing to do something like this

It is possible but not really a good look for them.

[Watchmen]

40 minutes ago, Aird25 said:

Didn't Noonan say they were bound by NDA's for a lot of deals they've signed? 

Maybe, but if both parties involved were willing to discuss it then I'm sure the legality of the NDA could be worked out.

[Aird25]

Just now, Watchmen said:

Maybe, but if both parties involved were willing to discuss it then I'm sure the legality of the NDA could be worked out.

I guess I'm confused. Don't we know what it's worth to CSA? I thought the missing pieces was what it's worth to CSB, but I doubt we'll get access to their books.

[Bison44]

How much its worth to CSB isnt as important as what its for.  What exactly did CSA sign over, put some of this conspiracy shit to bed.  Which revenue streams does CSA still control and why are they so short on cash now...although we prob already can guess at that.  Promising too much to the players, losing money on strikes and cancelled games, that right there could have cost the women their friendlies in Brazil.   

[Obinna]

1 hour ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Hopefully that means the agreements finally wind up in the public domain. Guess it's the gender equity that's the main factor here and why CWNT related revenues go to a group that is only pushing men's pro soccer.

Didn't the CanPL have some degree of interest in pushing the women's pro game in this country?

[Watchmen]

41 minutes ago, Aird25 said:

I guess I'm confused. Don't we know what it's worth to CSA? I thought the missing pieces was what it's worth to CSB, but I doubt we'll get access to their books.

Yup, as Bison44 says, we don't know what CSB bought for their $3m. Or the clauses that allow the deals extension an additional 10 years.

[Aird25]

11 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

Yup, as Bison44 says, we don't know what CSB bought for their $3m. Or the clauses that allow the deals extension an additional 10 years.

Haven't we known exactly what CSB bought since 2018? I thought we just didn't know what that's been worth from year to year

40 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

How much its worth to CSB isnt as important as what its for.  What exactly did CSA sign over, put some of this conspiracy shit to bed.  Which revenue streams does CSA still control and why are they so short on cash now...although we prob already can guess at that.  Promising too much to the players, losing money on strikes and cancelled games, that right there could have cost the women their friendlies in Brazil.   

They signed over sponsorship and media rights. Is that still in question?

I presume why they're short on cash now is a completely separate question.

Edited February 28, 2023 by Aird25

[Watchmen]

3 minutes ago, Aird25 said:

Haven't we known exactly what CSB bought since 2018? I thought we just didn't know what that's been worth from year to year

They signed over sponsorship and media rights. Is that still in question?

I presume why they're short on cash now is a completely separate question.

It's a bit vague. Define sponsorship. The kit deal isn't part of it, for instance. The players thought the WC money was part of it, but that doesn't seem correct.  And of course, the players are starting to fight over imagine rights (not just the Canadian players, this is become bigger issue in all sports/leagues) which would very likely impact anything the CSB signed.

[Ally McCoist]

This makes me hate One Soccer and their hosts even more now. These mofos were defending the CSB (their employer) by saying how they're infusing so much cash into the program and it turns out to be not true at all.  

There needs to be an audit.

Fuck One Soccer.

[red card]

1 hour ago, Obinna said:

Didn't the CanPL have some degree of interest in pushing the women's pro game in this country?

Yes, Moscato was hired by CSB as League 1 Women Commissioner & Manager of Women's Pro Football Development in 2019. It looks like she was hired by then CSB VP Strategy Eva Havaris who was mentioned earlier this thread as a possible Bontis replacement.

But then covid happened and keeping CPL afloat became all consuming.

Moscato has said that development for a women's league got pushed back that she didn't see anything happening in the near future. She left in Dec 2020 to become Director of Bahamas Football.

She said this last June about equal pay within Canada Soccer: 

I do think that it might be a stretch right now, because of how Canada Soccer’s business is operating. And I do think that it wasn’t built for equal pay. And decisions aren’t made to split the money in that fashion. So I do think it will take steps but I honestly feel (good) as long as they’re taking steps towards that, so that it doesn’t bankrupt the industry or that’s not unrealistic. Both have to match. I do think that questions need to be asked of the federation, and I’m really proud of the men’s national team for the taking the stance that they’re taking. They should go to the table together. They should have from the beginning. That was a bit of a mess, but now they’re starting to rectify that.

 

[narduch]

1 minute ago, Ally McCoist said:

This makes me hate One Soccer and their hosts even more now. These mofos were defending the CSB (their employer) by saying how they're infusing so much cash into the program and it turns out to be not true at all.  

There needs to be an audit.

Fuck One Soccer.

CSB and One Soccer aren't owned by the same company 

[dyslexic nam]

Just now, Ally McCoist said:

This makes me hate One Soccer and their hosts even more now. These mofos were defending the CSB (their employer) by saying how they're infusing so much cash into the program and it turns out to be not true at all.  

There needs to be an audit.

Fuck One Soccer.

They founded a pro league, started a huge media platform, and have elevated the profile of the game in this country.   

What is causing you to claim that they haven’t made any sort of investment.  
 

[Bison44]

1 hour ago, Aird25 said:

Haven't we known exactly what CSB bought since 2018? I thought we just didn't know what that's been worth from year to year

They signed over sponsorship and media rights. Is that still in question?

I presume why they're short on cash now is a completely separate question.

You dont hear all the crazy conspiracy shit?  People are still saying they took a chunk of the WC payments, they are siphoning money off the womens team and doing nothing for them ad nauseum.  Get it out in black and white, 3 million for what exactly?  And then we can get a real look at things and try and figure out why they are in such dire straits without just automatically crying CSB CSB, like automatons.  

[Bison44]

5 minutes ago, Ally McCoist said:

This makes me hate One Soccer and their hosts even more now. These mofos were defending the CSB (their employer) by saying how they're infusing so much cash into the program and it turns out to be not true at all.  

There needs to be an audit.

Fuck One Soccer.

You would rather go back to the days when there was one story about the mens national team the day before each friendly by TSN, prefaced by the hockey host laughing about what a joke the team is??   

[narduch]

1 minute ago, Bison44 said:

You would rather go back to the days when there was one story about the mens national team the day before each friendly by TSN, prefaced by the hockey host laughing about what a joke the team is??   

TSN couldn't even be bothered to do a pre game show for the MLS matches this weekend

[Ansem]

17 minutes ago, Ally McCoist said:

This makes me hate One Soccer and their hosts even more now. These mofos were defending the CSB (their employer) by saying how they're infusing so much cash into the program and it turns out to be not true at all.  

There needs to be an audit.

Fuck One Soccer.

Another one who don't understand the deal - no wonder you have so much anger (from a loud minority) on social media

[Ansem]

4 hours ago, Watchmen said:

So, we're going to start getting details on the CSB/CSA deal. The one both sides have said they're totally willing to reveal to everyone and then somehow never done so.

 

That's really on the CSA to disclose as CSB isn't required to do anything as a private entity. As for the content of the deal, all that will be reveal is that the CSA signed a bad deal "in retrospect" --> No one expected the men to do this well a cycle earlier so "at the time", it made sense for the CSA.

Still, CSB will not renegotiate the deal. Imagine how our court system would be if anyone on the end of a bad deal *that isn't illegal* could just reopen it just because they wake up later and want to turn back time.

F--- I wish I could do that myself lol

[Obinna]

21 minutes ago, red card said:

Yes, Moscato was hired by CSB as League 1 Women Commissioner & Manager of Women's Pro Football Development in 2019. It looks like she was hired by then CSB VP Strategy Eva Havaris who was mentioned earlier this thread as a possible Bontis replacement.

But then covid happened and keeping CPL afloat became all consuming.

Moscato has said that development for a women's league got pushed back that she didn't see anything happening in the near future. She left in Dec 2020 to become Director of Bahamas Football.

She said this last June about equal pay within Canada Soccer: 

I do think that it might be a stretch right now, because of how Canada Soccer’s business is operating. And I do think that it wasn’t built for equal pay. And decisions aren’t made to split the money in that fashion. So I do think it will take steps but I honestly feel (good) as long as they’re taking steps towards that, so that it doesn’t bankrupt the industry or that’s not unrealistic. Both have to match. I do think that questions need to be asked of the federation, and I’m really proud of the men’s national team for the taking the stance that they’re taking. They should go to the table together. They should have from the beginning. That was a bit of a mess, but now they’re starting to rectify that.

 

Thanks for passing this along. 

So Moscato states that being unrealistic could bankrupt the industry, but as other people have noted, the ask from the men and women is unrealistic. Even worse, the government has gotten involved, and they possibly use their power to turn an unrealistic ask into an unworkable reality - one that has potential to bankrupt the industry. 

Is this just a baseless fear I have, or should we be very concerned? 

 

[Obinna]

18 minutes ago, Ansem said:

Still, CSB will not renegotiate the deal. Imagine how our court system would be if anyone on the end of a bad deal *that isn't illegal* could just reopen it just because they wake up later and want to turn back time.

F--- I wish I could do that myself lol

Couldn't the government attempt to force the CSB to do things they aren't legally required to do for the sake of equality, such as renegotiate the deal (an extreme outcome, but just an example)?

That could/would require legal challenges from the CSB against the government, I imagine, but the headache of it all could be enough to push some of the CSB investors over the edge, no? Who in their right mind wants to legally take on the government over Canadian Soccer of all things?

Soccer is a hard enough endeavor in this country, and investors are hard to come by. Having to deal with politically derived legal issues on top of the routine difficulties of making pro soccer work could just be enough headache for some owners to pull the plug on it all - or bankrupt the industry as it was put by Moscato. 

Edited February 28, 2023 by Obinna

[grigorio]

11 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Couldn't the government attempt to force the CSB to do things they aren't legally required to do for the sake of equality, such as renegotiate the deal (an extreme outcome, but just an example)?

That could/would require legal challenges from the CSB against the government, I imagine, but the headache of it all could be enough to push some of the CSB investors over the edge, no? Who in their right mind wants to legally take on the government over Canadian Soccer of all things?

Soccer is a hard enough endeavor in this country, and investors are hard to come by. Having to deal with politically derived legal issues on top of the routine difficulties of making pro soccer work could just be enough headache for some owners to pull the plug on it all - or bankrupt the industry as it was put by Moscato. 

I have a suspicion that if you drew a Venn diagram between the “fuck the CSB/CPL pay the players!!” crowd and those that started following the men’s team in their rise through WCQ it’d be damn near overlapping. 
 

Us long timers have a much more nuanced “fuck the CSA/CONCACAF!” flavour to our gripes.