The Importance of the Players vs CSA Pay Dispute

[RS]

8 minutes ago, CanadaFan123 said:

I’m actually really disappointed that Bontis didn’t try to damage control this before resigning. My fear is this is a case of the “loudest voices”.

 

Again, Canada soccer is in the best place it’s ever been. Now we have people screaming about change and how we need to can the CPL? What the actual fuck. How can anyone be behind that? 
 

I don’t trust Bontis but I don’t trust Westwood even more. Also funny how TSN has gone out of their way to ignore our teams for years but now suddenly it’s a moneymaker and they’re essentially attacking the rights holders. Why? Because they didn’t get offered the rights at their usual rate of free? TSN is probably realizing that they’ve forked out a truckload for MLS rights only to be the second biggest soccer channel because let’s face it - national teams/CPL > MLS. 
 

If our teams are so aggrieved where are the numbers to back it up? So far all we’ve had is Christine Sinclair throw out a balance sheet that has been debunked. 

TSN has all the national teams right that matter (the World Cups) and almost certainly didn’t pay a “truckload” for MLS right given that they are non-exclusive for the next 10 years at least.

I don’t understand this idea that Westhead (not Westwood) is only attacking the CSA/CSB because of a perceived TSN grievance. His track record shows that he reports on things equally, even when TSN holds rights (they are the regional reightsholders for several Canadian NHL teams, which most definitely cost a truckload, yet he was the one breaking stories on the various NHL scandals over the last few years).

If organizations don’t want Westhead to report on them (and they certainly do not), then they should keep their respective houses in order.

[Metro]

12 minutes ago, CanadaFan123 said:

I’m actually really disappointed that Bontis didn’t try to damage control this before resigning. My fear is this is a case of the “loudest voices”.

 

Again, Canada soccer is in the best place it’s ever been. Now we have people screaming about change and how we need to can the CPL? What the actual fuck. How can anyone be behind that? 
 

I don’t trust Bontis but I don’t trust Westwood even more. Also funny how TSN has gone out of their way to ignore our teams for years but now suddenly it’s a moneymaker and they’re essentially attacking the rights holders. Why? Because they didn’t get offered the rights at their usual rate of free? TSN is probably realizing that they’ve forked out a truckload for MLS rights only to be the second biggest soccer channel because let’s face it - national teams/CPL > MLS. 
 

If our teams are so aggrieved where are the numbers to back it up? So far all we’ve had is Christine Sinclair throw out a balance sheet that has been debunked. 

If he knew how, he would have done it.  IMHO, his infamous press conference with Cochrane speaks volumes of how incapable he is for the job.

[Kadenge]

42 minutes ago, Greatest Cockney Rip Off said:

Not really sure people are grasping the realities of this but Bontis being replaced doesn’t really change anything. This will be the third time I’ve listed the below but the CSA president is just a figurehead with no individual power to make any changes or impact the day to day operations. Have a look at the defined roles below. All this does is improves the optics for the ignorant. Unless there is a full board clear out and a replacement of General Secretary, I don’t think there will be any change. 
 

 

For reference, the duties of President (Bontis) and General Secretary (Cochrane).

https://www.canadasoccer.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/CSA-GC-By-laws-2022-EN_Final.pdf

A. President
i. The President represents Canada Soccer and speaks for the Board, ensuring that Canada Soccer’s mission, strategic direction, policies and values, as defined by the Board, are protected and advanced.
ii. The President:
a) chairs meetings of the Board and Meetings of the Members of Canada Soccer;
b) ensures that decisions by the Board are implemented; and
c) represents Canada Soccer at meetings of FIFA, CONCACAF, other Confederations, and other international organizations, and seeks to maintain and develop good relations with these Associations/organizations and its Member organizations and government bodies.

 

10.01 General Secretary
i. The General Secretary is the chief executive of Canada Soccer and shall be appointed by the Board.
ii. The General Secretary shall be responsible for:
a) the implementation of decisions and policies approved by the Board and by the Membership at Meetings of the Members;
b) the appointment, evaluation and dismissal of all staff of Canada Soccer, with the exception of the Head Coaches of the senior National Teams;
c) recommendations to the Board on the appointment and dismissal of the Head Coaches of the senior National Teams;
d) leadership, coordination and oversight of the work of the General Secretariat;
e) staff support for meetings of the Board and its committees and Meetings of the Members;
f) managing and keeping the accounts of Canada Soccer;
g) ensuring that the minutes for the meetings of the Board and its committees, and of Meetings of the Members are compiled and kept;
h) the corporate affairs of Canada Soccer;
i) correspondence pertaining to administration of Canada Soccer; and
Canada Soccer By-Laws 
j) communications and relationships with Members, FIFA, the Confederations, government agencies, partners and other stakeholders of Canada Soccer, external agencies, and the media.

 

Then Bontis should have let Cochrane take the lead in all press conferences and communications, but instead he chose to be the front man. He really didn't help his case. As in any organization, the buck stops at the top. 

[VinceA]

 

Bro how does Jamaica or other smaller countries funds multiple camps for men and women programs but we made a WC and are hilariously poor?

Edited February 28, 2023 by VinceA

[CanadaFan123]

15 minutes ago, RS said:

TSN has all the national teams right that matter (the World Cups) and almost certainly didn’t pay a “truckload” for MLS right given that they are non-exclusive for the next 10 years at least.

I don’t understand this idea that Westhead (not Westwood) is only attacking the CSA/CSB because of a perceived TSN grievance. His track record shows that he reports on things equally, even when TSN holds rights (they are the regional reightsholders for several Canadian NHL teams, which most definitely cost a truckload, yet he was the one breaking stories on the various NHL scandals over the last few years).

If organizations don’t want Westhead to report on them (and they certainly do not), then they should keep their respective houses in order.

Yes, of course, Westhead*. Look, I think he’s come out with some legitimate reporting but he also has some shoddy stuff out there (I.e. Akim Aliu, who is well known in hockey circles as a legitimate POS person). 

[BrennanFan]

Sponsorships fund teams all over the world.  To be a main sponsor of a national team is worth in the millions (...and millions) of dollars in most places, even in developing countries.  The CSA's sponsorship deals are worth peanuts.        

[Ruud]

4 minutes ago, Greatest Cockney Rip Off said:

Not really sure people are grasping the realities of this but Bontis being replaced doesn’t really change anything. This will be the third time I’ve listed the below but the CSA president is just a figurehead with no individual power to make any changes or impact the day to day operations. Have a look at the defined roles below. All this does is improves the optics for the ignorant. Unless there is a full board clear out and a replacement of General Secretary, I don’t think there will be any change. 
 

 

For reference, the duties of President (Bontis) and General Secretary (Cochrane).

https://www.canadasoccer.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/CSA-GC-By-laws-2022-EN_Final.pdf

A. President
i. The President represents Canada Soccer and speaks for the Board, ensuring that Canada Soccer’s mission, strategic direction, policies and values, as defined by the Board, are protected and advanced.
ii. The President:
a) chairs meetings of the Board and Meetings of the Members of Canada Soccer;
b) ensures that decisions by the Board are implemented; and
c) represents Canada Soccer at meetings of FIFA, CONCACAF, other Confederations, and other international organizations, and seeks to maintain and develop good relations with these Associations/organizations and its Member organizations and government bodies.

 

10.01 General Secretary
i. The General Secretary is the chief executive of Canada Soccer and shall be appointed by the Board.
ii. The General Secretary shall be responsible for:
a) the implementation of decisions and policies approved by the Board and by the Membership at Meetings of the Members;
b) the appointment, evaluation and dismissal of all staff of Canada Soccer, with the exception of the Head Coaches of the senior National Teams;
c) recommendations to the Board on the appointment and dismissal of the Head Coaches of the senior National Teams;
d) leadership, coordination and oversight of the work of the General Secretariat;
e) staff support for meetings of the Board and its committees and Meetings of the Members;
f) managing and keeping the accounts of Canada Soccer;
g) ensuring that the minutes for the meetings of the Board and its committees, and of Meetings of the Members are compiled and kept;
h) the corporate affairs of Canada Soccer;
i) correspondence pertaining to administration of Canada Soccer; and
Canada Soccer By-Laws 
j) communications and relationships with Members, FIFA, the Confederations, government agencies, partners and other stakeholders of Canada Soccer, external agencies, and the media.

 

We all agree here.  But optics is sometimes important. The thing is associations are a collective of provincial members. All have their own interests. They are not great at transparency 

 

 

[CanadaFan123]

Honest question: what happens if the Paralympic teams come out and starts asking for “equal treatment”? Will everyone be labelled ableists if they don’t give in? Where does it end?

It makes little sense to have a combined FA if everyone needs to be treated equally and not on merit.
 

For as long as I’ve watched this team I’ve seen time and time again how the women’s team has made this a men’s vs women’s issue at any possible opportunity - even when the men were shit. I genuinely believe that the men support our women but the opposite isn’t true. My fear is that all progress will be lost and we’ll never be able to compete because we’ll always be handicapped by this never ending battle. Even if the men do start bringing in big $ it’s never going to be properly reinvested because it will have to flow to all the hands. 

Maybe I’m being a pessimist but this is the way I see it after all these years.

[VinceA]

11 minutes ago, CanadaFan123 said:

Honest question: what happens if the Paralympic teams come out and starts asking for “equal treatment”? Will everyone be labelled ableists if they don’t give in? Where does it end?

It makes little sense to have a combined FA if everyone needs to be treated equally and not on merit.
 

For as long as I’ve watched this team I’ve seen time and time again how the women’s team has made this a men’s vs women’s issue at any possible opportunity - even when the men were shit. I genuinely believe that the men support our women but the opposite isn’t true. My fear is that all progress will be lost and we’ll never be able to compete because we’ll always be handicapped by this never ending battle. Even if the men do start bringing in big $ it’s never going to be properly reinvested because it will have to flow to all the hands. 

Maybe I’m being a pessimist but this is the way I see it after all these years.

The fuck

[VinceA]

24 minutes ago, CanadaFan123 said:

Yes, of course, Westhead*. Look, I think he’s come out with some legitimate reporting but he also has some shoddy stuff out there (I.e. Akim Aliu, who is well known in hockey circles as a legitimate POS person). 

The fuck

[CanadaFan123]

37 minutes ago, VinceA said:

The fuck

 

37 minutes ago, VinceA said:

The fuck

How intelligent. 

[ag futbol]

A leader who clearly wasn’t great leaves. We fear the replacement will be just as bad. Well, at least the departure leaves things open for the possibility of improvement. 

There are lots of reasons to be positive about the game in this country that didn’t exist 4 years ago. Lots of reasons why capable people would see being involved in the association as an opportunity as opposed to torture or career suicide. 

Let’s hold out hope something good can happen. Alphonso Davies and Jonathan David happened, that’s way more of a miracle than a couple capable execs. 

Edited February 28, 2023 by ag futbol

[CanadaFan123]

2 hours ago, Metro said:

If he knew how, he would have done it.  IMHO, his infamous press conference with Cochrane speaks volumes of how incapable he is for the job.

Probably true. Just crazy to me that someone who loves talking as much as Bontis went AWOL then just resigned. 

[Ottawafan]

1 hour ago, CanadaFan123 said:

Honest question: what happens if the Paralympic teams come out and starts asking for “equal treatment”? Will everyone be labelled ableists if they don’t give in? Where does it end?

It makes little sense to have a combined FA if everyone needs to be treated equally and not on merit.
 

For as long as I’ve watched this team I’ve seen time and time again how the women’s team has made this a men’s vs women’s issue at any possible opportunity - even when the men were shit. I genuinely believe that the men support our women but the opposite isn’t true. My fear is that all progress will be lost and we’ll never be able to compete because we’ll always be handicapped by this never ending battle. Even if the men do start bringing in big $ it’s never going to be properly reinvested because it will have to flow to all the hands. 

Maybe I’m being a pessimist but this is the way I see it after all these years.

Going thru the last two pages and reading your comments I am not sure you have a real grasp of reality.  

[Ottawafan]

2 hours ago, VinceA said:

 

Bro how does Jamaica or other smaller countries funds multiple camps for men and women programs but we made a WC and are hilariously poor?

Wow.  If this is true, and no reason to doubt the reporting, makes you wonder how the powers in the game, CSA/CSB, can honestly look themselves in the mirror.  

[Greatest Cockney Rip Off]

41 minutes ago, ag futbol said:

A leader who clearly wasn’t great leaves. We fear the replacement will be just as bad. Well, at least the departure leaves things open for the possibility of improvement.

The problem with that is the CSA president is a figurehead that has no power. They get one vote, the same as the other board members and it’s the general secretary that is in charge of implementing what the board votes on. So it doesn’t really matter who the president is as it takes a majority of the board to vote something in and a competent general secretary to achieve it. 

[Aird25]

25 minutes ago, Ottawafan said:

Wow.  If this is true, and no reason to doubt the reporting, makes you wonder how the powers in the game, CSA/CSB, can honestly look themselves in the mirror.  

Is there not a chance the private donor was CSB? They did indicate they were willing to do something like this

[Unnamed Trialist]

28 minutes ago, Ottawafan said:

Going thru the last two pages and reading your comments I am not sure you have a real grasp of reality.  

I block him, he's a proven douche and has been for a long time. He has never made a single positive contribution to this board ever.

[red card]

2 hours ago, VinceA said:

 

Bro how does Jamaica or other smaller countries funds multiple camps for men and women programs but we made a WC and are hilariously poor?

Jamaica isn't the example to uphold. Jamaica's women's team was briefly disbanded in 2014 after not making WWCC15. They came back but funding was suspended in 2016. Manager was a volunteer who coached teenage girls in Florida as his day job. Bob Marley's daughter spearheaded fundraising drives to get them prepped for WWC19.

For the other smaller countries, if they hold camps, it's largely because all their players are playing in semi-pro domestic leagues. 7 of the 10 nations that just played in the inter-continental playoffs (including Haiti) didn't play an international friendly to prep for it. 3 countries haven't played an international friendly since last summer.

 

[Kadenge]

The hard reality is that the CWNT have been successful for at least 15+ yrs but that success has not  moved the needle in terms of fan support, TV ratings or  Corp sponsorships compared to what happened with the CMNT during WCQ and the WC. Capitalism is based on supply & demand and in most business entities the rain makers receive the highest compensation.  The reality is that there's way more money in Men's soccer and if the game is going to progress in Canada the CMNT needs continued success. If this happens there will be loads of funding for all our National teams & CPL. Hopefully the new Prez can reach some compromise and cooler heads prevail. We are on the cusp of something really significant  for Canada Soccer and all parties need to focus on the big picture and the mid to long term.

[red card]

4 minutes ago, Aird25 said:

Is there not a chance the private donor was CSB? They did indicate they were willing to do something like this

If not CSB, it is Greg Kerfoot of the Caps. Pre-first Olympic bronze/NWSL, he was the main provider of funds of all Canada's women teams including setting up residency camps in Vancouver.

[Vasi]

58 minutes ago, Ottawafan said:

Wow.  If this is true, and no reason to doubt the reporting, makes you wonder how the powers in the game, CSA/CSB, can honestly look themselves in the mirror.  

Because they are crooks and don't gave a shit about the nat teams and the womens game but only care about personal business profits and or personal slush funds.

The CSA/CSB are your typical CONCACAF football entities.

I personally believe when all taken in (population, GDP, private sector, resources..ect.) we have the worst FA. Not only do we not have money for friendlies we don't have money to run any camps from senior to Junior (Men or Women). What a fucking joke of an FA. 

I know people here are on the fence about this whole thing. I also know people are worried what will come of the CPL. But change is needed. At this point, things cant get worse.

So, I'm hoping for a re-negotiated deal with the CSB.  This will hopefully provide more money to the nat teams, which will help them grow and that will bring more eyeballs to the CPL as the games popularity grows. 

I'm also hopeful we get actual former football professional as our CSA president. 

Edited February 28, 2023 by Vasi

[Shway]

3 hours ago, The Real Marc said:

This whole things looks bad on everyone. CSA weak and disorganized. MNT spoiled brats. WNT out to lunch. Both sets of players disrespecting the honour. Everyone unprofessional. What a show de shiat.

I’ve been thinking about a banner in fan protest, and I think you provided it.

The fans are forgotten.

But somehow we are to “stand with our players”

[Watchmen]

53 minutes ago, Aird25 said:

Is there not a chance the private donor was CSB? They did indicate they were willing to do something like this

I suspect if it was CSB we would have heard about it by now. CSA/CSB would have been screaming it from the roof tops as proof of the great working relationship they have.

41 minutes ago, red card said:

If not CSB, it is Greg Kerfoot of the Caps. Pre-first Olympic bronze/NWSL, he was the main provider of funds of all Canada's women teams including setting up residency camps in Vancouver.

This was my thought as well.  Funded Vancouver hosting the Olympic qualifying in 2012 as well.

[Watchmen]

So, we're going to start getting details on the CSB/CSA deal. The one both sides have said they're totally willing to reveal to everyone and then somehow never done so.