The Importance of the Players vs CSA Pay Dispute

[SpursFlu]

I say field a team with whoever. Since they took a swipe at CPL I'm sure you'll have lots of willing participants 

Edited February 11, 2023 by SpursFlu

[Meepmeep]

43 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Get a grip. There's no chance of that happening any time soon.

Hey you never know.  If the good players strike and the unattached fc players turn them down  they might get scabs from the CPL. 

[SpursFlu]

I dont think they're scabs.. I think they would be our national team

[Shway]

Wayy to much entitlement. Sinclair isn’t helping her legacy imo- it’s a bunch of ego stuff going on especially with their launch.

[phil03]

21 minutes ago, Meepmeep said:

Hey you never know.  If the good players strike and the unattached fc players turn them down  they might get scabs from the CPL. 

Honestly, I do hope not for the CPL's own sake as much as for the national team. For many, many, many potential casual fans that could be gained to the league that would be more or less a poison pill. On top of being essentially the Soccer equivalent of those two men's Hockey Olympics without NHL players in term of public perception, essentially seen as what we are stuck with instead of the ''real thing'', they would be seen as on the side of the CSA while the men's would be striking in support of the women's team. The later would be bad in and off itself but if you had how the CSB deal funneled money toward the CPL without creating an equivalent women's league... Yeah...

Edited February 11, 2023 by phil03

[Dominic94]

Spit balling here but….

 

the men’s team was due 10 million… and now both teams are getting their budget slashed by half… is it just me or does it seem like the CSA slashed the budgets to fund the 10M to say the CSB ? Would they not be getting awfully close to 10M… at least 60% of the way there ?

[SpursFlu]

But doesn't Sinclair want to start her own league without the CSA and the CPL is planning a women's league?

 

Hmmmm 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 11, 2023 by SpursFlu

[ShaneC06]

5 hours ago, Cblake said:

That is why stories like this always seem to fall on Rick Westhead. No one who covers the team on some sort of regular basis want to really push it to the CSA even if there is merit to it. 

It's because reporters really can't cover the team. Access to the Canadian men or women is limited. They'll ghost the media for requests (this has been happening for years). They don't even have a full time comms person as far as I'm aware. That's why you got guys like Davies not doing press after World Cup games. 

 

Ask anyone who works in media and they'll say the same thing. The organization is bush league and a joke. 

 

 

[ShaneC06]

17 minutes ago, Shway said:

Wayy to much entitlement. Sinclair isn’t helping her legacy imo- it’s a bunch of ego stuff going on especially with their launch.

Sinclair ain't hurting her legacy either. The pay disparity is britty significant. This doesn't even seem to be about wages.... This is about staff and resources available to help them win a world cup. 

[phil03]

1 minute ago, SpursFlu said:

But doesn't Sinclair want to start her own league without the CSA and the CPL is planning a women's league?

 

Hmmmm 

 

 

 

 

 

 

''Planning'' is the key word here. If the CSB had been quicker at even just giving a timeline for a women's league a lot of bad will could have been avoided. Instead, they have seen an organization who kept talking about it but didn't make any concrete commitment so they probably saw it as the CSB just funneling the money from the women's program away and very much not being in a hurry at best and only paying lip service to a women league at worst.

Now, I happen to disagree with that and I genuinely believe CSB wants to make it happen soon but I also think we should put ourselves in Sinclair's shoes: she has spent her whole career seeing the women's game is treated as an afterthought compared to the guys by many and receiving only a fraction of the money the men's game does. It is perhaps not a warranted reaction but it is an understandable one and honestly, CSB should have seen how their handling of the whole thing could come across and tweaked it accordingly. 

[Colonel Green]

1 hour ago, SpursFlu said:

I'm good. Sick of all the crying from spoiled soccer players while most Canadians are just trying to figure how to afford their mortgage 

Ah yes, those notoriously spoiled women's soccer players, just rolling in dough.

[SpursFlu]

I personally could care less about the women's team anymore. I barely have enough time to watch the team's I support fullon. Good luck to them but I think they'll find that in the last 5 years or so there has been so much crying wolf that the well has run dry with most people. It's a shame 

[Colonel Green]

16 minutes ago, SpursFlu said:

Good luck to them but I think they'll find that in the last 5 years or so there has been so much crying wolf that the well has run dry with most people. 

🙄

[SpursFlu]

I guess that since we've established that Sinclair is going after the CSB & CPL because she knows it stands in the way of her and her destined to fail league.. the CPL should put her in checkmate by moving up the launch of their women's league

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ansem]

3 hours ago, Watchmen said:

They qualified for the World Cup without the CPLs help.  If you want to say that's unsustainable, that's a different discussion (thought the core of the current team is pretty young and I think it's reasonable to assume some degree of success for a while still).  But they got to a stage of not being "abysmal" without the CPL.

Thats hardly sustainable since a few generational guys got us there - yet out depth exposed us big time.

Not remotely sustainable and you know it

[Obinna]

1 hour ago, JamboAl said:

If we aren’t careful, Nations League is in March.  What happens if there’s a strike then?  No Copa America cause we won’t be in the top division by Sept, and we’d probably have to pre-qualify for this year’s Gold Cup too.  Scary prospect.  Let’s hope this can be resolved!  We’d lose many fans for years.

I don't know what the solution is, nor do I know all the details, but it seems to me there just isn't enough money to make everyone happy. Maybe the CSA can get more creative with how to manage the little money they have given the CSB deal and pay equity commitments (assuming that's a factor), but there's a limit to how much the CSA can cut. Staff apparently aren't well paid according to Wheeler and they aren't going to work for free. Are the CSB going to mercy-negotiate with the CSA to put them out of their misery? I find it hard to imagine. Are the players going to carry through with threats not to play in Nations League or SheBelieves cup? Maybe. It's cutting off your nose to spite your face, but it's the only leverage they have in the situation. Something tells me the men will get their bluff called and something else tells me Bontis is going to harder to remove than we think. Seems like he made a deal that put the CSA in this pickle to begin with. I am haply the CanPL exists and I have no issue with CSB making a deal with the CSA, I think I have an issue with the fact they negotiated a shitty deal, were not transparent about it, and arent acknowledging how bad the deal is (i.e. taking responsibility for the situation). I don't think CSB is morally obligated to give the CSA a better deal, even though I wish they would. I don't think business works that way.

[SpursFlu]

I was thinking I'm not sure why Sinclair is so against supporting what she deems to be semi professional football. If it wasn't for semi professional and amateur soccer players she'd probably only have about 30 international goals

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

51 minutes ago, Obinna said:

...Something tells me the men will get their bluff called and something else tells me Bontis is going to harder to remove than we think. Seems like he made a deal that put the CSA in this pickle to begin with...

Worth bearing in mind that it was actually Victor Montagliani's deal just as he was heading out the door to be CONCACAF's president. He was willing to sacrifice just about anything at the altar of getting his pet project off the ground even if it meant handing over control of 20 years worth of future national team revenues.

Edited February 11, 2023 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[Cblake]

I am sure these Icons have compared notes, discussed all that has to happen for equality. Young girls deserve to have the same dreams as they boys.

[Unnamed Trialist]

8 hours ago, InglewoodJack said:

Not that it would ever happen, not in a million years, but fucking tell Bontis to take a hike, convince Atiba to hang them up and make him president. He has wide respect, and him and Sam organizing the Turkey fundraiser is more competent than anything the CSA has done, ever.

Atiba has not done a job as captain, sorry. He hasn't led the negotiation process, lets stupid comments get out, did not ensure his teammates had their bonus deal before Qatar. 

He's a great guy, but I see no skills that would justify him leading the CSA.

I also think the women, who are more skilled and intelligent negotiating, are not as competent as they think. Matheson got a business degree in her late 30s… with no business experience. Sinclair is almost 40 and it never occurred to her to do a merchandising deal with the CSA. Beckie is smart but thinks she's one of the lawyers on The Good Fight. 

Don't overestimate the savvy of people who've been dedicated to kicking a ball around since the age of 12.

[Ottawafan]

I’m all for the players striking until they get a fair agreement. Even if it takes months or they miss out on Nations League/Gold Cup. 
 

I don’t think the minor league comment was directed at the players in the CPL. More towards the owners, who are in bed with CSB.  They are the fugaises here and are only out to line their pockets. 

[grigorio]

40 minutes ago, Ottawafan said:

I’m all for the players striking until they get a fair agreement. Even if it takes months or they miss out on Nations League/Gold Cup. 
 

I don’t think the minor league comment was directed at the players in the CPL. More towards the owners, who are in bed with CSB.  They are the fugaises here and are only out to line their pockets. 

The deal sucks in retrospect but if it wasn’t for that Phonzie goal at BMO, or if Larin missed his penalty in the first match at home to Honduras the narrative instead might be something like….

”I’m not sure how much longer these CPL owners can hold out for without bringing in more revenue. Thank goodness they’re committed to the league and the sport and haven’t folded up shop already!”

 

It’s not a coin where one side says philanthropic hero and the other says greedy bastard. 

Edited February 11, 2023 by grigorio

[JamboAl]

6 hours ago, Obinna said:

I don't know what the solution is, nor do I know all the details, but it seems to me there just isn't enough money to make everyone happy. Maybe the CSA can get more creative with how to manage the little money they have given the CSB deal and pay equity commitments (assuming that's a factor), but there's a limit to how much the CSA can cut. Staff apparently aren't well paid according to Wheeler and they aren't going to work for free. Are the CSB going to mercy-negotiate with the CSA to put them out of their misery? I find it hard to imagine. Are the players going to carry through with threats not to play in Nations League or SheBelieves cup? Maybe. It's cutting off your nose to spite your face, but it's the only leverage they have in the situation. Something tells me the men will get their bluff called and something else tells me Bontis is going to harder to remove than we think. Seems like he made a deal that put the CSA in this pickle to begin with. I am haply the CanPL exists and I have no issue with CSB making a deal with the CSA, I think I have an issue with the fact they negotiated a shitty deal, were not transparent about it, and arent acknowledging how bad the deal is (i.e. taking responsibility for the situation). I don't think CSB is morally obligated to give the CSA a better deal, even though I wish they would. I don't think business works that way.

I don’t know either.  There is a full story that no one knows except the CSA & CSB.  They could come out and provide details of the agreement but there probably is a confidentiality clause that prevents it from happening.  

[Mattd97]

7 hours ago, Obinna said:

I don't know what the solution is, nor do I know all the details, but it seems to me there just isn't enough money to make everyone happy. Maybe the CSA can get more creative with how to manage the little money they have given the CSB deal and pay equity commitments (assuming that's a factor), but there's a limit to how much the CSA can cut. Staff apparently aren't well paid according to Wheeler and they aren't going to work for free. Are the CSB going to mercy-negotiate with the CSA to put them out of their misery? I find it hard to imagine. Are the players going to carry through with threats not to play in Nations League or SheBelieves cup? Maybe. It's cutting off your nose to spite your face, but it's the only leverage they have in the situation. Something tells me the men will get their bluff called and something else tells me Bontis is going to harder to remove than we think. Seems like he made a deal that put the CSA in this pickle to begin with. I am haply the CanPL exists and I have no issue with CSB making a deal with the CSA, I think I have an issue with the fact they negotiated a shitty deal, were not transparent about it, and arent acknowledging how bad the deal is (i.e. taking responsibility for the situation). I don't think CSB is morally obligated to give the CSA a better deal, even though I wish they would. I don't think business works that way.

Part of the problem is no one knows where the money is so they don't trust there isn't enough money to go around. Even on the sheet Sinclair showed it has admin+meetings outweighed the national teams last year and the CSA banking 5 million last year. A little transparency would go a very long way here.... unless they don't want to show something

[CanadaFan123]

I feel like the CSA is a major problem but this messaging from the players is totally done deaf. For YEARS the complaints have been about lack of coverage, lack of opportunity etc etc … now the players are taking a swipe at a professional league that was created to give them exactly what has been missing. It’s unbelievable.

We don’t need to know all the details to assess the basic fact that the game is in the best place it’s ever been in this country. Do we get here without CSB? Again, looking at the broad picture the answer is no. It’s infuriating to look online and see a bunch of names who have never followed Canada suddenly attack OneSoccer etc. when for 99.9% of us they’ve helped us realize a dream we’ve held for decades.