The Importance of the Players vs CSA Pay Dispute

[InglewoodJack]

1 minute ago, narduch said:

FIFA frowns on government interferences 

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[The Beaver 2.0]

Come to think of it, when do the Vees get our cut?!  Sheesh.

(When your rabid fanbase is the most reasonable actor within your nation's footballing ethos, something is sadly and truly fucked.)

[Watchmen]

1 hour ago, Obinna said:

I think we are stuck in this situation until the current deal expires (6 years from now?)

16 years, assuming CSB picks up the 10 year option.

[Shway]

I might have to come with a sign for nations league, especially if this effects the price of tickets.

“First Success in 40 Years, and Now You Want it All”

Until I see the breakdown, I’m on the side of the CSB did good business and brought us a professional league that may have never happened. 

We are still in the infancy of the league, and we have already seen the rewards.

[InglewoodJack]

Not that it would ever happen, not in a million years, but fucking tell Bontis to take a hike, convince Atiba to hang them up and make him president. He has wide respect, and him and Sam organizing the Turkey fundraiser is more competent than anything the CSA has done, ever.

[narduch]

Just now, InglewoodJack said:

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We don't have the requisite bribes to get away with it

[The Beaver 2.0]

Oh, and also, I suspect the CSA has painted themselves into a corner here, likely in more way than one, but specifically by entering into contracts for new initiatives BEFORE they'd properly solved their issues with the players. They are the Clark Griswalds of the footballing world, installing a freaking outdoor pool BEFORE their annual bonus has been confirmed. Sheesh.

[InglewoodJack]

Just now, narduch said:

We don't have the requisite bribes to get away with it

Canadian companies own something like 75% of all mines in the world. If a petrostate with like one single industry and a fraction of our gdp can grease palms, it’s an embarrassment we can’t finesse like they do. We should be preparing the godfather offer to the next great HFX Wanderer, Lionel Messi, not this stupid bullshit.

[Gian-Luca]

21 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

I don’t understand the annoyance at the men’s statement calling the CPL a minor league.

It's mainly because calling it that serves no purpose other than to undermine and denigrate the league's existence, a denigration which is completely unnecessary and counter-productive to the best interests of Canadian soccer. Take "minor" out of the statement, and what exactly do you lose with respect to the points that the players are trying to make?

 

[InglewoodJack]

4 minutes ago, Shway said:

I might have to come with a sign for nations league, especially if this effects the price of tickets.

“First Success in 40 Years, and Now You Want it All”

Until I see the breakdown, I’m on the side of the CSB did good business and brought us a professional league that may have never happened. 

We are still in the infancy of the league, and we have already seen the rewards.

If we’re talking about reward, the national teams completely blow the CPL out of the water, and will continue to do so for at least the next decade 

[InglewoodJack]

3 minutes ago, Gian-Luca said:

It's mainly because calling it that serves no purpose other than to undermine and denigrate the league's existence, a denigration which is completely unnecessary and counter-productive to the best interests of Canadian soccer. Take "minor" out of the statement, and what exactly do you lose with respect to the points that the players are trying to make?

 

The players probably want to emphasize the point that they’re being deprioritized for a far inferior product. Players are also in no way invested in the success of the CPL, nor should they be. We look at Canadian soccer as one big symbiotic system, but at the end of the day, our best players are professionals focused on their career and getting the most out of it as they possibly can, and now they’re seeing the revenue they generate going elsewhere. 

I’m a big supporter of the CPL and its potential, and I’ve written a lot about that here, but I also know that people care about soccer in Canada because of the players who have been able to take their talents beyond our borders, and I think they need to be prioritized. 

Edited February 11, 2023 by InglewoodJack

[Shway]

Just now, InglewoodJack said:

If we’re talking about reward, the national teams completely blow the CPL out of the water, and will continue to do so for at least the next decade 

I know. 
Im honestly not with the players, I think they are being greedy.

Wanting preparation, more camps, we can all agree with that.

But more money! To line there pockets to players who are seeing more money than guys did in the past because of structural changes that relate to the CSA.

Its greed. 

The women were being subsidized to play in the NWSL on what merit?

Green Eyed Monster is getting to the players, and I’m not with it.

[Dominic94]

The CSB was to fund the CSA… not the other way around, the owners were to find the CPL. It was never supposed to be the CSA funding the CPL…

[InglewoodJack]

1 minute ago, Shway said:

I know. 
Im honestly not with the players, I think they are being greedy.

Wanting preparation, more camps, we can all agree with that.

But more money! To line there pockets to players who are seeing more money than guys did in the past because of structural changes that relate to the CSA.

Its greed. 

The women were being subsidized to play in the NWSL on what merit?

Green Eyed Monster is getting to the players, and I’m not with it.

How much money do you honestly think players stand to make and do you think that’s how these guys are gonna get rich? This isn’t a case of like, Doneil Henry looking to buy a second mansion with his sweet World Cup check.

Re: merit: the reason any Canadians care about soccer in Canada is about our national teams. Full stop. That seems to me like a perfect reason to expect what’s yours. 

[Stryker911]

1 hour ago, narduch said:

The only pressure to fire Bontis is on this board really.

What passes for soccer media treats him with kids gloves

Ya, I hate that as well. During the footy prime podcast the only one asking someone pointed questions was Amy Walsh. Someone like Craig Forrest needs to rip into it a bit deeper for my liking. Everyone treats Bontis with kids gloves.

[InglewoodJack]

 

[Shway]

How does the CPL Players Union feel about all of this?

Are these unions talking?

This all could be washed away when the CSA just shows that all the money is going to the CSB who funds the fledging CPL. 

Life isn’t a fucking charity, and the reality is millionaires are millionaires from making tough business decisions. and ultimately the CSB deal has greater impact on Canadian soccer players who want to play professional at home Vs the national team that eats off registration fees and FIFA payouts.

[Shway]

1 minute ago, InglewoodJack said:

How much money do you honestly think players stand to make and do you think that’s how these guys are gonna get rich? This isn’t a case of like, Doneil Henry looking to buy a second mansion with his sweet World Cup check.

Re: merit: the reason any Canadians care about soccer in Canada is about our national teams. Full stop. That seems to me like a perfect reason to expect what’s yours. 

Guess this is a what comes first the chicken or the egg….

Because I believe without the ability to give Canadians a professional place to play, the national team will always be  abysmal. 

Like I said, if it’s about more preparation, more camps….we the fans, players, coaching staff are all in the same camp.

More Bonuses, appearances fees, etc…fuck off. Nobody has done anything yet, except the women. And they have been eating already from the CSA with select players being subsidized by the CSA to play in the NWSL….

[Califax]

Hard for me to side with the players when the players think nothing of the CPL players. 
 

I don’t think anyone looks good in this scenario but CPL players come off looking like punching bags, and undeservedly so.

[InglewoodJack]

5 minutes ago, Shway said:

Guess this is a what comes first the chicken or the egg….

Because I believe without the ability to give Canadians a professional place to play, the national team will always be  abysmal. 

Like I said, if it’s about more preparation, more camps….we the fans, players, coaching staff are all in the same camp.

More Bonuses, appearances fees, etc…fuck off. Nobody has done anything yet, except the women. And they have been eating already from the CSA with select players being subsidized by the CSA to play in the NWSL….

The national team is good because our best players have gotten really really good- there hasn’t been a single meaningful minute played at the national team level by a CPL player. It will continue to grow in our country because young players look up to those guys. We need a domestic league to maintain and eventually elevate our level, but that is not what is most important for the growth of the game right now- ensuring we can support our national teams is. Prioritizing the CPL is the same thing as investing in an end of times bunker instead of a house- you’ll need your bunker decades or centuries in the future, but you need somewhere to live… now. 
 

in your other post, you talk about life not being a charity, but this is explicitly a charity to the CPL. We can argue about “good business deals” or whatever, but this would certainly not be the first deal signed by a party not in their best interest, and now we see the results are our country’s most important soccer products suffering.

[Shway]

5 minutes ago, Califax said:

Hard for me to side with the players when the players think nothing of the CPL players. 
 

I don’t think anyone looks good in this scenario but CPL players come off looking like punching bags, and undeservedly so.

Exaccttlyyy when they are fighting for the bare minimum.

The national team aren’t.

Since when did the privilege to play for your national team, turn to an obligation?

[Shway]

1 minute ago, InglewoodJack said:

….in your other post, you talk about life not being a charity, but this is explicitly a charity to the CPL. We can argue about “good business deals” or whatever, but this would certainly not be the first deal signed by a party not in their best interest, and now we see the results are our country’s most important soccer products suffering.

Separate issues brother.

Can PL players Union Vs CSB
These guys wanted bare minimum’s to call themselves a professional league. When they knew they owners could afford it. 

Canada Players Union Vs CSA 
These guys want more money, bonuses, etc because they realized there was more money coming into the CSA through all the sponsorships, and FIFA fun money. 

But what has yet to be an issue or an open issue is….CSA Vs CSB.

We haven’t heard “we fucked up and need to figure out a way to rewrite this deal”. Everything from the CSAs side seems like they can make sense of those decisions. Whether wrong or right.

The CSB made a great business decision/investment and will continue to reap the rewards as the CPL grows, and as the national teams get better - both aren’t mutually exclusive.

So to your point about charity….I can’t do a deal with one guy, and you do a deal with the same guy, and then we have a conversation and you realize you got the negotiated bad deal…who’s fault is that? 

[phil03]

15 minutes ago, Shway said:

I might have to come with a sign for nations league, especially if this effects the price of tickets.

“First Success in 40 Years, and Now You Want it All”

Until I see the breakdown, I’m on the side of the CSB did good business and brought us a professional league that may have never happened. 

We are still in the infancy of the league, and we have already seen the rewards.

You can't really say the same thing about the women's team though.... And even for the men's it isn't really fair to say first success in 40 years since the 2000 Gold Cup did happen. And saying they want it all is overstating it IMO.

To be clear, I absolutely do not defend the players taking pot shot at the CPL BUT, at the end of the day they've been told throughout the whole thing that them getting a more decent chunk of the money their performance has earned wasn't possible, and that investing more money into the program wasn't possible, since the CSA had banked it all on the CPL, which except Waterman and Pantemis none of them have ties too, because the CSA was seeing it as the supreme and utmost priority. Now, one can agree or not with that (I personally grudgingly agree with the overall model of funding it with national money but I do think the CSA's clear single minded drive to it weakened their bargaining position and made the deal significantly worse then it could have been), but we have to see it from the players' pov too before passing judgment. Them reacting to this by being contrarian and dismissive of the CPL might not be the best look but its pretty human all things considered...

What I would hope to see is for the CSB to take the long view here. As it stands mess like this is the most that many Canadian sports fans have heard of the CPL and that doesn't set the ground well to convince them to become supporters, to put it lightly. Moreover, for the CPL to be successful you have to have interest continue to grow in Canada and the national programs are the best vehicule for that. So arguably the CSB might make its life easier in the long run by making its accounting less pretty in the short one.

Not holding my breath though. 

10 minutes ago, Califax said:

Hard for me to side with the players when the players think nothing of the CPL players. 
 

I don’t think anyone looks good in this scenario but CPL players come off looking like punching bags, and undeservedly so.

I do think CPL players should be paid more and that using the league as a punching bag isn't cool but at the end of the day they weren't the one who earned the money by their play, simple as that, and while the Davies of the world obviously don't need the cash the Piette and Kaye could probably use it, even if they are already well off.

If we are going with the idea that someone should take the hit for the CPL players to be payed better then I'd argue it should be their owners, if that would have mean taking a bullet aniway since we obviously don't know the CSB's finances.

[Shway]

12 minutes ago, phil03 said:

You can't really say the same thing about the women's team though.... And even for the men's it isn't really fair to say first success in 40 years since the 2000 Gold Cup did happen. And saying they want it all is overstating it IMO.

You’re right….but I wonder what the those group of fellas would think about this all…they weren’t asking for more money. They probably didn’t even get a bonus.

[phil03]

1 minute ago, Shway said:

You’re right….but I wonder what the those group of fellas would think about this all…they weren’t asking for more money. They probably didn’t even get a bonus.

I mean, we simply don't know until one goes under the record as the Gold Cup win was simply not as much of the money maker as a qualification so there wasn't even a pot of cash to fight the CSA about.

That being said, the issues between the players and the association don't seem new so if I had to guess I'd imagine they are probably closer to the players' position then the CSA's.