The Importance of the Players vs CSA Pay Dispute

[Ally McCoist]

4 hours ago, Free kick said:

Me too.   It would make me feel like a jock sniffer.  I find this is especially true when it comes to club teams because that players name that your putting on your jersey will very likely move to another team sooner or later.  Either by wearing out his welcome, getting traded, signing elsewhere (like a club rival), or (in some rare cases) end up in the news for non-sporting reasons in a negative way.  

Rip to all Mason Greenwood jersey owners.

[Ally McCoist]

6 hours ago, David Pinto said:

How is the suit conversation still taking place? 

Gatorade is arguably one of the biggest consumer marketing entities in the country and they would be running canada soccer commercials right now but due to image disputes the best we have is the occasional TSN ad. 

Hey now, looks at that Osmows Larin commercial.

[Unnamed Trialist]

12 hours ago, RS said:

Yes, whenever you don’t like the message you should absolutely attack the messenger. 

Another fantastic take from SpursFlu.

It was an irony, if I'm not a dunce, try reading it again.

 

[RS]

2 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

It was an irony, if I'm not a dunce, try reading it again.

 

With most I’d be willing to give the benefit of the doubt that maybe it was irony or sarcasm. Not in this case, though.

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

7 hours ago, SpursFlu said:

Bit of a side note.. im not sure if other people have had this experience but just even wearing a jerseys is viewed as a bit taboo with some English footie supporters. Its to be changing a bit but just even scanning the fans in England you don't see as many kits in the stands

You didn't wear your shirt or colours because you were liable to get jumped alone or more likely atrract the attention of the Old Bill.  But that hasn't regularly applied for almost 30 years.  But the prejudice is still there amongst the supporter that considers himself a 'ard man".  "Full kit wanker" is still a phrase.

Depends on where in the stands you sit, what you will see.  Sort of watching Forest/Liverpool  and big sections are 2/3 to 3/4 Forest red.  The big exeception is the away end of course, which is dark.

I have a Mark Noble - no.16 - shirt, never planned to wear it, never have. I would say it was also a collectors item because the sponsor folded midseason but most of our sponsors have since folded.

[MtlMario]

I just want to know why the CSA does not respond to this article?

[jonovision]

11 hours ago, Mattd97 said:

It's pretty hysterical watching the same guys as you'd predict bending themselves in to pretzels to be counter culture. Who's paying the journalist? 100k wouldnt even go that far on helping send players families.  How do we know they spent 11k on BUYING personalized suits, maybe they just spent 11k RENTING personalized suits!

The journalist is paid by the World Cup broadcast rights holder. His bosses have no vested interest in making Canada soccer look bad.

[SpursFlu]

7 minutes ago, jonovision said:

The journalist is paid by the World Cup broadcast rights holder. His bosses have no vested interest in making Canada soccer look bad.

They actually do because they don't have a deal with Canada Soccer, they have a deal with Fifa. They view it that they'll use their platform to elevate the national team then they'll go off and make someone else money the other 4 years minus 1 month. They'd be pumping up the World Cup regardless of whether Canada is in it or not

I could maybe might be able to make an argument that TSN would maybe even prefer big picture that Canada wasn't in the World Cup. Not saying a believe it but it might be true

Edited October 22, 2022 by SpursFlu

[Unnamed Trialist]

Some day we're going to have to look at the issue of image rights. But from what I understand, Davies is right. You have to sign a deal, even if the deal says, eg for a minor player, that you don't get anything.

This issue comes up a lot in Spain precisely because most players have their own image, sponsorship and merchandising deals, and many end up remiss in taxes because of them 

[SpursFlu]

7 hours ago, red card said:

The premise I replied to was if Canada Soccer was going it alone. Ex the run up to WWC 2015, they haven't been good in getting sponsors. They have never shown they can keep sponsors beyond a cycle or two. So far, CPL looks to have punched above their weight with 5-6 sponsors not with Canada Soccer.

From a sponsors' view, they still have to decide how much money & effort to allocate to each. It is a good complementary mix, which is likely why most have signed on for both. 

National teams can quickly provide very high engagement/exposure but the windows are short & irregular. More monies will also need to be spent to gain exposure during World Cup/Gold Cups.

A league's regular schedule makes marketing easier and the upside in club football is much larger than national team football but payoffs take longer and are incremental.

 

In fairness to Canada Soccer the majority of people in Canada (even people on this forum, you know who you are) and by extension Corporate Canada, really corporate world because none of these companies are Canadian.. did not believe in the Canadian Men's National team. There is even still some cynicism out there. So no doubt it was an extremely tough sell up until about now

[Razcal]

I mean Canada Soccer had to pay TSN and/or Sportsnet to broadcast their games back when this deal was signed.

They are just as much to blame as anyone.

[SpursFlu]

When TSN was basically the only option for the CSA I wonder how much they were willing to pony up for the Women's team? That must have been a nice little gravy train for TSN

I see TSN is all in on the Chase Tag pro league. Yet still no CEBL, CPL or how about some investment in a Canadian Women's Soccer league 

TSN is nobody's friend and all theyre trying here is to drive a wedge in between players and the CSA and create a perception in the publics mind

Edited October 22, 2022 by SpursFlu

[Razcal]

Neither terrestrial cable sports network has done anything to grow the game or grow their audience in this country. They've been a hindrance, they have routinely not shown team highlights for the occasional international match we have had (prior to us looking like we might actually qualify) and they were both laying off their soccer staff.

To see TSN publish a piece like this is the ultimate irony.

There is still next to ZERO support for soccer in this country by either network when it comes to anything other than the World Cup, or Women's World Cup.

 

Edited October 22, 2022 by Razcal

[SpursFlu]

1 hour ago, MtlMario said:

I just want to know why the CSA does not respond to this article?

Why give it oxygen. Ultimately people just want to watch Canada play soccer. The moment the game starts nobody cares. It will all work itself out without the media playing politics with everything 

[SpursFlu]

Does TSN want soccer to succeed in Canada. Like on Canadian soil? Is it in their best interest? Things to ponder folks

[Meepmeep]

1 hour ago, Razcal said:

I mean Canada Soccer had to pay TSN and/or Sportsnet to broadcast their games back when this deal was signed.

They are just as much to blame as anyone.

Nice straw man.  
 

The issue is that a bad deal was pushed through by certain individuals not because it was in the best interest of the game or the federation but because it was something those individuals wanted. 
 

That deal was short sighted and put a glass ceiling on the growth of the game. 
3 mill a year for 20 years…a complete farce.  It’s an anchor on us holding us down keeping us in the same space as when we never qualified for the hex.  Keeps a crap team afloat and the hangers on fed (and clothed in bespoke suits).  Any growth goes to the pockets of a few old dudes or some media types in Spain.  Not the game.  You think the CPL players are all going to get a raise or a bonus  now that we made the World Cup?  Lol!
 

The crap situation we’re in has nothing to do whether TSN would broadcast games when we sucked.  It’s all about how our future was kneecapped in order to keep the status quo.  

imagine a world without the CSB.  With our team, our amazing players, the fantastic story of their qualification.  Imagine the $$$ that could be made now.  The CSA could probably bankroll their own version of the CPL. Wow an organically created grass roots league!
nope. Instead the CSA gets 3 million and cries poor when the men and women ask what their share of the bonus is.  Yippee!
 

 

[DoyleG]

1 hour ago, jonovision said:

The journalist is paid by the World Cup broadcast rights holder. His bosses have no vested interest in making Canada soccer look bad.

How he lapped up Crabby Abby's compliants about the turf in '15 shows otherwise.

He's only interested in making a name for himself. If TSN really cared, they would've had him stick to hockey stories, not being their "star" correspondent.

[SpursFlu]

36 minutes ago, Meepmeep said:

Nice straw man.  
 

The issue is that a bad deal was pushed through by certain individuals not because it was in the best interest of the game or the federation but because it was something those individuals wanted. 
 

That deal was short sighted and put a glass ceiling on the growth of the game. 
3 mill a year for 20 years…a complete farce.  It’s an anchor on us holding us down keeping us in the same space as when we never qualified for the hex.  Keeps a crap team afloat and the hangers on fed (and clothed in bespoke suits).  Any growth goes to the pockets of a few old dudes or some media types in Spain.  Not the game.  You think the CPL players are all going to get a raise or a bonus  now that we made the World Cup?  Lol!
 

The crap situation we’re in has nothing to do whether TSN would broadcast games when we sucked.  It’s all about how our future was kneecapped in order to keep the status quo.  

imagine a world without the CSB.  With our team, our amazing players, the fantastic story of their qualification.  Imagine the $$$ that could be made now.  The CSA could probably bankroll their own version of the CPL. Wow an organically created grass roots league!
nope. Instead the CSA gets 3 million and cries poor when the men and women ask what their share of the bonus is.  Yippee!
 

 

I think the simple response to your perspective is the the CSA feels like bigger picture its more important for revenues and resources be funneled towards a national domestic league. They feel like building a sustainable structure thru a domestic and the benefits that will create will better grow the game than 3 MLS teams and all the money coming in is because of and earmarked for our national team. Most of these sponsorship deals seem to be connected to the CPL as well so clearly it's the strategy. TSN has a problem with this because they have a deal with a rival league in the MLS and a conflict of interest in that they're partially owned by the same people who own TFC. 

The image dispute is pretty standard and understandable. It's also easily worked around. Gatorade has a deal with the CSA but they can't create a commercial with Alphonso Davies running around in a Canadian shirt. It's standard but TSN It's trying to act like is salacious and the CSA is trying to pull a fast one.

Again it's as simple as the CSA creating a framework that helps redirect as much revenue as possible to building a domestic club structure. That wouldn't happen if they dealt exclusively with TSN. I for one completely support it. I prefer watching soccer in the stands, not from my couch

Edited October 22, 2022 by SpursFlu

[Aird25]

35 minutes ago, Meepmeep said:

Nice straw man.  
 

The issue is that a bad deal was pushed through by certain individuals not because it was in the best interest of the game or the federation but because it was something those individuals wanted. 
 

That deal was short sighted and put a glass ceiling on the growth of the game. 
3 mill a year for 20 years…a complete farce.  It’s an anchor on us holding us down keeping us in the same space as when we never qualified for the hex.  Keeps a crap team afloat and the hangers on fed (and clothed in bespoke suits).  Any growth goes to the pockets of a few old dudes or some media types in Spain.  Not the game.  You think the CPL players are all going to get a raise or a bonus  now that we made the World Cup?  Lol!
 

The crap situation we’re in has nothing to do whether TSN would broadcast games when we sucked.  It’s all about how our future was kneecapped in order to keep the status quo.  

imagine a world without the CSB.  With our team, our amazing players, the fantastic story of their qualification.  Imagine the $$$ that could be made now.  The CSA could probably bankroll their own version of the CPL. Wow an organically created grass roots league!
nope. Instead the CSA gets 3 million and cries poor when the men and women ask what their share of the bonus is.  Yippee!
 

 

I think you’re delusional about the amount of money available for Canadian soccer, but I’d be happy to be proven wrong about that. 

[Unnamed Trialist]

Just now, Aird25 said:

I think you’re delusional about the amount of money available for Canadian soccer, but I’d be happy to be proven wrong about that. 

He also thinks an enterprise investing 120 million in Canada is taking bags of profits in back to Spain, I suppose in the form of bullion on the Santa Maria or one of those other caravels Columbus used to suck the blood out of Canadian soccer.

[Meepmeep]

4 minutes ago, Aird25 said:

I think you’re delusional about the amount of money available for Canadian soccer, but I’d be happy to be proven wrong about that. 

Luckily the financials from years past are online.  A bit of googling and you’ll be hard pressed to find a year in the past 15 where sponsorships were less than 5 million a year.   I know I posted links on this board….maybe in this thread. 
And to reiterate that was when we were not getting results and our star player played in MLS. 

[DoyleG]

22 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

He also thinks an enterprise investing 120 million in Canada is taking bags of profits in back to Spain, I suppose in the form of bullion on the Santa Maria or one of those other caravels Columbus used to suck the blood out of Canadian soccer.

Of course, MLSE/BCE did a better job a robbing Canadian soccer fans than the CSB "conspiracy" every could.

[Unnamed Trialist]

I guess it comes down to this: the best way to "afford" the limitations of CSB and the CSA is to have spectacularly rich players. 

Which would only happen if they were on major teams playing at high levels. Making the whole question of money for Canadian soccer redundant: the players would just go out and win regardless and we'd be fine.

Edited October 22, 2022 by Unnamed Trialist

[Sal333]

1 hour ago, Meepmeep said:

Nice straw man.  
 

imagine a world without the CSB.  With our team, our amazing players, the fantastic story of their qualification.  Imagine the $$$ that could be made now.  The CSA could probably bankroll their own version of the CPL. Wow an organically created grass roots league!
nope. Instead the CSA gets 3 million and cries poor when the men and women ask what their share of the bonus is. 
 

 

I can imagine a world without the CSB and I can imagine that sponorship money going to buy not one suit but a whole wardrobe for each CSA board member and Bontis would still cry poor.

[Free kick]

1 hour ago, Aird25 said:

I think you’re delusional about the amount of money available for Canadian soccer, but I’d be happy to be proven wrong about that. 

 they (CSA) got $3 mill from CSB.   CSB turned around flipped those rights to Rogers media.  The people who are delusional are those who think that those rights would NOT be worth much much much more than that (for the WCQ run).    

 

Expect TV Rights Fees For Sports To Soar (forbes.com)

 

Media Rights Fees For Lower Rated Sports Are Soaring - Forbes | Canada News Media

Edited October 22, 2022 by Free kick