The Importance of the Players vs CSA Pay Dispute

[Kent]

51 minutes ago, SF said:

Also, these foundations will need to have a charitable mission.  The money raised can't simply go toward augmenting their staff salaries or some other standard operational expense.  They would need to be directed toward a charitable outcome (e.g. playing fees for disadvantaged youth).

OK, I am glad to hear this. I felt a bit icky reading that article with the thought that it counts as charitable giving to give money that ultimately goes towards a fatter bonus for guys making 6 to 7 figures.

[narduch]

Not good.

 

 

[RS]

14 minutes ago, narduch said:

Not good.

 

 

The story doesn't seem that negative, IMO.

[PegCityCam]

14 minutes ago, narduch said:

Not good.

 

 

Sounds all generally "positive", at least going by what Kaye/Oso are saying no?

[trc2014]

41 minutes ago, narduch said:

Not good.

 

 

Feel like you should have read the article before posting.  Headline is very misleading.

[Gian-Luca]

31 minutes ago, PegCityCam said:

Sounds all generally "positive", at least going by what Kaye/Oso are saying no?

This part is the most positive part IMO, from Osorio:

"I think we are optimistic that a deal will get done," he said. "At the same time, us the players, we're focusing on playing more than anything, playing the World Cup. Now we have our legal representation that will worry about all the other stuff."

Good. Exactly what I want to hear. Focus on playing and no more pointless, worse-than-useless strikes.

This quote from Kaye however still has me a bit concerned, albeit still relieved that the players' legal representation will handle negotiations:

"Cochrane has stressed that FIFA prize money is totally separate from the CSB deal. As such, Kaye says the player demands for their split is doable because it is "new-found money.""

Unless the players' demands for 80+80 have changed, I don't understand why Kaye doesn't understand that this equates to 160%, and thus the 60% the CSA would have to play the players would not be coming from "new-found" money. That's the second time in a row there's been a quote from Kaye where he seemingly doesn't understand the numbers.

In any case, I am glad it is Neil Davidson doing the article this time, his journalism generally doesn't have the strong whiff of bias that have some of the other journalists have.

Edited August 18, 2022 by Gian-Luca

[narduch]

4 minutes ago, trc2014 said:

Feel like you should have read the article before posting.  Headline is very misleading.

Until the deal is signed i would still be worried

[shorty]

Kaye is also quoted as suggesting that they are triaging issues according to timeliness and is optimistic those things can be resolved. Definitely not a bad news article. Building a CBA properly from scratch takes time and should not be rushed. I’m encouraged by this article not discouraged. 

[EJsens1]

52 minutes ago, shorty said:

Kaye is also quoted as suggesting that they are triaging issues according to timeliness and is optimistic those things can be resolved. Definitely not a bad news article. Building a CBA properly from scratch takes time and should not be rushed. I’m encouraged by this article not discouraged. 

Maybe. You can certainly see Kaye has gotten some coaching in terms of what he says as opposed to previous times regarding this matter. We’re three months out and they seemingly haven’t figured arrangements for family/friends. Not exactly ideal. We are about a month from the next window. All the World Cup issues (money, travel, family, etc.) needs to be settled before that window starts. You can’t go into those 2 games with this shit hanging over the team. Not a chance do I think they’d walk out on one of those games but they’ll be sour where the focus needs to be Qatar just weeks away 

[SF]

Pretty measured comments from MAK and Osorio - that's a good sign, I would say.

And, seems like the players are focused on the tournament above all else, also a good thing.

The CSB issue looks like it remains an albatross and, while it may not be resolved in advance of the World Cup, probably a ticking time bomb.

In all, a mostly positive article.

[solsous]

Are athletes such as Davies/Kaye carded, or is the program tailored for the up and coming youngsters?

[Kent]

On 8/18/2022 at 4:41 PM, Gian-Luca said:

"Cochrane has stressed that FIFA prize money is totally separate from the CSB deal. As such, Kaye says the player demands for their split is doable because it is "new-found money.""

Unless the players' demands for 80+80 have changed, I don't understand why Kaye doesn't understand that this equates to 160%, and thus the 60% the CSA would have to play the players would not be coming from "new-found" money. That's the second time in a row there's been a quote from Kaye where he seemingly doesn't understand the numbers.

I think the key is that Kaye is saying their demands are doable. Their demands are that the men's team gets 80% of the men's World Cup money, and they aren't demanding that women get that much as well. They are happy for the women to get 80% of their own World Cup money, but aren't demanding that the women get the same dollar amount.

The CSA may be on the hook for giving the women the same dollar amount as the men, but that isn't what the men are demanding. Kaye talked in the article about things like travel standards, but didn't say the women needed to be paid the same as the men.

[narduch]

We're not the only team with off field money fights.

 

[InBorjanWeTrust]

When I saw this topic trending in the forum, I got really nervous for a second there, thinking our guys were going to refuse to play these friendly matches. My heart can’t handle that again :’)

[Ruud]

10 hours ago, narduch said:

We're not the only team with off field money fights.

 

Was about to post this.  
good example of the complexity of rights for the big stars.  Someone once told me that bringing Bulgaria for a friendly meant negotiation for the team and a separate contract for Stoichkov

[canuckgbp]

Rick Westhead: Men’s national team waiting for Canada Soccer’s response to offer, sources say - TSN.ca

[PastPros]

49 minutes ago, canuckgbp said:

Rick Westhead: Men’s national team waiting for Canada Soccer’s response to offer, sources say - TSN.ca

Several interesting talking points.

Does anyone know how it works in regards to using player's likeness for other sports/leagues?

e.g. #1: If the Montreal Canadiens want to use Nick Suzuki in their season ticket promos (bus posters, TV ads, etc).  Does the player get anything or is it part of "the job description" (as per his contract)?

e.g. #2 If the Montreal Canadiens sign a deal with RBC and RBC includes action shots of the players in their marketing - do the players get anything?

I would think the Canadian players have a pretty good argument that anything related to the program has no value without their likeness - and that the player's union would need to consent to using their likeness.

[Unnamed Trialist]

1 hour ago, canuckgbp said:

Rick Westhead: Men’s national team waiting for Canada Soccer’s response to offer, sources say - TSN.ca

Whatever you say, an offer of 20,000 per player for the first round and 8,000 more if they get out of the round is absolutely outrageous and an insult. Basically offering a bit more than half a million dollars in total.

It'd be the lowest compensation or bonus of any team at the WC.

The offer of four tickets may be manageable, but it is also probably too low. 

Are we to understand that the proposal of sharing 80% of the WC bonus of 10 million is the proposal the players are waiting on? If so, how is the proposal of 20 grand + 8 per round not a counter-proposal? So why do they say they are still waiting for an answer?

Westhead basically is explaining things in a confusing way and not even attempting to lay out the chronology in an orderly manner.

[ag futbol]

The CSA is clearly (still) run by short sighted imbeciles. 

Your biggest revenue generator is these players. You’re squabbling over crumbs rather than thinking about how big the whole pie could be. 

 

 

[Mattd97]

Sounds pretty reasonable to me. 80% of found money, split evenly with the women, and CSA still gets 2 million.

And if the CSA gets 3.5 million in gate fees for friendlies, it should really host more friendlies. 

[Macksam]

3 hours ago, Mattd97 said:

Sounds pretty reasonable to me. 80% of found money, split evenly with the women, and CSA still gets 2 million.

And if the CSA gets 3.5 million in gate fees for friendlies, it should really host more friendlies. 

So they are throwing the ladies a bone out of goodwill? That's generous of the boys. 

 

When it comes to my opinion on whether this dispute between the CMNT and the CSA is a good thing or not, I recall hearing somewhere or reading somewhere that the CMNT and the CSA had a similar dispute leading up to the Gold Cup back in 2000 and because of said dispute, the players had a chip on their shoulders and rallied together to come out of nowhere to win that thing. Perhaps similar elements are brewing this time around for an outcome to occur not unlike the one in 2000. 

Edited September 21, 2022 by Macksam

[Big_M]

Do they not want the CSA to pay for tickets, travel and stay of family members on top of that 4M (or 8M split evenly)?

[PastPros]

53 minutes ago, Macksam said:

So they are throwing the ladies a bone out of goodwill? That's generous of the boys. 

 

When it comes to my opinion on whether this dispute between the CMNT and the CSA is a good thing or not, I recall hearing somewhere or reading somewhere that the CMNT and the CSA had a similar dispute leading up to the Gold Cup back in 2000 and because of said dispute, the players had a chip on their shoulders and rallied together to come out of nowhere to win that thing. Perhaps similar elements are brewing this time around for an outcome to occur not unlike the one in 2000. 

I believe Craig Forrest told that story on a podcast.

[Cheeta]

2 hours ago, Big_M said:

Do they not want the CSA to pay for tickets, travel and stay of family members on top of that 4M (or 8M split evenly)?

If that is even an issue for the CSA?  Well....

 

[Unnamed Trialist]

9 hours ago, Mattd97 said:

Sounds pretty reasonable to me. 80% of found money, split evenly with the women, and CSA still gets 2 million.

And if the CSA gets 3.5 million in gate fees for friendlies, it should really host more friendlies. 

There's a big difference between ensuring 20,000 dollars each (cdn?) and dividing the men's 40%, half of the 80%, between 26, which gives you over 150,000 euros each.

Split the difference and let's get on with it.

Btw, the CSA lawyer putting lost revenue from Panama on the table. First, that 3.5 million seems high. Second, organising then cancelling Iran with an even higher gate (potentially double) is not on the players.

Edited September 21, 2022 by Unnamed Trialist