The Importance of the Players vs CSA Pay Dispute

[Macktruck]

7 minutes ago, scooterlawrence5 said:

1.  Players wanted 40% net of taxes.  Which is 80% gross.

2.  CSA is required to pay the WNT the same as the MNT according to pay equity legislation which means add another 80% for the WNT.

3.  This means 80% + 80% = 160% of the prize money.  This is untenable as previously reported. Essentially, it would mean that as the MNT and WNT keep winning in their respective World Cups and earn their prize money, the association would get smaller and smaller having to fund the 60% deficit with eventually no funds left over for any other program (U20s, U17s, etc).

4.  The WNT statement proves that the CSA association is negotiating in good faith because it guaranteed the women pay equity.

5.  The CSB deal flows money in one direction: from the CSB to the CSA in the form of a guaranteed payment in return for sponsorship rights.  There is no payment whatsoever to the CSB from the World Cup prize money or any other competition for that matter.

CSA offer:  30 MNT 30 WNT 40 CSA

MNT offer: 80 MNT (they didn't consider the requirement to pay the WNT)

FIFA average:  20-25%

 

Hi! New here and trying to catch up. Just wondering you sound pretty exact and confident on all this have this info been 100% confirmed ? I haven't(maybe I missed it) any of this info being actually factually stated outside of Duane's tweet? Or has someone else given you this information? (CSA or Players..)

At the moment with no statement from the players or released CSB contract it seems we are all just guess...

[CanadianSoccerFan]

11 minutes ago, scooterlawrence5 said:

1.  Players wanted 40% net of taxes.  Which is 80% gross.

2.  CSA is required to pay the WNT the same as the MNT according to pay equity legislation which means add another 80% for the WNT.

3.  This means 80% + 80% = 160% of the prize money.  This is untenable as previously reported. Essentially, it would mean that as the MNT and WNT keep winning in their respective World Cups and earn their prize money, the association would get smaller and smaller having to fund the 60% deficit with eventually no funds left over for any other program (U20s, U17s, etc).

4.  The WNT statement proves that the CSA association is negotiating in good faith because it guaranteed the women pay equity.

5.  The CSB deal flows money in one direction: from the CSB to the CSA in the form of a guaranteed payment in return for sponsorship rights.  There is no payment whatsoever to the CSB from the World Cup prize money or any other competition for that matter.

CSA offer:  30 MNT 30 WNT 40 CSA

MNT offer: 80 MNT (they didn't consider the requirement to pay the WNT)

FIFA average:  20-25%

 

I really wish Bontis would have explained this exactly

 

7 minutes ago, Kadenge said:

Yes, but that's the part that does not pass the smell test. Why or how could the players ask for $16M effectively, when there is only $10M.  I think Dwayne's tweet is misleading as he hasn't addressed if the %s apply to 10M or a lesser figure

They're only asking for their share (80% gross) without regard to the women.  That's why the women put out that statement.

The men's paragraph about equity was deceptively worded and most didn't understand the truth behind it other than Grant Wahl

Edited June 6, 2022 by CanadianSoccerFan

[Soro17]

7 minutes ago, scooterlawrence5 said:

 

2.  CSA is required to pay the WNT the same as the MNT according to pay equity legislation which means add another 80% for the WNT.

 

This is not true. If the CSA is offering 'to pay the WNT the same', it is because it is an admirable goal not because they are prescribed by legislation.  

[RS]

5 minutes ago, mpg_29 said:

I don't think the CSB sold the rights to prize money. I don't even know how you would sell the rights of prize money. 

My memory could be bad but I'm pretty sure the rights of the national teams that CSB sold to MediaPro was the media rights for home matches.

MediaPro would make money if they sell OneSoccer subscriptions or sublicense the rights to other media outlets(Sportsnet).

CSB also negotiates sponsorships on behalf of the CSA and CPL.

[InglewoodJack]

9 minutes ago, Soro17 said:

Don't count on it. 

Many of our players have representation that deals with elite players in top 5 leagues, I feel like they're pretty aware of what is and isn't a plausible deal. Unless you think that the players are publicly trying to scam the CSA for reasons unknown to anyone else, there's obviously a lot more to the story than the CSA is letting on. Every single player who will play for us in Qatar has been cap tied already and has a contract with a professional club- they can't leverage this strike to go sign with someone else, they're stuck with us. It wouldn't make any sense to demand the impossible from an organization that holds your rights until you retire.

[SpecialK]

Hahahahaha, it’s funny we are all talking about 10 million- what if Canada gets out of the group and get even more money ? 

Edited June 6, 2022 by SpecialK

[CanadianSoccerFan]

5 minutes ago, ensco said:

This doesn’t make much sense to me though. But we don't know really.

I would be cautious about what journalists “confirm” in the heat of the moment. They tend to be very bad at this economic stuff and they don’t get edited they way they used to. I would wait and see.

He's the same guy publishing leaks from the players.  He's broken most of the news the past 2 days

[blueseeka]

I have such a headache

[scooterlawrence5]

3 minutes ago, SpecialK said:

Hahahahaha, it’s funny we are all talking about 10 million- what if Canada gets out of the group and get even more money ? 

According to the players offer, if the MNT won the World Cup in Qatar, the MNT would get 80% of approximately $50m in prize money.  The WNT would be entitled to the same amount of money which is $40m if the WNT wins the World Cup in Australia.  This is the definition of "equal pay" = equal pay for equal work.  Winning each respective World Cup would be defined as equal work.

[El Hombre]

17 minutes ago, scooterlawrence5 said:

1.  Players wanted 40% net of taxes.  Which is 80% gross.

Maybe I'm having the same issue @Admin was having and it is entirely down to terminology.  If the following definitions are true:

Net of Taxes: The amount left after taxes are subtracted.

Gross: Total amount before any deductions.

Therefore Net of Taxes < Gross.

How can 40% Net of Taxes = 80% of gross.

[Meepmeep]

7 minutes ago, Soro17 said:

This is not true. If the CSA is offering 'to pay the WNT the same', it is because it is an admirable goal not because they are prescribed by legislation.  

Exactly.  If it is a legal requirement then why did the Women's statement say they've been trying to negotiate for it since January?

[Mitchryan11]

So the players want 160% of world cup bonus that has to be wrong no way they are all that nuts

[Big_M]

1 minute ago, El Hombre said:

 

How can 40% Net of Taxes = 80% of gross. total = 80% of 10 million

 

[scooterlawrence5]

1 minute ago, El Hombre said:

@Admin 

How can 40% Net of Taxes = 80% of gross.

The MNT want 40% of $10m prize money in their pockets as cash which is $4m.  To deliver that to them, the CSA would have to compensate them 80% or $8m in income.  These players are at a 50% tax bracket.

[Meepmeep]

4 minutes ago, scooterlawrence5 said:

According to the players offer, if the MNT won the World Cup in Qatar, the MNT would get 80% of approximately $50m in prize money.  The WNT would be entitled to the same amount of money which is $40m if the WNT wins the World Cup in Australia.  This is the definition of "equal pay" = equal pay for equal work.  Winning each respective World Cup would be defined as equal work.

I wonder how much the men's team received when the women made their world cups.    The impact of equal pay has suddenly changed now that the men know they will make the next two.

[Ruffian]

4 minutes ago, El Hombre said:

Maybe I'm having the same issue @Admin was having and it is entirely down to terminology.  If the following definitions are true:

Net of Taxes: The amount left after taxes are subtracted.

Gross: Total amount before any deductions.

Therefore Net of Taxes < Gross.

How can 40% Net of Taxes = 80% of gross.

40% of $10M is $4M for the players to receive $4M after taxes they'd potentially have to pay them $8M which is 80% of the money.

I don't think it has anything to do with taxes. I think the players wanted a percent of the $10M not a percent of the $10M minus a large chunk was taken out of it to pay the CPL owners.

[Admiral Murray]

8 minutes ago, CanadianSoccerFan said:

 

They're only asking for their share (80% gross) without regard to the women.  That's why the women put out that statement.

The men's paragraph about equity was deceptively worded and most didn't understand the truth behind it other than Grant Wahl

Yes.  I feel like this has been overlooked by most who are unequivocally supporting the players. 

[El Hombre]

4 minutes ago, scooterlawrence5 said:

The MNT want 40% of $10m prize money in their pockets as cash which is $4m.  To deliver that to them, the CSA would have to compensate them 80% or $8m in income.  These players are at a 50% tax bracket.

Oh I get what you are saying now.  This is from the player's side.  I didn't get that.

If that is the actual request, I would be very surprised.  It would put their proposal in a bad light if that indeed was the message.

[Beaut]

The players won't back down from this one. 

[scooterlawrence5]

The USSF deal is exactly the same thing.  The USMNT gives up the same $ in prize money to the USWNT, and in return the USWNT give up the same share to the USMNT of their prize money.

USSF did it first.  All G20 nations with pay equity legislation will follow.  CSA is the first test after the USSF.  England, Australia, Sweden, etc will all follow. 

[Macktruck]

1 minute ago, scooterlawrence5 said:

The MNT want 40% of $10m prize money in their pockets as cash which is $4m.  To deliver that to them, the CSA would have to compensate them 80% or $8m in income.  These players are at a 50% tax bracket.

Again that's not what Duane He tweeted "The Men want 40%-40%-20% net."

Net is after deductions...not gross so even is CSB had taken a portion then it would be 40% of that...or am I really missing something?

Also I don't remember anyone saying they want their tax paid by the CSA? where is this coming from...

[MauditYvon]

But they also want 40% of next Women World Cup? And give WNT 40% for Qatar? What if one of the two doesn’t qualify?

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

29 minutes ago, mpg_29 said:

...My memory could be bad but I'm pretty sure the rights of the national teams that CSB sold to MediaPro was the media rights for home matches....

That was always my impression as well, but what was reported in the media at the time may not have covered the question of World Cup qualification prize money and what would happen with profits from hosting in 2026.

MLS received a slice of that pie after 1994 and that may well have been the approach that the CanPL investors were primarily angling for in 2026, especially if it had been a successful solo hosting. Initially back around 2015, what was being speculated about was a more fully CFL oriented league in the would be host cities for a solo 2026 bid with the league aligned in some way with the NASL and Traffic Sports rather than the MLS/SUM axis.

Fast forward to last year and I strongly suspect that Onesoccer negotiated what in retrospect now looks like a very poor deal for the octagon to get it onto cable at the very last minute not anticipating what was about to unfold. The players' reaction may well have been WTF is this CSB stuff all about on finding out that the CSA earned nothing extra from that source beyond the $3 million that was already being used to fund the CSA's other programs.

Edited June 6, 2022 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[Beaut]

I was thinking of telling my employer that I'd like my full salary.. no taxes!

[CanadianSoccerFan]

4 minutes ago, Macktruck said:

Again that's not what Duane He tweeted "The Men want 40%-40%-20% net."

Net is after deductions...not gross so even is CSB had taken a portion then it would be 40% of that...or am I really missing something?

Also I don't remember anyone saying they want their tax paid by the CSA? where is this coming from...

ScooterLawrence is correct.  Rick Westhead reported the exact same thing yesterday.