The Importance of the Players vs CSA Pay Dispute

[PastPros]

58 minutes ago, prairiecanuck said:

Any money they receive is subject to tax.  If they want net, they want 4 million going into their pocket so they would require 8 mil because Trudeau is going to take half.  

I'm pretty sure the previous PM would have taken it too.

[GasPed]

36 minutes ago, Big_M said:

Its precisely about taxes and both are talking about the 10 million

CSA is offering 30% gross to the men which is 3 million

Players want 40% net which is after taxes which is closer to 80%, meaning around 8 million. Total of that demand brings it over the 10 million which makes it untenable

CSA is a not-for-profit and is exempt from taxes on gross or net income.   So I don't think your post is correct. 

[El Hombre]

Just now, Kadenge said:

So why didn't Bontis address this yesterday? I mean he went into funding for Futsal, Para Olympics, youth teams etc to explain why the CSA cant afford to meet the players requests, when the 10M is a one time special bonus payment by FIFA

There are many things Bontis did poorly last night.  His messaging was all over the place and he made the fatal managerial flaw of appropriating your team's success as your own success.  He also said that they had never met face to face but also that they met face to face the day before.  So, I think if he would've tried to go into this type of detail, he would've screwed it up somehow which would've put them in an even worse position for bargaining.  Not going into this detail was potentially a smart move, whether intentional or not.

But again, I'm just speculating on Duane's tweet.

[Kadenge]

We will be  going around in circles until we get the facts around the 10M. Does CSB get a cut of the 10M? The CSA is not subject to Canadian Income taxes as a not for profit entity.

[narduch]

The most interesting news on this story seem to be coming from the non soccer journos. Mainly Westhead and Arthur.

Struggling to keep up with all the posts on this.

[CanadianSoccerFan]

1 hour ago, Admin said:

Not sure that is what is being talked about.  The Gross/Net here and the % have to do with the amount of money coming in from the WC and how that is distributed. 

There is 10 million prize money.
CSA bargained some of that away. 
Players are talking about % of that prize money
CSA I am guessing is talking in terms of what is left, players in terms of the total, hence the relative doubling of the % in the CSA response.   It only doubles if they signed half away. I don't think anyone is talking about taxes.

EDIT ( I have NO idea if this true or even pointing at the truth)

Rick Westhead confirmed the tax part yesterday.  They are indeed asking for 40% net of tax.

[youllneverwalkalone]

Assuming $10m CAD from FIFA, men & women get 80% pre-tax, that's ~$121,000 per each of the men. I'm sure some would donate, but guys like Kamal Miller could use that and earned it. Not to mention the women who has no real shot to make a living. I was super pissed off following the Iran cancellation, but I think I'm more and more on the players' side. Cancelling these games hits the CSA where it hurts financially. Stockholm Syndrome?

[Big_M]

CSA is exempt, not players...players want the equivalent of 40% after taxes which is closer to 80% pre tax

[prairiecanuck]

3 minutes ago, Big_M said:

CSA is exempt, not players...players want the equivalent of 40% after taxes which is closer to 80% pre tax

That's what I thought it meant, which if true is a million miles offside by the players if true.  I hope that's not the situation.

[GasPed]

3 minutes ago, Big_M said:

CSA is exempt, not players...players want the equivalent of 40% after taxes which is closer to 80% pre tax

Maybe you're right - in which case, the players need some education on basic math.  The CSA cannot give you 80% of their income, just so you can take home 40% and give the other 40% to the CRA.

[Kadenge]

4 minutes ago, Big_M said:

CSA is exempt, not players...players want the equivalent of 40% after taxes which is closer to 80% pre tax

understood but is it 80% for both men and women which would still leave 20% for CSA?. How could they make a claim for 160% gross?

[youllneverwalkalone]

If it's net of tax, it probably means $nil for the CSA.

[MauditYvon]

It’s highly disrespectful towards fans and Panama.

Completely unacceptable, in fact.

[CanadianSoccerFan]

1 minute ago, Kadenge said:

understood but is it 80% for both men and women which would still leave 20% for CSA?. How could they make a claim for 160% gross?

You have to pay out 160% gross for a net payout of 80% after tax leaving the CSA -60% in the hole

[Gian-Luca]

2 minutes ago, youllneverwalkalone said:

If it's net of tax, it probably means $nil for the CSA.

Its apparently worse than that, because of the pay equity meaning that they would have to give 80% each to the men and women, which comes to $160% of the money- so they would owe 60% and would have to borrow from Peter, Paul and Mary in order to pay the players.

Assuming that the "40% net" does amount to effectively 80%, that is.

[Soro17]

40 minutes ago, Kadenge said:

I'm sure the players & their agents can do simple math. Why would they ask for more than  $10M? There was no clarity during the press conference on this crucial matter. I suspect the CSA does not get the full $10M

Don't count on it. 

[scooterlawrence5]

1.  Players wanted 40% net of taxes.  Which is 80% gross.

2.  CSA is required to pay the WNT the same as the MNT according to pay equity legislation which means add another 80% for the WNT.

3.  This means 80% + 80% = 160% of the prize money.  This is untenable as previously reported. Essentially, it would mean that as the MNT and WNT keep winning in their respective World Cups and earn their prize money, the association would get smaller and smaller having to fund the 60% deficit with eventually no funds left over for any other program (U20s, U17s, etc).

4.  The WNT statement proves that the CSA association is negotiating in good faith because it guaranteed the women pay equity.

5.  The CSB deal flows money in one direction: from the CSB to the CSA in the form of a guaranteed payment in return for sponsorship rights.  There is no payment whatsoever to the CSB from the World Cup prize money or any other competition for that matter.

CSA offer:  30 MNT 30 WNT 40 CSA

MNT offer: 80 MNT (they didn't consider the requirement to pay the WNT)

FIFA average:  20-25%

 

[youllneverwalkalone]

4 minutes ago, Gian-Luca said:

Its apparently worse than that, because of the pay equity meaning that they would have to give 80% each to the men and women, which comes to $160% of the money- so they would owe 60% and would have to borrow from Peter, Paul and Mary in order to pay the players.

Assuming that the "40% net" does amount to effectively 80%, that is.

Well, that doesn't seem to add up. Doesn't reflect well on Syracuse, York, and Akron with respect to teaching basic math lol. Are St. John's and UConn quasi Ivy League? Get Cyle and AJ in there with a calculator.

[Kadenge]

8 minutes ago, CanadianSoccerFan said:

You have to pay out 160% gross for a net payout of 80% after tax leaving the CSA -60% in the hole

Yes, but that's the part that does not pass the smell test. Why or how could the players ask for $16M effectively, when there is only $10M.  I think Dwayne's tweet is misleading as he hasn't addressed if the %s apply to 10M or a lesser figure

[Bison44]

IF...IF net refers to after taxes are taken out.  Or do they mean net as in after CSB possible cut comes out??  Ie the players didnt agree to give CSB a chunk of the bonus money and it needs to come out of CSA's end.  But thats all just guessing at what they are actually talking about eh??  Or if CSB gets a cut of the 10mil bonus money...who knows???  Or better yet the guys who know arent saying anything about it.  

[Soro17]

16 minutes ago, youllneverwalkalone said:

If it's net of tax, it probably means $nil for the CSA.

That certainly seems to be what Bontis was getting at with his (high-pitched) references to untenable. 

[mpg_29]

I don't think the CSB sold the rights to prize money. I don't even know how you would sell the rights of prize money. 

My memory could be bad but I'm pretty sure the rights of the national teams that CSB sold to MediaPro was the media rights for home matches.

MediaPro would make money if they sell OneSoccer subscriptions or sublicense the rights to other media outlets(Sportsnet).

[Big_M]

4 minutes ago, scooterlawrence5 said:

1.  Players wanted 40% net of taxes.  Which is 80% gross.

2.  CSA is required to pay the WNT the same as the MNT according to pay equity legislation which means add another 80% for the WNT.

3.  This means 80% + 80% = 160% of the prize money.  This is untenable as previously reported. Essentially, it would mean that as the MNT and WNT keep winning in their respective World Cups and earn their prize money, the association would get smaller and smaller having to fund the 60% deficit with eventually no funds left over for any other program (U20s, U17s, etc).

4.  The WNT statement proves that the CSA association is negotiating in good faith because it guaranteed the women pay equity.

5.  The CSB deal flows money in one direction: from the CSB to the CSA in the form of a guaranteed payment in return for sponsorship rights.  There is no payment whatsoever to the CSB from the World Cup prize money or any other competition for that matter.

CSA offer:  30 MNT 30 WNT 40 CSA

MNT offer: 80 MNT (they didn't consider the requirement to pay the WNT)

FIFA average:  20-25%

 

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Congratulations for the best post of this thread

[ensco]

28 minutes ago, CanadianSoccerFan said:

Rick Westhead confirmed the tax part yesterday.  They are indeed asking for 40% net of tax.

This doesn’t make much sense to me though. But we don't know really.

I would be cautious about what journalists “confirm” in the heat of the moment. They tend to be very bad at this economic stuff and they don’t get edited they way they used to. I would wait and see.

[Admin]

9 minutes ago, scooterlawrence5 said:

 

5.  The CSB deal flows money in one direction: from the CSB to the CSA in the form of a guaranteed payment in return for sponsorship rights.  There is no payment whatsoever to the CSB from the World Cup prize money or any other competition for that matter.

 

 

Could be true, but not what I heard.   But I have also heard a shit load of different conflicting things.