The Importance of the Players vs CSA Pay Dispute

[Macksam]

Who gets the revenue from the jersey deal? I imagine the next one that is signed should rake in a lot of money. I think both France and Germany get 100 Million EUROs a year now. The CMNT should be able to generate a fraction of that at least for the 2026 one, and if that goes to the CSA, it would seem like problem solved at that point. 

Edited September 10 by Macksam

[Ivan]

1 hour ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

You can hold that opinion while also not believing that CMNT and CWNT revenues should be used to subsidize it.

That is true, but as a CPL supporter, it was nice to hear them say it!  For public perception sake.  Even if Stefan is throwing some support to his brother, most of the general public wouldn't know that.

[narduch]

Maybe I'm too far into the kool-aid with respect to Blue, but I bet they are further along into the renegotiations with CSB then they are letting on.

This new CBA doesn't get signed otherwise. It's not being used as a negotiation tactic. That would be too heavy handed.

I don't know how they end up resolving this, but one thing I expect is that CSB will get more time tacked onto the deal. That's basically the only thing CSA has that they can really offer  (ie extending the length of the deal).

[Mattd97]

Some of these messages are like listening to all the Elon musk lovers on Twitter. They're not going to love you back, no matter how much you think we don't deserve them for... trying to make money

[Ottawafan]

11 hours ago, Bigandy said:

I think this whole thing is being overblown.  
 

I sound like a broken record player but cab revenues are likely less than 8 mil. They pay csa 4ish.  
 

I think blue educated the players that there isn’t loads of money flying around. But the players have already dug in so they need some concessions from csb to win.  
 

 

 

I would say it likely has more to do with the players feeling more confident in the new leadership of the CSA and its willingness to work in the best interests of the game. Players have a much better understanding and knowledge of the damage previous members of the CSA have wrought; working in their interests and those of a few instead of those that truly matter. 

[Ansem]

3 hours ago, Macksam said:

Who gets the revenue from the jersey deal? I imagine the next one that is signed should rake in a lot of money. I think both France and Germany get 100 Million EUROs a year now. The CMNT should be able to generate a fraction of that at least for the 2026 one, and if that goes to the CSA, it would seem like problem solved at that point. 

The CSA

[narduch]

The deal with Nike is so bad I doubt there is any revenue from it.

Plus Fanatics, who run the Store suck ass.

I can't wait for that deal to be over.

[narduch]

More from Neil Davidson:

"Canada Soccer’s leadership and CSB are in active discussions on a restructured deal, and we are hopeful we will arrive at a positive conclusion soon."

 

 

[Ivan]

It's great that the CSB has made an offer to revise the deal and get a CBA done.  However, if the "landmark" offer was made 6 weeks ago, it probably wasn't enough for the CSA or discussions would not still be ongoing.

[Ottawafan]

Heard it said it may be less a money thing at this point and more about length of the deal.  Isn't there a clause that allows CSB to unilaterally extend the contract for another 10 years when the current one runs out in 2028?

CSA would be wise to be able to take back full control as soon as it can, especially if they see the program continuing to grow.  

[Bison44]

Positive signs, labor problems are getting solved, no need for self inflicted wounds anymore eh??  I hope the reworked CSB deal is more of what we have been talking about here.  After a certain threshhold is reached (4mil plus expenses) anything above that is shared between CSA and CSB.  That way everyone has a stake, if the players pull out of games, if the advertising money is hurt by squawking and infighting then no one will get ahead.  The better things get, the more we pull together, the better it will be for everyone involved in soccer.  CPL survives, 3rd tier regional bus leagues survive (they feed players up the ladder), more brick and mortar investment in infrastructure across the country and the national teams (senior, junior, mens and womens) get enough cash to run decent programs.  

[Aird25]

17 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

Positive signs, labor problems are getting solved, no need for self inflicted wounds anymore eh??  I hope the reworked CSB deal is more of what we have been talking about here.  After a certain threshhold is reached (4mil plus expenses) anything above that is shared between CSA and CSB.  That way everyone has a stake, if the players pull out of games, if the advertising money is hurt by squawking and infighting then no one will get ahead.  The better things get, the more we pull together, the better it will be for everyone involved in soccer.  CPL survives, 3rd tier regional bus leagues survive (they feed players up the ladder), more brick and mortar investment in infrastructure across the country and the national teams (senior, junior, mens and womens) get enough cash to run decent programs.  

Agreed. I just hope there hasn't been too much damage done already. It feels like a long time since a new sponsor bought in

[Ansem]

48 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

Positive signs, labor problems are getting solved, no need for self inflicted wounds anymore eh??  I hope the reworked CSB deal is more of what we have been talking about here.  After a certain threshhold is reached (4mil plus expenses) anything above that is shared between CSA and CSB.  That way everyone has a stake, if the players pull out of games, if the advertising money is hurt by squawking and infighting then no one will get ahead.  The better things get, the more we pull together, the better it will be for everyone involved in soccer.  CPL survives, 3rd tier regional bus leagues survive (they feed players up the ladder), more brick and mortar investment in infrastructure across the country and the national teams (senior, junior, mens and womens) get enough cash to run decent programs.  

That would also mean way more support from the CSA towards the CPL like exposure, being more vocal and use its influence in Ottawa with regards to the dispute with Rogers & Bell. Revamping and expanding the Voyageurs Cup with more games and hosting MLS by cutting "byes" + increasing the number of Canadians MLS clubs would be required to start....etc

I mean, if CPL's success becomes way more important to the CSA's bottom line, CSB will become much more influential regarding the domestic game

[Ruud]

3 hours ago, Ansem said:

That would also mean way more support from the CSA towards the CPL like exposure, being more vocal and use its influence in Ottawa with regards to the dispute with Rogers & Bell. Revamping and expanding the Voyageurs Cup with more games and hosting MLS by cutting "byes" + increasing the number of Canadians MLS clubs would be required to start....etc

I mean, if CPL's success becomes way more important to the CSA's bottom line, CSB will become much more influential regarding the domestic game

Would seem to me that the growth potential that exist on shared revenue could well exceed what CSB was imagining in the current deal.  Like seriously, seriously dream up new revenue streams And let’s share the proceeds. Then let’s get a bunch of sponsors on board and guess what our players will show up for the photo shoots holding construction material, mattresses, donuts, and hamburgers

And can we please have some soccer card distributor in advance of the World Cup so that the average kid in Canada can get excited about our team?  

[Bigandy]

8 hours ago, Ottawafan said:

I would say it likely has more to do with the players feeling more confident in the new leadership of the CSA and its willingness to work in the best interests of the game. Players have a much better understanding and knowledge of the damage previous members of the CSA have wrought; working in their interests and those of a few instead of those that truly matter. 

I mean, to some degree every advancement of negotiating is a result of more confidence in the deal and the party you are working with.  
 

put yourself in their position. You think you are owed a big bonus.  You may have 100% confidence in your boss. Are you going to say, I don’t want a bonus cuz I trust my boss.  
 

or 

 

are you more likely to say, I understand there’s no money so I’ll accept a smaller bonus. 
 

People don’t entirely give up money because of confidence in a new boss. I’m convinced it’s because of the hard facts rather than emotional feelings. 

[Bigandy]

44 minutes ago, Ruud said:

Would seem to me that the growth potential that exist on shared revenue could well exceed what CSB was imagining in the current deal.  Like seriously, seriously dream up new revenue streams And let’s share the proceeds. Then let’s get a bunch of sponsors on board and guess what our players will show up for the photo shoots holding construction material, mattresses, donuts, and hamburgers

And can we please have some soccer card distributor in advance of the World Cup so that the average kid in Canada can get excited about our team?  

I think there’s some big misunderstandings in this post. 
 

the csb (for simplicity sake) has 100% of Csa marketing revenue.  Doing a shared agreement with csa brings that 100% down. There is no possibility of the csb to make more money by sharing their 100% thereby reducing it.  
 

lets think of a million new revenue streams of donuts etc.  in the current deal, csb gets 100%. Sharing that doesn’t get them more money….

[narduch]

4 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

I think there’s some big misunderstandings in this post. 
 

the csb (for simplicity sake) has 100% of Csa marketing revenue.  Doing a shared agreement with csa brings that 100% down. There is no possibility of the csb to make more money by sharing their 100% thereby reducing it.  
 

lets think of a million new revenue streams of donuts etc.  in the current deal, csb gets 100%. Sharing that doesn’t get them more money….

The only thing the CSA can really offer in return is more time.

Don't be surprised if the new deal is another 10 year + 10 year deal. Starting from the new date its signed. And the CSA gets some concessions.

[Aird25]

27 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

There is no possibility of the csb to make more money by sharing their 100% thereby reducing it.  

I really don't think that's true. Neither the CPL or the National teams have really signed new sponsors since the national teams complained publicly. There's likely heaps of money already lost, but potentially on the table if public image improves 

[Bison44]

I dont know if CSA has to offer anything.  This baloney keeps up and it poisons the well for everyone, labor disputes, bad press, CSB being painted as a snidely whiplash bunch preying on the players etc.  No one will make any money if all we see on the news is bad stories about disfunction in CDN soccer.  After years its finally its not a big joke to show the national team highlights "ohh they lost to honduras..HAHAHAHAHA canada sucks, lets go to more Leaf highlights".   CSB peels off some % of the revenue (they paid CSA for and worked for) as a carrot to get everyone to pull together, smile for the A+W..tim hortons comercials and there will be a pool of money to share.  Keep at the investors (CSB) with straight razors and it'll all nosedive and we'll watch the corporate money all go to hockey as per usual.  And I still think Forrest has it right, there really isnt a big payday anywhere in CDN soccer.  

[gigi riva]

Im sure Rick Westhead will have a story by the end of the week,  Leave  it to Canadian media to make a good story go bad

[Bigandy]

1 hour ago, narduch said:

The only thing the CSA can really offer in return is more time.

Don't be surprised if the new deal is another 10 year + 10 year deal. Starting from the new date its signed. And the CSA gets some concessions.

Didn’t think of what can can offer before. Good thinking. 

 

47 minutes ago, Aird25 said:

I really don't think that's true. Neither the CPL or the National teams have really signed new sponsors since the national teams complained publicly. There's likely heaps of money already lost, but potentially on the table if public image improves 

Although I agree that there’s likely lost revenue, there’s many factors to this.  Multiyear contracts, no World Cup, the players filed a cease and desist etc. 

again, I’m a broken record player but the best we’ve ever seen is 8mil in revenue. Minus 4mil payment and at a 50/50 split of what’s left over is 2million to csb.

 Csb would need to generate 4 million more revenue  (50/50 split) to get back to the 4 million.  I just don’t see that sort of massive increase being realistic.  
 

public perception would obviously help for sponsorship but a revenue share isn’t going to swing the tide for heaps of money. We have this nonsense drone scandal that’s tainting us much harder than csb is (currently).  
 

I know my numbers are arbitrary but in order for a revenue share to be meaningful, we’d need to see a somewhat substantial share%, and a wild increase in sponsorship dollars. There’s no evidence to suggest there’s heaps of money just waiting to be secured. 

[red card]

12 hours ago, Macksam said:

Who gets the revenue from the jersey deal? I imagine the next one that is signed should rake in a lot of money. I think both France and Germany get 100 Million EUROs a year now. The CMNT should be able to generate a fraction of that at least for the 2026 one, and if that goes to the CSA, it would seem like problem solved at that point. 

Canada Soccer only gets royalties from merchandise sold. It is less than 10% per item. 

To get upfront or advance money from Nike/Adidas, Canada's jersey sales have to significantly increase. Nigeria got a US$1m bonus for making the World Cup from Nike because they sold 3m jerseys around Russia 2018.

Germany's €100m/yr Nike deal starts in 2027. France gets just under US$45m/yr from Nike. Beyond the top 7 national team deals, there is a huge drop off. Belgium is in the top 10 but only gets US$6m/yr from Adidas.

At the club level, Man United's new Adidas deal starting next year will net them £90m/yr but will be penalized £10m each time they fail to qualify for the Champions League. Man City gets £65m/yr from Puma. Liverpool expected new deal with Adidas has been projected to be more £60m/yr. 

 

[Ottawafan]

1 hour ago, Bigandy said:

I mean, to some degree every advancement of negotiating is a result of more confidence in the deal and the party you are working with.  
 

put yourself in their position. You think you are owed a big bonus.  You may have 100% confidence in your boss. Are you going to say, I don’t want a bonus cuz I trust my boss.  
 

or 

 

are you more likely to say, I understand there’s no money so I’ll accept a smaller bonus. 
 

People don’t entirely give up money because of confidence in a new boss. I’m convinced it’s because of the hard facts rather than emotional feelings. 

The players changed their position because they came to the realization the CSA has no money… after the CSA just pocketed $8M this summer?  
 

The players were concerned about how the money in the past was distributed. Can’t blame them. That’s what I meant about confidence in the new regime. 

Edited September 10 by Ottawafan

[red card]

22 hours ago, SthMelbRed said:

I thought the story was that CSB brought Macron to the CSA with a very good deal to become the official kit supplier, but Bontis had a hard-on for Nike, so signed with them for peanuts, instead.

CSB offered to broker a deal but was rebuffed by the CSA. 

Athletic reported "it was Herdman who insisted that the sportswear giant (Nike) become the kit provider for Canada Soccer. Herdman sat in meetings with Nike representatives and told those representatives that Canada Soccer would do whatever necessary to land Nike as their kit provider. Canada Soccer then signed a deal that, at least early on during the contract, only provided Canada with free equipment."

Other reports said Bontis and the women's team were totally blinded by Nike's cachet. It was Nike or bust.

The men's team wasn't consulted. Similarly, the women's team were involved with developing new Nike kits for Tokyo and World Cup 2023 while the men's team weren't consulted and totally off the radar till the last round of WCQ.

Edited September 11 by red card

[Bigandy]

1 minute ago, Ottawafan said:

The players changed their position because they came to the realization the CSA has no money… after the CSA just pocketed $8M this summer?  

You’re twisting the narrative a bit. The copa money is independent of the csb revenues. 
the players main argument was that the csb deal is bankrupting csa. This assumed the csb was raking in cash which I assume they now know is not the case.

 

the negotiations for prize money is a separate component of the cba agreement. I’m sure the players now realize that their original ask of 80%net (ish) was ridiculous and have now reduced their asking price.

 

again, whether it’s csb or prize money, the players likely reduced their asking price because they realize csb isn’t making insane money and that asking for an amount of prize money that would end up costing the federation more than the sum of prize money is not realistic. 
 

my point is that people do not concede money because their old boss was fired. Would u tell your boss to cancel your scheduled raise and bonus because you have a new manager?