The Importance of the Players vs CSA Pay Dispute

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

This tweet wound up in my feed yesterday for some reason. Maybe Elon Musk's algorithm figured out out I would be interested given how it highlights the extent to which times are changing in Canadian soccer:

Not so long ago back when Onesoccer was still telling us that Bobby Smyrniotis and Tommy Wheeldon Jr were on the shortlist for the CMNT head coaching job, Peter Schaad would almost certainly have been defending CSB to the hilt rather than feigning ignorance as to how it all works after formerly being one of the main cheerleaders.

Only a few short weeks on, we have an "MLS Canada head coach" and it has been confirmed that Mediapro are exiting at the end of this season. Suspect the reason that there appears to be relative harmony between the CSA board and the CMNT roster at the moment is that there has been a mass clear out of all the CSA execs and staff that were around back in 2018, so there is now a shared understanding that the CSB deal is something that the new regime at the CSA have been saddled with that both parties need to find imaginative ways to work around such as through Kevin Blue's "philanthropy" approach.

Players like Bombito and Shaffelburg have probably very much benefited from having an "MLS Canada" appointment courtesy of that new funding mechanism. There was definitely plenty of skepticism about them during and after the game in Rotterdam on here after all so it definitely wasn't a given that they were going to be part of the team selection strategy under whoever took over from Mauro Biello. Ditto with Maxime Crepeau on that last bit. If it had been Smyrniotis or Wheeldon Jr it's not completely beyond the realms of possibility that we would have seen an attempt to shoehorn players like Carducci, Becker, Didic and Aparicio into the roster....

Getting past Argentina is a long shot and things could go south somewhat in the last two games of this tournament but at least Jesse Marsch is saying the sort of things John Herdman should have been saying to the media before the Croatia game in Qatar and at least he appears to be in control of what is happening tactically rather than having his top players doing pretty much whatever they wanted.

Edited July 7 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[narduch]

I mean you are posting random tweets with wrong information just so you can get on your hobby horse.

[jordan]

A trip the final and the Bontis suit tab at Moore’s clothing for Men can be paid off.

[phil03]

1 hour ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

If it had been Smyrniotis or Wheeldon Jr it's not completely beyond the realms of possibility that we would have seen an attempt to shoehorn players like Carducci, Becker, Didic and Aparicio into the roster....

Now, that isn't fair. I have been firmly on the ''not qualified at this point in time'' camp for Bobby and Wheeldon but I have no doubt that they would have been genuinely dedicated to the team and would have strived to bring the best group of players possible, their own professional past notwithstanding. They would also have known that in the current climate bringing in CPLers without a VERY good reason to do so for each player would have created a media shitstorm and quite possibly tensions within the team. Maybe Borges could have a been brought up to give OneSoccer and co something to trumpet about but IMO even that would have been a long shot.

Edited July 7 by phil03

[gator]

18 minutes ago, phil03 said:

Now, that isn't fair. I have been firmly on the ''not qualified at this point in time'' camp for Bobby and Wheeldon but I have no doubt that they would have been genuinely dedicated to the team and would have strived to bring the best group of players possible, their own professional past notwithstanding. They would also have known that in the current climate bringing in CPLers without a VERY good reason to do so for each player would have created a media shitstorm and quite possible tension within the team. Maybe Borges could have a been brought up to give OneSoccer and co something to trumpet about but IMO even that would have been a long shot.

His disdain towards everything CPL is pathetic really! I am a huge fan of Bobby and stated on here I didn't think he was ready for the job, if he did get hired I have absolutely no doubt he would have picked the best players available and at this point in time that does not include any CPL players!

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

Worth noting that I have so much disdain for CanPL that I am currently watching Atletico Ottawa vs Pacific. Appointing Smyrniotis or Wheeldon Jr and potentially having a couple of CanPL callups for every roster announcement would have been the likely course of action if justifying the CSB deal was the name of the day rather than finding ways to work around it to make a credible appointment like Jesse Marsch courtesy of some "philanthropy".

[phil03]

Just now, gator said:

His disdain towards everything CPL is pathetic really! I am a huge fan of Bobby and stated on here I didn't think he was ready for the job, if he did get hired I have absolutely no doubt he would have picked the best players available and at this point in time that does not include any CPL players!

Exactly, I do feel its fair to say we have different stances on everything CSB-related but there is a way to have a general stance and not get overboard with it.

I try to do so myself (me going ''oh come'' on at the idea that they would have been six or seven CPLers is an example of that) and I get the sense it is true for you as well (as shown by how you recognize he wasn't ready for the job).

My take on Bobby is that he has the raw talent to go far indeed but a) he still needs to get the experience at a significantly higher level before the CMNT and that going from Forge to Canada is just too big a jump and b) he is showing worrisome signs of being just too comfortable and too attached to the kind leeway he has in Forge, which is an issue as its just not realistic to expect he'd get the same in a higher level league without earning it again. Its not now how things work, not just in Soccer but in life in general: when you get a promotion you have to prove yourself again in your new post if you want the same confidence you had in your previous position from the higher-ups. Your good performance in your previous job is merely what got you the promotion in the first place!

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

2 minutes ago, phil03 said:

....at the idea that they would have been six or seven CPLers is an example of that...

Getting a bit silly now. How long before someone claims I suggested that the entire starting lineup would be CanPLers when what I actually wrote was "not completely beyond the realms of possibility that we would have seen an attempt to shoehorn players like Carducci, Becker, Didic and Aparicio into the roster". Watching the replay of Pacific scoring against the run of play at the very end of the first half but I hate CanPL etc etc.

[Bigandy]

1 hour ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

This tweet wound up in my feed yesterday for some reason. Maybe Elon Musk's algorithm figured out out I would be interested given how it highlights the extent to which times are changing in Canadian soccer:

Not so long ago back when Onesoccer was still telling us that Bobby Smyrniotis and Tommy Wheeldon Jr were on the shortlist for the CMNT head coaching job, Peter Schaad would almost certainly have been defending CSB to the hilt rather than feigning ignorance as to how it all works after formerly being one of the main cheerleaders.

Only a few short weeks on, we have an "MLS Canada head coach" and it has been confirmed that Mediapro are exiting at the end of this season. Suspect the reason that there appears to be relative harmony between the CSA board and the CMNT roster at the moment is that there has been a mass clear out of all the CSA execs and staff that were around back in 2018, so there is now a shared understanding that the CSB deal is something that the new regime at the CSA have been saddled with that both parties need to find imaginative ways to work around such as through Kevin Blue's "philanthropy" approach.

Players like Bombito and Shaffelburg have probably very much benefited from having an "MLS Canada" appointment courtesy of that new funding mechanism. There was definitely plenty of skepticism about them during and after the game in Rotterdam on here after all so it definitely wasn't a given that they were going to be part of the team selection strategy under whoever took over from Mauro Biello. Ditto with Maxime Crepeau on that last bit. If it had been Smyrniotis or Wheeldon Jr it's not completely beyond the realms of possibility that we would have seen an attempt to shoehorn players like Carducci, Becker, Didic and Aparicio into the roster....

Getting past Argentina is a long shot and things could go south somewhat in the last two games of this tournament but at least Jesse Marsch is saying the sort of things John Herdman should have been saying to the media before the Croatia game in Qatar and at least he appears to be in control of what is happening tactically rather than having his top players doing pretty much whatever they wanted.

Such a nonsense post.

Schaad didn’t feign ignorance. He said it’s not csb money and politely invited someone to correct him if he’s wrong.  No need to extrapolate your anti cpl agenda for him using polite words.

 

to extrapolate that a cpl coach is more likely than another coach to pick unqualified players is nonsense unless the coach is really THAT BAD.  No threat of us hiring a coach that bad.

your post about mls Canada is also nonsense. Bombito is literally our option at rcb. Everyone was expecting a call up. Shaf is doing well at Nashville. He was up against corbeanu for a spot but he wasn’t included because of the mls. 
 

no need to constantly bring up your bias and try to shoehorn some justifications for your narrative

[kacbru]

22 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

This tweet wound up in my feed yesterday for some reason. Maybe Elon Musk's algorithm figured out out I would be interested given how it highlights the extent to which times are changing in Canadian soccer:

Not so long ago back when Onesoccer was still telling us that Bobby Smyrniotis and Tommy Wheeldon Jr were on the shortlist for the CMNT head coaching job, Peter Schaad would almost certainly have been defending CSB to the hilt rather than feigning ignorance as to how it all works after formerly being one of the main cheerleaders.

Only a few short weeks on, we have an "MLS Canada head coach" and it has been confirmed that Mediapro are exiting at the end of this season. Suspect the reason that there appears to be relative harmony between the CSA board and the CMNT roster at the moment is that there has been a mass clear out of all the CSA execs and staff that were around back in 2018, so there is now a shared understanding that the CSB deal is something that the new regime at the CSA have been saddled with that both parties need to find imaginative ways to work around such as through Kevin Blue's "philanthropy" approach.

Players like Bombito and Shaffelburg have probably very much benefited from having an "MLS Canada" appointment courtesy of that new funding mechanism. There was definitely plenty of skepticism about them during and after the game in Rotterdam on here after all so it definitely wasn't a given that they were going to be part of the team selection strategy under whoever took over from Mauro Biello. Ditto with Maxime Crepeau on that last bit. If it had been Smyrniotis or Wheeldon Jr it's not completely beyond the realms of possibility that we would have seen an attempt to shoehorn players like Carducci, Becker, Didic and Aparicio into the roster....

Getting past Argentina is a long shot and things could go south somewhat in the last two games of this tournament but at least Jesse Marsch is saying the sort of things John Herdman should have been saying to the media before the Croatia game in Qatar and at least he appears to be in control of what is happening tactically rather than having his top players doing pretty much whatever they wanted.

Wrong thread - Back to the "quasi" CPL attendance thread please.

[Ottawafan]

I'll take the $8M but I thought we were guaranteed $7M.   

[shorty]

We are only guaranteed $6m at this point. $2m for participation and +$4m for 4th place. More if we finish higher, but not cumulative as we figured out in another thread. 

Edited July 8 by shorty

[shermanator]

Hopefully no matter how much revenue Canada Soccer gets in the end it won't be claimed 10x over as the World Cup money was. It's no more than a small (in the scheme of operating a national federation) unexpected bump in revenue that can help make things less dire financially.

Edited July 9 by shermanator

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

On 7/7/2024 at 8:24 PM, Bigandy said:

Such a nonsense post.

Schaad didn’t feign ignorance. He said it’s not csb money and politely invited someone to correct him if he’s wrong.  No need to extrapolate your anti cpl agenda for him using polite words.

 

to extrapolate that a cpl coach is more likely than another coach to pick unqualified players is nonsense unless the coach is really THAT BAD.  No threat of us hiring a coach that bad...

I have such an "anti-CPL agenda" that I pay for a Onesoccer subscription so I can watch at least one CanPL game in its entirety each weekend. Waterman was selected this time around and other former CanPLers like Zator, Loturi and to a lesser extent MacNaughton were close but no cigar. Given I actually watch all the teams in CanPL reasonably regularly I can tell you that players like Carducci, Didic, Becker and Aparicio could easily have been the ones to secure that move elsewhere to something better but still less than earth-shattering in big picture terms globally that appears to have been the prerequisite for being on John Herdman's radar in selection terms.

You are being too dismissive of the very top end of what CanPL has to offer on domestic players and appear to be greatly over-estimating the gap in quality from them to the last few selections on a CMNT roster. There's a reason why nobody is taking severe umbrage over players like Tom McGill and Luc de Fougerolles who hardly ever feature in club level first team terms being selected with an eye to the future. If a couple of CanPL players were receiving those roster slots instead with a view to getting them on the radar where a transfer to something bigger and better elsewhere was concerned I doubt the overall performance level of the CMNT would even skip a beat.

That's something that would be happening right now if CanPL were functioning in the way that Victor Montagliani's "narrative" had envisaged when he signed away 20 years worth of key CMNT and CWNT revenue streams to CSB. MLS wasn't expected to be providing an important step in the development pathway for nine out of eleven starters in a CMNT selection that could hold its own against Argentina because something something unfair roster rules.

[Bigandy]

36 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

I have such an "anti-CPL agenda" that I pay for a Onesoccer subscription so I can watch at least one CanPL game in its entirety each weekend. Waterman was selected this time around and other former CanPLers like Zator, Loturi and to a lesser extent MacNaughton were close but no cigar. Given I actually watch all the teams in CanPL reasonably regularly I can tell you that players like Carducci, Didic, Becker and Aparicio could easily have been the ones to secure that move elsewhere to something better but still less than earth-shattering in big picture terms globally that appears to have been the prerequisite for being on John Herdman's radar in selection terms.

You are being too dismissive of the very top end of what CanPL has to offer on domestic players and appear to be greatly over-estimating the gap in quality from them to the last few selections on a CMNT roster. There's a reason why nobody is taking severe umbrage over players like Tom McGill and Luc de Fougerolles who hardly ever feature in club level first team terms being selected with an eye to the future. If a couple of CanPL players were receiving those roster slots instead with a view to getting them on the radar where a transfer to something bigger and better elsewhere was concerned I doubt the overall performance level of the CMNT would even skip a beat.

That's something that would be happening right now if CanPL were functioning in the way that Victor Montagliani's "narrative" had envisaged when he signed away 20 years worth of key CMNT and CWNT revenue streams to CSB. MLS wasn't expected to be providing an important step in the development pathway for nine out of eleven starters in a CMNT selection that could hold its own against Argentina because something something unfair roster rules.

“I’m not anti cpl” 

-proceeds to go on an unrelated rant that is anti csb.

im not getting into your nonsense crusade.

 

as for the players:

didic trialed with whitecaps and didn’t make it.

apricio was 4th division Spain. 
 

Becker couldn’t cut it in mls and is 33. Not sure what you expect. 
 

these guys are all around 30 and couldn’t ever cut it in a bigger league. There’s no way they secure a move to a “John herdman prereq league” (which is top 5 btw)
 

[Olympique_de_Marseille]

Just a reminder that we've just lost ~ $CAD 313k

 

not to mention the fact that potential sponsors have likely been scared away.

This could bring about a new wave of tension between the players and the CSA as the money pie shrinks.

Edited Saturday at 06:01 PM by Olympique_de_Marseille

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

Worth bearing in mind that CSB are still going to be on the hook for the annual $3.5 million payment (or whatever it is at this point). It's not completely inconceivable that might be a net positive in 2025 for the CSA given the possible fallout from the drone fiasco but it is still highly likely to have been a very foolish thing to do in the context of 2026.

[king1010]

So does this come strictly from the women's budget? Or is it going to dip into the mens budget. 

[Bison44]

21 minutes ago, Olympique_de_Marseille said:

Just a reminder that we've just lost $

not to mention the fact that potential sponsors have likely been scared away.

This could bring about a new wave of tension between the players and the CSA as the money pie shrinks.

See this is a good lesson for new CAN fans.  Nothing good every happens, and if it does its instantly cancelled out by stupidity and fellow CAN shooting us in the foot.  This is why us longtime fans (hey remember the 70's??) are always waiting for the other shoe to drop and have this sense of DOOM, 24/7.   

For example, our own media types are leading the charge to make sure the women are punished harshly at Olympics.  "worse than ben johnson"...ughhhh  I think if this was the USA, they would be finding every example of this kind of thing and any other grey areas of "cheating" that isnt punished instead of serving their program up to the wolves.  

[red card]

48 minutes ago, Olympique_de_Marseille said:

Just a reminder that we've just lost

~ $CAD 313k

 

not to mention the fact that potential sponsors have likely been scared away.

This could bring about a new wave of tension between the players and the CSA as the money pie shrinks.

The bigger pool of money at risk is Own the Podium funds. It was around $8m for the past 3 years. $12.6m for the 5 year Tokyo cycle. 

It would have been reduced anyway with no medal and continued drop in FIFA rankings. But OTP will likely de-prioritize funding as the women's team was the most funded amongst summer/winter team sports.

Edited Saturday at 06:18 PM by red card

[eramosat]

still winning the award for the most pointless thread to try and get answers to your questions....

which players still need to be paid?  and how much?

and now we have a women's national team scandal, that has been leaned into by CSA, and by Canadians too.  do we really think we can translate that to actual $$$?  and does the public have anything remotely useful to contribute?

the answers, in order, are:

nobody has any idea

nobody has any idea

of course not

of course not

[mpg_29]

5 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

See this is a good lesson for new CAN fans.  Nothing good every happens, and if it does its instantly cancelled out by stupidity and fellow CAN shooting us in the foot.  This is why us longtime fans (hey remember the 70's??) are always waiting for the other shoe to drop and have this sense of DOOM, 24/7.   

For example, our own media types are leading the charge to make sure the women are punished harshly at Olympics.  "worse than ben johnson"...ughhhh  I think if this was the USA, they would be finding every example of this kind of thing and any other grey areas of "cheating" that isnt punished instead of serving their program up to the wolves.  

I actually disagree. The US media is so large that for every one outlet that may want to sugarcoat there'd be 3 or 4 outlets who would not.

[Kadenge]

43 minutes ago, Olympique_de_Marseille said:

Just a reminder that we've just lost ~ $CAD 313k

 

not to mention the fact that potential sponsors have likely been scared away.

This could bring about a new wave of tension between the players and the CSA as the money pie shrinks.

Would the CSA still have to pay Bev's salary for the 1 yr of FIFA suspension? I have to think the players are especially pissed with her over the 6 points docked.

[Floortom]

2 minutes ago, Kadenge said:

Would the CSA still have to pay Bev's salary for the 1 yr of FIFA suspension? 

They would probably have a lawsuit on their hands if they didn’t pay her. Dragging this out and opening themselves up to further embarrassment should be the #1 thing for the CSA to avoid. Terminate her, pay her out and make this go away as quickly as possible 

[Bison44]

Wouldnt their be a clause in the contract, if you are suspended by FIFA your contract is null and void and they wouldnt be on the hook?