The Importance of the Players vs CSA Pay Dispute

[dyslexic nam]

33 minutes ago, Gian-Luca said:

It appears the men she is referring to are the current and former members of the CSA who have testified, rather than the men's team.

If true, that is some pretty imprecise language to be tossing around in the context of an issue that has already seen the men’s and women’s teams pitted against each other.  It also seems needlessly inflammatory on the basis of some pretty clear lines of division.   

Anyway,  I am going to stop commenting on this issue.  It is clear that most of what is transpiring is theatre.   
 

Edited March 31, 2023 by dyslexic nam

[Kadenge]

2 hours ago, Aird25 said:

It was the top comment on Twitter when I searched 'CSB' for info about the hearings yesterday

Sadly, fake news sells. If it's repeated enough times and gets liked a lot it buries the truth. Most people are too lazy to research stuff or question what is tweeted and just believe what they read.  Healthy skepticism is apparently a disease now.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

On 3/31/2023 at 8:51 PM, CanadaFan123 said:

...They need some serious guidance here and to accept reality.

^^^needs to accept the reality that it isn't 2018 any more when a small clique inside the CSA could make decisions like signing the CSB deal without any transparency to fit the viewpoints of a minority of influential soccer association people (who had had their bubble burst in a big way when MLS expansion into Toronto showed up how weak Canada's elite player development system was back around 2007 compared to what was happening south of the border) and other stakeholders inside Canadian soccer largely just had to lump it because politicians and the mainstream media weren't paying any attention.

Edited April 21, 2023 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[CanadaFan123]

14 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

^^^needs to accept the reality that it isn't 2018 any more when a small clique inside the CSA could make decisions like signing the CSB deal without any transparency to fit the viewpoints of a minority of influential soccer association people (who had had their bubble burst in a big way when MLS expansion into Toronto showed up how weak Canada's elite player development system was back around 2007 compared to what was happening south of the border) and other stakeholders inside Canadian soccer largely just had to lump up because politicians and the mainstream media weren't paying any attention.

Reality check: the majority view is what happened and is happening. The majority of our elite players have still come from outside of MLS systems. Obviously MLS has helped soccer in Canada massively but also has major short fallings when it comes to player development. Sigma has been the best academy in Canada. 

[narduch]

Also have to remember that these hearings are basically a dog and pony show. 

The government won't do anything about this. Just like how they recently had all the grocery CEOs out to explain why they are gouging us.

[Gian-Luca]

Consensus here, as with other professionals in the media, that the hearings have largely been a pointless waste of taxpayer money

 

[Ottawafan]

2 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

^^^needs to accept the reality that it isn't 2018 any more when a small clique inside the CSA could make decisions like signing the CSB deal without any transparency to fit the viewpoints of a minority of influential soccer association people (who had had their bubble burst in a big way when MLS expansion into Toronto showed up how weak Canada's elite player development system was back around 2007 compared to what was happening south of the border) and other stakeholders inside Canadian soccer largely just had to lump up because politicians and the mainstream media weren't paying any attention.

Yup.  

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

Something CSB could reasonably be expected to cover given the sponsorship and broadcasting revenue streams for this competition were signed over to them by Victor Montagliani and Nick Bontis?

 

[dyslexic nam]

Might as well pull out the torches and pitchforks, eh?  

CSB would do it if it was in their agreement.  But it clearly isn’t.  Thus there is no reason why they would be “reasonably expected” to cover costs they have no legal responsibility for.   
 

[narduch]

Finally.

 

 

[red card]

From Star's Bruce Arthur, a few interesting tidbits:

Why Cochrane Resigned? The decision on Canada Soccer’s side was believed to come from board chair and interim president Charmaine Crooks and vice chair Kelly Brown, though Cochrane was under an annual board performance review. In an interview, Cochrane cited the toll the job has taken on him and his family. One source familiar with the process said Cochrane scored poorly on a Canada Soccer staff survey;

Men Still Not Onboard? ..the men’s team has not agreed to absolute pay equity, and had previously proposed proportionately equal pay equity instead — and also said that discussions with Canadian Soccer Business to increase the base annual payment to Canada Soccer are in progress.

Not Organized at Qatar: ..one of the 32 teams was a half-hour late for a press conference and claimed it was due to traffic, and it was Canada. Canada was late for an on-field team photo before the Croatia match, and operations ran so haphazardly that a British journalist with extensive soccer experience, visiting a Canada Soccer practice that ran late, said, “I thought you were a first-world country.”

Other Firings: ..chief marketing officer Sandra Gage and longtime communications director Richard Scott were fired

New President? The expected showdown in the race to succeed Bontis is expected to be between Crooks and a yet-unidentified anti-CSB candidate. Some are already speculating that Crooks cleaning house is aimed at winning over the players, who have criticized both her and senior management.

https://www.thestar.com/sports/soccer/opinion/2023/04/20/earl-cochrane-out-as-canada-soccer-general-secretary.html

 

[Gian-Luca]

An "anti-CSB candidate"....I seriously hope that is not actually a platform that anyone running for President of the CSA would self-identify as.

"Vote for me as the next CSA President! I'm against the CSB, I'm against the CPL and I'm definitely against hosting the 2026 World Cup!"

[Gian-Luca]

One other thing...now that it's being officially reported that it's the men (rather than the CSA) are not yet on board with the pay equity (and I can't say that I blame them since they are the ones who would lose out), does this mean that the Heritage Committe will invite the likes of Davies, David, and Larin to appear before the committee next to take them to task over this issue as they had done with the current & former CSA staff? Somehow I don't feel like I'll be holding my breath for that one.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

4 hours ago, Gian-Luca said:

An "anti-CSB candidate"....I seriously hope that is not actually a platform that anyone running for President of the CSA would self-identify as...

You think it's a good idea to hand over control of sponsorship and broadcast revenues in exchange for a fixed annual payment out to 2037? Anybody linked to the CSA who doesn't want to renogotiate that deal and dispense with the services of the clique that pushed it through needs their head examined. There was no need to have anything like the CSB deal in place if the launch of CanPL had been handled differently.

Edited April 21, 2023 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[SoccMan]

7 hours ago, red card said:

From Star's Bruce Arthur, a few interesting tidbits:

Why Cochrane Resigned? The decision on Canada Soccer’s side was believed to come from board chair and interim president Charmaine Crooks and vice chair Kelly Brown, though Cochrane was under an annual board performance review. In an interview, Cochrane cited the toll the job has taken on him and his family. One source familiar with the process said Cochrane scored poorly on a Canada Soccer staff survey;

Men Still Not Onboard? ..the men’s team has not agreed to absolute pay equity, and had previously proposed proportionately equal pay equity instead — and also said that discussions with Canadian Soccer Business to increase the base annual payment to Canada Soccer are in progress.

Not Organized at Qatar: ..one of the 32 teams was a half-hour late for a press conference and claimed it was due to traffic, and it was Canada. Canada was late for an on-field team photo before the Croatia match, and operations ran so haphazardly that a British journalist with extensive soccer experience, visiting a Canada Soccer practice that ran late, said, “I thought you were a first-world country.”

Other Firings: ..chief marketing officer Sandra Gage and longtime communications director Richard Scott were fired

New President? The expected showdown in the race to succeed Bontis is expected to be between Crooks and a yet-unidentified anti-CSB candidate. Some are already speculating that Crooks cleaning house is aimed at winning over the players, who have criticized both her and senior management.

https://www.thestar.com/sports/soccer/opinion/2023/04/20/earl-cochrane-out-as-canada-soccer-general-secretary.html

 

Wow that’s embarrassing it sounds like it was amateur hour on the organizational side by the CSA in Qatar, moreover, players see this and could have had an effect on player’s performance too in certain ways .

[CanadaFan123]

I had said this earlier somewhere in this babble, but it’s been clear that the men are not aligned with the women on the pay split. Is anyone shocked? Imagine working for a company and having to split the bonus you earned with your detractors?

Anyway, I think the moves to clean house at the CSA are long overdue. Some of those names had been around forever and we’ve seen no progress. Super embarrassing to hear how disorganized we were at the World Cup. It’s like a team that promotes from the national league up to the premier league - sure we all loved Joe the kit man but we need a different calibre of staff to handle this new Canada. 
 

[Gian-Luca]

5 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

You think it's a good idea to hand over control of sponsorship and broadcast revenues in exchange for a fixed annual payment out to 2037? Anybody linked to the CSA who doesn't want to renogotiate that deal and dispense with the services of the clique that pushed it through needs their head examined. There was no need to have anything like the CSB deal in place if the launch of CanPL had been handled differently.

Given that people who are "pro-CSB" within the CSA are in favour/interested in negotiation, it should be abundantly obvious that thinking that the deal should be negotiated and being "anti-CSB" are two completely separate things. Being "anti" something means you are are against or opposed to that thing, rather than simply wanting aspects of something to be slightly re-arranged.

[dyslexic nam]

1 minute ago, Gian-Luca said:

Given that people who are "pro-CSB" within the CSA are in favour/interested in negotiation, it should be abundantly obvious that thinking that the deal should be negotiated and being "anti-CSB" are two completely separate things. Being "anti" something means you are are against or opposed to that thing, rather than simply wanting aspects of something to be slightly re-arranged.

I am pretty sure (N - 1) people realize this where (N = everyone).  

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

1 hour ago, Gian-Luca said:

Given that people who are "pro-CSB" within the CSA are in favour/interested in negotiation, ...

Doesn't seem that long ago that the CSB deal was being defended to the hilt by some on here but then Nick Bontis resigned and the goalposts shifted on what it meant to be pro-establishment on these issues. The problem Charmaine Crooks has at this point is that she has been around in CSA terms since 2013 and was therefore very much part of the clique that agreed to the original terms and allowed things to reach the point they did by not rocking the boat. The provincial associations have most of the votes in a CSA AGM context AFAIA and a proposal for increased registration levy fees appeared to be what was the final straw for them. What they want will likely be what shapes what happens next.

Edited April 21, 2023 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[zeelaw]

10 hours ago, Gian-Luca said:

now that it's being officially reported that it's the men (rather than the CSA) are not yet on board with the pay equity 

It was so clear they weren't all on board. Despite Sinclair telling the Heritage Committee they were.... 😐

[CanSoccfan11]

If the men were on board it would have been signed by now imo.  It was pretty obvious they weren't on board.

[TOcanadafan]

1 hour ago, Gian-Luca said:

Given that people who are "pro-CSB" within the CSA are in favour/interested in negotiation, it should be abundantly obvious that thinking that the deal should be negotiated and being "anti-CSB" are two completely separate things. Being "anti" something means you are are against or opposed to that thing, rather than simply wanting aspects of something to be slightly re-arranged.

It isn’t clear in the article… the candidate could be ‘anti’ the current deal and not any deal.

 

Edited April 21, 2023 by TOcanadafan

[narduch]

59 minutes ago, zeelaw said:

It was so clear they weren't all on board. Despite Sinclair telling the Heritage Committee they were.... 😐

Seems to have been pretty obvious from the beginning in June of last year.

[Unnamed Trialist]

Rick Westhead silences any truth about deals, does not update articles on the deal for Qatar, takes random pot-shots, washes over discrepancies between the women and men, and other differences inside each respective camp, to favour his editorial line. And this in spite of contsantly citing unnamed sources close to the main agents who illuminate the issues only when convenient to him. So he has inside information, they trust him, and he doesn't betray these sources by reporting the truth, lord forbid.

This then is the tone that is set for the constant online ranting and emotional pleas with little substance we are hearing on social media. And directly contributes to washing over the main issues and creating a skewed reading of the tensions and conflicts at hand.

Edited April 21, 2023 by Unnamed Trialist

[Shway]

Okay so the CSB will change their deal, but even with that the end doesn't seem near. The pay equity vs pay equality civil war is still going on.