The Importance of the Players vs CSA Pay Dispute

[CanadaFan123]

1 hour ago, Big_M said:

As said, WX will now scramble to try to have a cba in place with what bontis wanted to give them before another president possibly comes in and says no to equity

CANADA SOCCER AND THE WOMEN’S NATIONAL TEAM PLAYERS AGREE ON INTERIM FUNDING AGREEMENT

So, reading between the lines:

This agreement is contingent on the men agreeing to a deal that permits the women’s deal. Excellent bit of maneuvering by both parties and now the men are left in an awkward spot. 

[red card]

From Platt on One Soccer Today, the new president elected in 2023 would only serve to 2024. To be nominated, you have to serve on board for 1 full term. So, pool is limited.

I believe 2 or 3 spots are open but the future prez will come these people (unless there are rule changes approved):

https://www.canadasoccer.com/about-landing-page/board-of-director-old/

Platt also said that the CSB deal wasn't properly voted on by the board was factually incorrect reporting.

[Watchmen]

2 hours ago, Ansem said:

Also, why isnt CPL starting a women's league now? They can't until Project 8 thing either works or doesn't. Damn of you do, damned if you don't. Starting a league to challenge Project 8 would be a PR nightmare

Project 8 was started because the CPL wasn't doing anything.  I'm not saying the CPL/CSB should or shouldn't have started a league, but let's not try to blame them not starting one on Project 8.

[Ansem]

1 minute ago, Watchmen said:

Project 8 was started because the CPL wasn't doing anything.  I'm not saying the CPL/CSB should or shouldn't have started a league, but let's not try to blame them not starting one on Project 8.

Rollins said that this was incorrect. They were working on it post lockdown but things weren't going fast enough for them. 

The league operated 3 years out of 4 during a pandemic, 2 years in lockdown. Year 1 was normal and last year gradually went back to normal.

CPL would have never launched in the middle of a pandemic. Refusing to work with CSB is beyond unreasonable and it feels tied to the whole CanWNT vs CSB issue and the perception they are being treated unfairly in my opinion.

Hopefully they get the answers they are looking for in that parliamentary inquiry and start working with CSB. Otherwise, I don't buy they'll launch independently in 2025 on their own 

[Ansem]

On 3/1/2023 at 4:57 PM, Kent said:

I think what @RS is saying is, by how much? Currently MLS teams are paying 1.5x what CPL teams are paying. You are saying that's not fair, which raises the question, what would be fair? You could repeat the exact same quote of yours above if the MLS teams were paying 2x, or 5x, or 10x, or 1000x. If MLS still doesn't have fair roster rules, your argument is saying that they should pay more than they already are, with no regard for how much more. If MLS teams are paying 5 million dollars, but the roster rules are still unfair, then I guess there is nothing extreme in suggesting they have to pay more.

I can finally answer your question more accurately

According to US Soccer

https://cdn.ussoccer.com/-/media/project/ussf/governance/2022/by-laws/202223_ussf-policies.ashx?la=en-us&rev=21d73fd9a4df43a1b96ea9f2e0773960&hash=314DB53051AEA6000FFEC0D584497312

Theses are the fees in US Dollars

MLS fees

--> $830k for all 26 US-based clubs

-->Each US-based club pays $2k

 

USL Championship fees

 

 

USL League 1, MLS Next Pro, NISA

 

 

Indoor Pro League fees 

 

Canada?

With the exchange rate

If you charge the same as US Soccer in Canadian dollars

• MLS -->~$48,000/club + ~$2,717 for each clubs
• CPL -->~$27,000/club  + ~$2,717 for each clubs

I think MLS should be charged double CPL's fee at a bare minimum starting at $54,000/club (USD$~39.7k) + $5,434 (USD$3,999k) for each clubs.

• The fee should increase at a faster pace yearly until reciprocity is implemented. Then I'd bring it down in line with CPL.

Personally I'd start at a X2.5 rate but it get there eventually if there's no movement on rosters. For those who'll accuse me of being "anti-MLS or a hater" this is way way less drastic than Montagliani pulling all 3 out of the league, wouldn't you agree? 😉

Heck we start at triple 🤣

Hope that's more clear

[Aird25]

2 hours ago, red card said:

From Platt on One Soccer Today, the new president elected in 2023 would only serve to 2024. To be nominated, you have to serve on board for 1 full term. So, pool is limited.

I believe 2 or 3 spots are open but the future prez will come these people (unless there are rule changes approved):

https://www.canadasoccer.com/about-landing-page/board-of-director-old/

Platt also said that the CSB deal wasn't properly voted on by the board was factually incorrect reporting.

Provincial organizations playing no part now, even though they’ve been integral in everything to date. And yet another correction on a Westhead report I believe. What a mess. 

Edited March 3, 2023 by Aird25

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

4 hours ago, red card said:

...Platt also said that the CSB deal wasn't properly voted on by the board was factually incorrect reporting...

Would we expect a Onesoccer employee to say otherwise? Former CSA board members have claimed that it is the case. Maybe the hearings in Ottawa will get to the bottom of it.

https://www.tsn.ca/world-cup-bonus-fight-exposes-battles-over-canada-soccer-transparency-governance-1.1824428

...Canada Soccer’s board discussed the prospective deal with CSB during a September 2018 board meeting. Fequet said Bontis joined the meeting via conference call from Aruba.

According to Fequet, several board members told Bontis and Reed that the board wanted a number of questions answered before they would approve the contract. But three months later, when the board reconvened in December 2018, Bontis insisted that the board had approved the deal.

When Fequet said requests made by the board were outstanding and asked for a review of the meeting minutes from September, board members were told that an executive assistant had not made an audio recording of that meeting because of equipment problems...

Edited March 3, 2023 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[Shway]

14 hours ago, Ansem said:

 

They took down the video quick.

[Ivan]

15 hours ago, Big_M said:

As said, WX will now scramble to try to have a cba in place with what bontis wanted to give them before another president possibly comes in and says no to equity

CANADA SOCCER AND THE WOMEN’S NATIONAL TEAM PLAYERS AGREE ON INTERIM FUNDING AGREEMENT

And, I am assuming that since the government chose to get involved in pay equity between the soccer playing men and women, they will next move on to other sports?

The Canadian women's basketball team will get the same resources as the men's team with all their NBA players?

The women's hockey team will get the same resources as the NHL players when they go to world championships and such?

And most importantly, surely the women's U20 team will get the same resources and sponsorship money that the world Junior team will get?

Yeah, won't hold my breath.

[Shway]

1 minute ago, Ivan said:

And, I am assuming that since the government chose to get involved in pay equity between the soccer playing men and women, they will next move on to other sports?

The Canadian women's basketball team will get the same resources as the men's team with all their NBA players?

The women's hockey team will get the same resources as the NHL players when they go to world championships and such?

And most importantly, surely the women's U20 team will get the same resources and sponsorship money that the world Junior team will get?

Yeah, won't hold my breath.

This is actually a really good question. It seems cynical, but it is a very logical question.

[eramosat]

Here's how I wish this tawdry and useless affair could be characterized for all Canadians.  It's how I see it now, hope I am not too far wrong:

-----------------

CANMNT initiated this demoralizing story by insisting they be paid for playing.  Mostly for their success at qualifying for the men's World Cup.  Any other motives they had seem to be absent.  Not saying they are to blame for the story coming to light...only that they fired the first shot.

CSA perpetuated the story by failing to size up the situation properly, and respond to the CANMNT's wishes adequately.

CANWNT piled on when the first 2 parties' feuding failed to acknowledge their own wishes for equal, or better, treatment from a funding perspective.  Not clear even after all this time if they also want to be paid for playing, or would be happy for funding equality, or other equality.

CANMNT muddied the waters by expressing half-hearted sympathy for the CANWNT's desires, and fully placing the blame for the entire situation on CSA, and an unfair deal with CSB.  Their POV is not believably unified.

CSA continued to perpetuate the story by failing to size up the situation properly, and coming fully clean about their agreement with CSB, and it's attributes.

The CSA deal with CSB has been generally trashed by both the CANWNT and the CANMNT.  No one has publicly come it's defence yet, as it seems to have a lot of completely laudable attributes and effects.

All parties show a great willingness to march to the beat of their own drum.  And little willingness to compromise.

--------------

I still maintain that anytime we fans get into the $$$ side of things, it's mostly pointless and disheartening.  Who can disagree, when this thread started with a relatively simple title of "Players vs CSA Pay Dispute"? Does the saga continue to have anything to meaningfully do with the original motivations expressed by the players?  No, I do not think so, it's a hopeless clusterf**k by now.

 

 

[Metro]

11 hours ago, Ansem said:

Rollins said that this was incorrect. They were working on it post lockdown but things weren't going fast enough for them. 

The league operated 3 years out of 4 during a pandemic, 2 years in lockdown. Year 1 was normal and last year gradually went back to normal.

CPL would have never launched in the middle of a pandemic. Refusing to work with CSB is beyond unreasonable and it feels tied to the whole CanWNT vs CSB issue and the perception they are being treated unfairly in my opinion.

Hopefully they get the answers they are looking for in that parliamentary inquiry and start working with CSB. Otherwise, I don't buy they'll launch independently in 2025 on their own 

What is missing in this discussion is what exactly were the requirements imposed on the CSB in the CSB/CSA Agreement regarding starting up a women's league, if any.  Unless this has been disclosed and I missed it.

[Califax]

It's funny, I have completely tapped out on this. 

I reached that point where I've stopped learning about updates and no longer care. They're all to blame. 

It's peak voter apathy.

 

Edited March 3, 2023 by Califax

[Ivan]

9 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Would we expect a Onesoccer employee to say otherwise? Former CSA board members have claimed that it is the case. Maybe the hearings in Ottawa will get to the bottom of it.

https://www.tsn.ca/world-cup-bonus-fight-exposes-battles-over-canada-soccer-transparency-governance-1.1824428

...Canada Soccer’s board discussed the prospective deal with CSB during a September 2018 board meeting. Fequet said Bontis joined the meeting via conference call from Aruba.

According to Fequet, several board members told Bontis and Reed that the board wanted a number of questions answered before they would approve the contract. But three months later, when the board reconvened in December 2018, Bontis insisted that the board had approved the deal.

When Fequet said requests made by the board were outstanding and asked for a review of the meeting minutes from September, board members were told that an executive assistant had not made an audio recording of that meeting because of equipment problems...

Always two sides to every story Ozzie.  Nothing wrong with Platt telling the other side, as I'm sure he's not just making shit up to plug his employers.

[Bison44]

Is this the same Fequet who lost the VP election to Bontis in summer of 2018?  The same guy who was on CSA board for many years and who couldnt possibly have an axe to grind??  Why does it not surprise me that bird droppings (and Westhead) believes every word of that account.  

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

Would have thought people should have sufficient English language comprehension skills to be able to grasp that the last sentence I wrote implies that it is an open question that needs to be investigated and resolved to find out which side is telling the truth, but apparently I need to be told that there are two sides to every story. Whatever, bud.

2 hours ago, Metro said:

What is missing in this discussion is what exactly were the requirements imposed on the CSB in the CSB/CSA Agreement regarding starting up a women's league, if any.  Unless this has been disclosed and I missed it.

Suspect this is the angle the federal politicians are actually most interested in. The optics of having funds flowing from sponsorships associated with the CWNT to the investors in a league that is doing diddlysquat to run a women's pro division that the CWNT players could play in are where Montagliani and Bontis really messed up big time back in 2018.

Some posters don't seem to grasp beyond that if the CSA is sending men's and women's teams to World Cups in back to back years, it's pretty difficult to justify giving one lot way more money than the other lot in 2023, because it's ultimately the CSA's decision how to spend the revenues it receives some of which come from the federal government.

[Bison44]

It is hilarious that the same guys who think it wasnt a smart idea to have an idependent national mens league now slam CPL/CSB for not starting up 2 leagues...a mens and womens league.  He drones on and on about how the men should have stayed under the american umbrella, worked within the existing system, but for some reason now he thinks the women should have a CDN pro league?? Now it that a real opinion or just his usual back handed way of trying to bash the CPL using this equality/equity argument as a club?  

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

13 hours ago, Bison44 said:

It is hilarious that the same guys who think it wasnt a smart idea to have an idependent national mens league now slam CPL/CSB for not starting up 2 leagues...a mens and womens league...

Normally I would just ignore this guy but this is a complete bald faced lie. I had no problem whatsoever with there being a national pro league. What I got a barrage of personal abuse for with no moderator intervention to ban the posters who were repeatedly making disgusting ad hominen attacks against me was that CanPL should find a way to work with MLS on affiliates and go with a lower budget so there was a better chance that the league would survive.

Five years on from the CSB deal being signed and things have gone so wonderfully that both the CMNT and CWNT are threatening to go on strike and CSA officials are being called in by federal politicians to justify their actions where the CSB deal is concerned in gender equity terms. A lower budget approach closer to what the Easton Report recommended could have avoided this fiasco entirely.

Edited March 4, 2023 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[Califax]

18 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Normally I would just ignore this guy but this is a complete bald faced lie. I had no problem whatsoever with there being a national pro league. What I got a barrage of personal abuse for with no moderator intervention to ban the posters who were repeatedly making disgusting ad hominen attacks against me was that CanPL should find a way to work with MLS on affiliates and go with a lower budget so there was a better chance that the league would surive.

Five years on from the CSB deal being signed and things have gone so wonderfully that both the CMNT and CWNT are threatening to go on strike and CSA officials are being called in by federal politicians to justify their actions where the CSB deal is concerned in gender equity terms. A lower budget approach closer to what the Easton Report recommended could have avoided this fiasco entirely.

I get that, but covid happened. And inflation happened. And even if those things hadn't happened, being seen as a subset of MLS was never going to be acceptable as a pre-requisite to hosting the World Cup, right? (I'm honestly asking, it's my opinion though. 

Also as a long time political staffer, the politicians aren't there 'cause it's bad, they're there cause it's a headline and we're close to an election. That's the part of this that drives me nuts. It's fucking theatre. 

 

[Bison44]

Bald faced lie???             " CanPL should find a way to work with MLS on affiliates "

Isnt that just what I said you said?  You just reiterated you thought CPL should have worked with MLS, work with US soccer etc to bring in affiliates instead of just doing our own league with our own rules as we see fit.  Maybe they should have, maybe it would have worked out better, but you have been pushing that for years...years...and then call liar liar and claim to be a victim of attacks when someone brings it up.  At least dont go all Scarlet Ohara when we all know what you proclaimed we should have done instead of starting an idependent nationwide mens league.

[Aird25]

2 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

A lower budget approach closer to what the Easton Report recommended could have avoided this fiasco entirely.

I don't know if you can say that. There would probably be even less sponsorship money around if CPL was any lower budget than it is now, and we might not even have a media deal. Players might not bother striking at all if there was no money to fight for. The fact that there may be some money now seems to be the main reason why they've decided to strike now

Edited March 3, 2023 by Aird25

[shermanator]

Looks like Dino Rossi is running for the Board of Directors. One of the few people in this country who is worthy of the role IMO.

Of course, his decade of building up both men's and women's high level amateur leagues is ignored and rather he is portrayed as "commissioner of CSB-owned League1 Canada" by Westhead, and smeared by Steph Labbe, who oddly enough runs a club in one of the league Rossi oversees.

If I were Rossi I would rip up my application right now. It doesn't matter what he's done for the game in this country he's got the "CSB" tag and that will make him a villain in the eyes of many. 

 

[zeelaw]

Deleted

Edited March 4, 2023 by zeelaw
want to delete duh

[SF]

Sounds like a very qualified guy, but he would have to resign as CSB commissioner. The conflict of interest issue would be very real - in fact, might be so real that his candidacy is too complicated to begin with. Ignoring this would be as bad as going with the status quo.

[CanadaFan123]

20 minutes ago, SF said:

Sounds like a very qualified guy, but he would have to resign as CSB commissioner. The conflict of interest issue would be very real - in fact, might be so real that his candidacy is too complicated to begin with. Ignoring this would be as bad as going with the status quo.

He is not CSB commissioner, he is commissioner of League 1 Ontario, which is CSB owned. 
 

The comments coming from one side of this (I.e. Stephanie Labbe) are so disingenuous, it’s hard to even take them seriously at this stage.