The Importance of the Players vs CSA Pay Dispute

[Gian-Luca]

46 minutes ago, SoCalTransport said:

https://www.tsn.ca/soccer/rick-westhead-four-women-s-national-soccer-team-players-to-testify-in-ottawa-1.1925650

🤔

This hearing sounds more and more like it's a self-appointed trial and an inquisition. What exactly is the scope/purpose of this hearing?  It seems to be changing daily, with the committee making things up as they go along. If it's just a free-for-all about how the CSA in general have been conducting themselves during the most successful period in Canadian soccer history (which of course the CSA can't take any credit for), shouldn't they be calling members of the men's team and also the CSB? Shouldn't they now be calling in Charmaine Crooks? It's like this is a trial being personally conducted on the say-so or personal recommendation of Rick Westhead.

[Gian-Luca]

53 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

I am going to say something that may make me the target of criticism - and if so, so be it. Since all of this internal conflict has begun (and some of the tensions pre-date the current “Westhead-era” events) I have lost a lot of my interest in following the women’s team. I have been a staunch supporter of the CWNT for a long time, and maybe it is the poolside drinks talking, but the us vs them tone of much of this discussion has led to a decline in my support/interest.  Any other  time I would have watched all 3 SheBelieves games and been cheering the women on passionately.  This time?  I caught one half of footy over the course of the tournament.  Maybe that makes me a petty asshole but it is what it is.  Then again maybe i just need to sober up.  

The players come and go, but the team is always there and the most important thing for me is that it's the nation's team. But I will say this - it is starting to get difficult to cheer for certain individuals on the team.

[shermanator]

58 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

I am going to say something that may make me the target of criticism - and if so, so be it. Since all of this internal conflict has begun (and some of the tensions pre-date the current “Westhead-era” events) I have lost a lot of my interest in following the women’s team. I have been a staunch supporter of the CWNT for a long time, and maybe it is the poolside drinks talking, but the us vs them tone of much of this discussion has led to a decline in my support/interest.  Any other  time I would have watched all 3 SheBelieves games and been cheering the women on passionately.  This time?  I caught one half of footy over the course of the tournament.  Maybe that makes me a petty asshole but it is what it is.  Then again maybe i just need to sober up.  

Nope, I'm in the same boat. During world cup qualifiers and leading into the World Cup there was an element of "what about us" that came from the WNT at times that really frustrated me. 

Does that mean I'm going to stop supporting the WNT? Absolutely not. But I'm also not going to go out of my way to watch games that don't really matter anymore; the She Believes Cup being a good example.

The whole pitting of one group vs another throughout this situation is incredibly off putting. WNT vs MNT, MNT vs CPL, WNT vs CPL. All it does is completely piss away the little bit of momentum the game was starting to develop in this country. 

James Sharman put it well in the Footy Prime podcast shortly after the most recent statements came out when he said (and I'm paraphrasing) "I'm so fucking sick and tired of talking about money in football". Honestly, I don't give a shit about any of this and just want to go watch Cavalry play in person again with dozens of my friends.

Edited March 2, 2023 by shermanator

[Metro]

2 minutes ago, Gian-Luca said:

This hearing sounds more and more like it's a self-appointed trial and an inquisition. What exactly is the scope/purpose of this hearing?  It seems to be changing daily, with the committee making things up as they go along. If it's just a free-for-all about how the CSA in general have been conducting themselves during the most successful period in Canadian soccer history (which of course the CSA can't take any credit for), shouldn't they be calling members of the men's team and also the CSB? Shouldn't they now be calling in Charmaine Crooks? It's like this is a trial being personally conducted on the say-so or personal recommendation of Rick Westhead.

I'm confused as well.  It's possible that what you mention suggests that this hearing is for a more limited purpose, and that is, are the government funds going to where they should be going.  Hence not all parties need to speak at the hearing.

[Ansem]

 

If a deal like Churchill Falls is still a thing - I don't know how they hope to do away with CSB.
 

Ultimately, they'll have no choice but to compromise and start earning their money by winning prize money from FIFA tournaments

Edited March 2, 2023 by Ansem

[SoCalTransport]

35 minutes ago, Gian-Luca said:

The players come and go, but the team is always there and the most important thing for me is that it's the nation's team. But I will say this - it is starting to get difficult to cheer for certain individuals on the team.

I agree, I really don't like that Beckie had ulterior motives when she took the broadcasting gig in Qatar.

[Ansem]

2 minutes ago, SoCalTransport said:

I agree, I really don't like that Beckie had ulterior motives when she took the broadcasting gig in Qatar.

Who can forget Davies goal.

Us naughty fans needed to be reminded that it's not ok to think that his goal was the most important in Canadian Soccer history.

[Watchmen]

I think at this point, I'll just wait for the inquiry tomorrow. See what comes out of it.

[Gian-Luca]

59 minutes ago, Metro said:

I'm confused as well.  It's possible that what you mention suggests that this hearing is for a more limited purpose, and that is, are the government funds going to where they should be going.  Hence not all parties need to speak at the hearing.

I originally understood the purpose of the hearing was to address the distribution of funding given the women were striking (or attempting to) by pointing that the men got superior staffing & flight options for the Men's World Cup in comparison to the women's She Believes Cup (go figure) and the lack of a women's home friendly before the WWC. Any simpleton on the street should be able to explain (or figure out) the difference between the men's World Cup & the She Believes Cup (not to mention the funding differences provided by FIFA between the respective World Cups) so that just would have left the CSA to explain why their have been budget cuts, as being the only thing about this hearing that wasn't a gigantic waste of time and taxpayer money.

But the women testifying at this trial (which is what it seemingly has become) doesn't fit in with that...they can't speak to how the funding since they themselves keep complaining and claiming that they have no idea where it goes. If they are testifying that Bontis didn't speak to them very nicely during the illegal strike discussion ahead of the She Believes Cup so he needs to go.......that might not have been nice of him, but at this point who cares since he's gone and isn't an issue going forward? If they are hearing them out so that they can impose themselves into the negotiations themselves, who is giving them the right to do that? These are politicians, not professional arbitrators. If its now meant to be an ongoing Spanish Inquisition style watching brief on the CSA, it already suggests that the committee members are partisan and biased to a particular viewpoint.

It's difficult to see anything good coming out of this, although it's also unclear as to what (other than the ability to compel volunteers to testify against their will) what the powers and scope of this committee actually are.

[Gian-Luca]

59 minutes ago, Ansem said:

 

If a deal like Churchill Falls is still a thing - I don't know how they hope to do away with CSB.
 

Ultimately, they'll have no choice but to compromise and start earning their money by winning prize money from FIFA tournaments

"Canada Business Soccer" - FFS, they couldn't even get the name right.

[Aird25]

1 hour ago, Ansem said:

 

If a deal like Churchill Falls is still a thing - I don't know how they hope to do away with CSB.
 

Ultimately, they'll have no choice but to compromise and start earning their money by winning prize money from FIFA tournaments

I feel a bit like a parrot asking the same thing over and over and over again, but what is it about the CSB deal that's imposing 'untenable financial constraints' for the national teams. If they're also asking for transparency, what are the players aware of that I am not?

[SpursFlu]

This is all about getting rid of the CPL. A national anything doesnt fit the agenda, especially one that isn't controlled by the usual characters 

 

They just wrapped it up in all the flags and the Howdydodats fall for it every time

 

 

Edited March 2, 2023 by SpursFlu

[Bison44]

13 minutes ago, Aird25 said:

I feel a bit like a parrot asking the same thing over and over and over again, but what is it about the CSB deal that's imposing 'untenable financial constraints' for the national teams. If they're also asking for transparency, what are the players aware of that I am not?

Seems like the CSB deal wasnt constraining the national teams for the first few years it existed.  Is it just me or did all this contraining start when the men qualified for the WC and the 10million payment was in play for whoever got their greedy little paws on it first??

[gator]

2 minutes ago, SpursFlu said:

This is all about getting rid of the CPL

They just wrapped it up in all the flags and the dumb dumbs fall for it every time

Sadly I have to agree with you here, whether that is the motive or not I think that is the outcome we are going to see, with the women's "what about us" and the men's "minor league" statement this long time Voyageur is becoming very jaded and if this does take the CPL down, I am out!

[narduch]

3 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

Seems like the CSB deal wasnt constraining the national teams for the first few years it existed.  Is it just me or did all this contraining start when the men qualified for the WC and the 10million payment was in play for whoever got their greedy little paws on it first??

I don't think the men's players really care about anything other than getting their World Cup payout. I do think someone is whispering in their ears claiming that the CSB deal is a windfall for the CSB guys. Whether that is true or not is another story.

The women's gripes seem more valid. That's how I read it. They already had a CBA so it was never about the money.

[zeelaw]

5 minutes ago, gator said:

Sadly I have to agree with you here, whether that is the motive or not I think that is the outcome we are going to see, with the women's "what about us" and the men's "minor league" statement this long time Voyageur is becoming very jaded and if this does take the CPL down, I am out!

I don't know if the motive is to kill CSB/CPL, but if it results in it... I think I'll struggle to ever support or watch CanWNT again.  Maybe that's "telling on myself" but I'll happily be proven wrong after this hearing.

[Aird25]

5 minutes ago, gator said:

Sadly I have to agree with you here, whether that is the motive or not I think that is the outcome we are going to see, with the women's "what about us" and the men's "minor league" statement this long time Voyageur is becoming very jaded and if this does take the CPL down, I am out!

Regardless of how this all plays out, I have a hard time envisioning any current MNT player ever being given a late career playing opportunity, or coaching opportunity in the CPL. They've burned that bridge, which is so, so unfortunate for Canadian soccer. That's the type of scenario we need. The players must know something I don't, right?

[Ansem]

16 minutes ago, SpursFlu said:

This is all about getting rid of the CPL. A national anything doesnt fit the agenda, especially one that isn't controlled by the usual characters 

 

They just wrapped it up in all the flags and the Howdydodats fall for it every time

 

 

I think it's about getting paid first and foremost because "they carried" the program - and everything else can get the scraps.

I understand some of their grievances but feels a bit selfish from my perspective - the youth national teams and youth players have it far far worse than them. Killing CSB means risking pulling the plug on League 1 Canada women's side which will be crucial in getting those girls exposure to move to bigger and better things.

Same for the men who made this a CanMNT vs CPL thing.

[YorkRegionFan]

The 'Us' versus 'Them' mentality is very destructive for the growth of the sport in Canada.  The CWMNT comes across as very self serving.

These people seem to forget that having a domestic league is one of the pre-requisites for hosting the World Cup in 2026. If the CPL folds as a result of these shenanigans, our role as host and automatic berth may be jeopardized for 2026.

[Watchmen]

19 minutes ago, YorkRegionFan said:

These people seem to forget that having a domestic league is one of the pre-requisites for hosting the World Cup in 2026. If the CPL folds as a result of these shenanigans, our role as host and automatic berth may be jeopardized for 2026.

It won't be. It's already announced for Toronto and Vancouver and major organizations hate changing any venue after it's been announced.  John Furlong, head of the Vancouver Olympic committee, had an interesting discussion about it one time. Basically, agree to whatever they want and then change anything you want after (within reason). They won't pull the event.

[Watchmen]

There's quite a few threads in here about the $10m WC money, but I'll point out the women have also been asking for some transparency on the Own the Podium funding they did earn and the CSA hasn't clarified what they did with it.

[CanadaFan123]

3 hours ago, Ansem said:

 

If a deal like Churchill Falls is still a thing - I don't know how they hope to do away with CSB.
 

Ultimately, they'll have no choice but to compromise and start earning their money by winning prize money from FIFA tournaments

Interesting that the XNT didn’t release a statement.

The irony is that the best chance of getting more funding for the women’s team is through equity that would see the men’s team funded more so that they can get said results. 

The fools, whoever they are, can’t even release a professional statement.  I wonder who is actually behind this on the men’s side.

[Big_M]

As said, WX will now scramble to try to have a cba in place with what bontis wanted to give them before another president possibly comes in and says no to equity

CANADA SOCCER AND THE WOMEN’S NATIONAL TEAM PLAYERS AGREE ON INTERIM FUNDING AGREEMENT

Edited March 2, 2023 by Big_M

[CanadaFan123]

4 hours ago, grigorio said:

Judging by who’s appeared in the most Westhead articles and who pushes the most out (I think he’s their union rep or something?) it’s probably MAK and a core group of others. Which, is kind of ironic given he may not be a member of the CanMNT for much longer unless he shapes up in a hurry.  

The obvious ones seem to be MAK, Johnston and Osorio. 

 

[Ansem]

I agree with this debate here. They aren't going to find much on the CSB side. A lot of the problems is within the CSA and the Nike deal is a much bigger red flag to me.

Also, why isnt CPL starting a women's league now? They can't until Project 8 thing either works or doesn't. Damn of you do, damned if you don't. Starting a league to challenge Project 8 would be a PR nightmare